ACTS retreat

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Swizzlestick,
You seem to have a really good attitude about your husband’s experience with ACTS, although it has caused you some grief, as you described. I admire your attitude. I hope that it isn’t hard for you as he joins the team and participates in the time-consuming weekly meetings. Earlier you had mentioned that the post-ACTS retreat activities had taken him away from the family and that was difficult. I felt the same way, but maybe had stronger feelings about it. My kids also resented Dad’s time away, because their time with him is precious. He already has a very demanding job and many recreational pursuits. It didn’t feel like something that was good for our family, even though hubby enjoyed it.

Also worth mentioning: when my husband got back from the retreat he was on a different page than me with regards to religion. And he would not explain how he got there. Even if I had agreed to go on the next reatreat - it wouldn’t have been possible since I was nursing a baby. So I asked him, “Am I suppposed to live in the dark here, not understanding you, until such time as I can go - which could be a year from now?” This is just not a good system. (sidenote: one of my friends did go while still nursing a toddler, and she pumped over the weekend, but was made to feel self -conscious about it from other retreatants)

My huband was also asked to be on the team, but he declined. The “friend” who called him to ask him to be on team told my husband that he was one of only two ACTS retreatants who had not yet “given back.” The friend said, “I know the situation with your wife, but I really want you to consider being on team.” It was a really guilt-driven phone call. Of course, I was offended. This ACTS member/organizer had expectations of my husband and was not sensitive to our family issues. Perhaps it should be explained to new members what the time committment really is, between the initial retreat, post-ACTS activities, team preparation, and future retreats.

Well, thank you for your initial post and reply. I have enjoyed this discussion. I think I will discuss my concerns with our parish priest so that perhaps he can address the issue with the next retreat. I would really like to spare others the pain that I have experienced.

Additionally, we have begun attending a different church - not Catholic. Although we will remain members at our parish and continue to send our children to school there - it has been good therapy for my husband and I to explore other Christian faiths which miraculously have put us back on “the same page” when it comes to religion. I personally have discovered that I enjoy the gospels immensely when they are interpretted by women pastors. The gospels suddenly seem brand new, relevant, and inspiring. Of course, this female interpretation is unavailable in the Catholic church. I have also found other Christian faiths less concerned with following “rules” and more focused on delivering the message of Jesus Christ. Refreshing!
 
naturegirl, your posts really have me thinking because of all the similarities we share. I don’t know that I believe in coincidences. I think that what we call coincidences are God’s work and perfect timing. And I cannot help but wonder right now what it is He is trying to tell you. Or me. Or both of us. But, I am paying attention.

My husband has been involved with ACTS for a year now. He has been involved with ACTS activities as they ebb and flow, but nothing consistent. As I indicated, my husband is now on team for the next men’s ACTS retreat for our parish. That means he will be attending a lot of Masses and regular meetings with the guys once again. He will, of course, also attend the actual retreat. All of these things are things he will not share with me at all. That means that the potential for all the negative feelings from a year ago to be stirred up—the hurt, the bewilderment, the anger, the confusion, the frustration, the grief—is much greater than it has been for some time. My intention is to pray and try to remain positive and happy and supportive and not let those feelings get the better of me. But, I wonder if this timing of you posting about ACTS might be something more, considering all the little similarities in our two situations. Also, the recent activity from others on this thread makes me wonder too.

Like you, I feel that the ACTS set-up is flawed because of the issues created with spouses, so perhaps this isn’t a nudge for just you and me. Considering that we as Catholics are already part of the family in Christ and we all are already brothers and sisters in Christ, I do have to work to accept the exclusive nature of the ACTS community. Perhaps this is something for the entire ACTS community to look at and consider as well. Perhaps a change is in order.

I don’t know if I can help you or not. I do understand your feelings because I shared them, though perhaps your feelings were stronger than mine since you and your husband sought counseling to deal with the situation. On the other hand, perhaps they are not any stronger, perhaps you just deal with things differently than I do and we each found a way to heal from our hurts and work through them. Either way, perhaps God is working in us now. I will try to listen to Him to find out what He may be trying to tell me, you, us, the ACTS community. I will continue to try to keep working through my own feelings to resolve this and find true peace about the ACTS community.
 
naturegirl, it looks like I was working on my last post to you when you posted your last post to me. Another “coincidence,” perhaps?🙂

I don’t really have any more time right now, but I will say that it saddens me to read that you and your husband have left the Catholic Church. I will pray for you, your husband and family and I ask that you also pray for me, my husband and family. Please consider coming back Home.

Dona Nobis Pacem
 
I have a little more time now to address your post in a bit more detail. I’ll break it up a bit to make my posts shorter.
naturegirl said:
Swizzlestick,
You seem to have a really good attitude about your husband’s experience with ACTS, although it has caused you some grief, as you described. I admire your attitude. I hope that it isn’t hard for you as he joins the team and participates in the time-consuming weekly meetings. Earlier you had mentioned that the post-ACTS retreat activities had taken him away from the family and that was difficult. I felt the same way, but maybe had stronger feelings about it. My kids also resented Dad’s time away, because their time with him is precious. He already has a very demanding job and many recreational pursuits. It didn’t feel like something that was good for our family, even though hubby enjoyed it. …
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I understand your feelings perfectly, believe me. As far as my attitude, getting here was not an easy thing and I cannot say for sure that I am really at a place just yet that our Lord would choose for me. I am trying very hard to be attentive and figure it out right now. My husband’s ACTS retreat did cause a lot of negative emotions and it was a bit of a rude awakening when I was expecting all positives, sharing and exploring together, and then I got smacked upside the head with those feelings. I’m hoping I’ve worked through everything, but I am flawed like everyone else, so we shall see. I still feel a twinge now and then of some negative emotion when hubby talks to a fellow ACTS retreatant at Church and I have to walk away or when he gets a phone call or e-mail from someone or is involved with something up at Church and I only get vague information about it. It is all positive for him, but I admit that I still hurt sometimes. I think the upcoming ACTS retreat that my husband will be on team for will be a test of just how well I am dealing with it all.
 
naturegirl said:
… Also worth mentioning: when my husband got back from the retreat he was on a different page than me with regards to religion. And he would not explain how he got there. …
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I understand this too, but in my experience, my faith growth and my husband’s faith growth has varied throughout our marriage and it did not always match. Though we are both cradle Catholics, I’ve found that sometimes I was catching up with him. Other times, he was catching up with me. I can deal with the differences. What I didn’t particularly like was being shut out of an exclusive club. I was baffled, confused and hurt at the idea that my husband would join a “subset” of the Church without me. As my previous posts have indicated, I’ve tried to work through my feelings and understand that he can do his own thing and grow in his own way and my feeling threatened by that was a negative that I needed to work through.
naturegirl said:
…My huband was also asked to be on the team, but he declined. The “friend” who called him to ask him to be on team told my husband that he was one of only two ACTS retreatants who had not yet “given back.” The friend said, “I know the situation with your wife, but I really want you to consider being on team.” It was a really guilt-driven phone call. Of course, I was offended. This ACTS member/organizer had expectations of my husband and was not sensitive to our family issues. Perhaps it should be explained to new members what the time committment really is, between the initial retreat, post-ACTS activities, team preparation, and future retreats. …
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This is a very valid point. When my husband decided to go on his ACTS retreat, he had no idea that he would be expected to be involved from then on. He thought it was just a weekend to help him grow in his faith. He found out it was a much bigger commitment than that, but he had no way of knowing beforehand that that would be the case. I do not like that aspect of ACTS because there is no way to know and have the option to decline. Once you’re there, you’re in. That being said, I know that a lot of the men (and ladies) in our ACTS community lead very busy lives with family and children and activities both in and outside our Church community. They choose ACTS as a way for them to be involved and to “give back” to the Church. I don’t find fault with that but I do find fault with the not knowing when going in and committing to an ACTS retreat.

My husband was asked to be on team for another retreat soon after his retreat. He declined because of me and the fact that I was not in a good place about the whole ACTS community at that time. My guess is that he was again asked, maybe more than once, and he has now acquiesced so that he could “give back.”
 
naturegirl said:
…Well, thank you for your initial post and reply. I have enjoyed this discussion. I think I will discuss my concerns with our parish priest so that perhaps he can address the issue with the next retreat. I would really like to spare others the pain that I have experienced. …
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Thank you too for your posts and for the discussion. It helps to know that my reactions and feelings are not way out there, that someone else had a similar response when a spouse attended an ACTS retreat. I too wish I could spare someone pain, but I don’t know how to do that other than to warn them not to expect sharing from their spouse after an ACTS retreat. I’m not sure that that is really helpful, though.🙂
naturegirl said:
… Additionally, we have begun attending a different church - not Catholic. Although we will remain members at our parish and continue to send our children to school there - it has been good therapy for my husband and I to explore other Christian faiths which miraculously have put us back on “the same page” when it comes to religion. I personally have discovered that I enjoy the gospels immensely when they are interpretted by women pastors. The gospels suddenly seem brand new, relevant, and inspiring. Of course, this female interpretation is unavailable in the Catholic church. I have also found other Christian faiths less concerned with following “rules” and more focused on delivering the message of Jesus Christ. Refreshing!
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I view it as a good thing to discuss ACTS with your parish priest and to remain connected with your parish by remaining members and sending your children to school there. As I said before, as a Catholic, it does sadden me to think that cradle Catholics are attending a different church and are exploring different faith options to see what is offered because I personally believe that the Catholic Church offers all that one could ever need. I would encourage you and your husband to come back fully to the Church, but I’ll end with God bless you on your faith journey. I do hope you and your husband arrive back at the Catholic Church soon!
 
SwizzleStick said:
naturegirl, it looks like I was working on my last post to you when you posted your last post to me. Another “coincidence,” perhaps?🙂

I don’t really have any more time right now, but I will say that it saddens me to read that you and your husband have left the Catholic Church. I will pray for you, your husband and family and I ask that you also pray for me, my husband and family. Please consider coming back Home.

Dona Nobis Pacem
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I really appreciate your sentiment here. But, Mike and I don’t feel like we’ve left, exactly - we’re just broadening our horizons - like when you visit a new country and it opens your eyes to different ideas. I’ve spent 8 hours up at the Catholic school this week volunteering and will be back there at mass tomorrow morning - so we’re still very much present. Many of our parish friends are curious about the other churches we’ve been visiting and have expressed interest in accompanying us. One problem with our parish is that our pastor is very pedantic and refuses a lot of reasonable requests, citing some rule or regulation. He is also a dull homilist.

But, back to the ACTS retreat, I wanted to share one thing that saved me about 6 weeks after the retreat, I called one of our close friends who is like the queen of ACTS. In desperation I shared with her some of Mike’s hurtful behavior and explained his reticence to explain what had occurred on the retreat. (Since her husband had gone on the same retreat, she knew everything that had happened.) She was outraged that Mike was behaving like this. She told me to tell him that he was being an idiot, basically. Then she told me exactly what had happened that had affected Mike so deeply - HER husband had told a moving, personal story, that had made MY husband cry. She told me details of her husband’s story, which I really didn’t need, but it was enlightening all the same, and things started making sense to me.

It was a revalation to me that people even shared personal stories - for 6 weeks Mike hadn’t even told me that much! As soon as I told Mike that our friend, an official ACTS representative, thought he was being a jerk, he could suddenly see his mistake. He then opened up and discussed the retreat openly for the first time. I think he just needed official permission to do this, or something. This was not the end of our “issues,” and marital discord, since we were still in different places spiritually, but it was a giant step in the right direction for us.

I wonder, if your husband could start sharing some of his ACTS experiences with you, so that you understand exactly why he enjoys it so much and finds it meaningful, if that might help. I don’t think there’s any good reason for spouses not to be able to discuss it together - confidentiality can be easily protected if he refrains from mentioning people’s names. It should be clear now that you’re not interested in going on the retreat, so he shouldn’t worry about preserving the experience for you! (it took my husband a long time to accept that I wasn’t going on the retreat. Our counselor helped him come to terms with this and try to appreciate how I am different from him, and how we approach worship very differently. I just felt disgusted that it took him so long to believe me when I said I wasn’t interested!)

I wanted to comment on some of your other posts but I better turn in for the night. I’ll check back in tomorrow night.

Mary
 
I have been on a Cursillo but not an ACTS retreat. Some of the comments about ACTS reminds me of Cursillo issues: pressure for the spouse to attend, recruiting pressure, a sense of exclusivity, emotionalism, gifts & letters, etc. Without revealing anything inappropriate, could someone help me understand the difference between Cursillo and ACTS?
 
I have seen similar changes of personality and mindsets of many of the people who attend the ACtS retreats.It seems to affect the ladies more than men. Many have become total fanatics about it, and caused a lot of people to step back for a second look. They have been pushing the new style music into the church, and believe me, while upbeat, it is awful. I am with the lady whose husband made a change after attending the retreat. My wife did the same thing. After thiry years of marriage, I hate to say it, but I feel a divorce fixing to happen. The secrecy, meetings, and recruitment trips remind me of Jim Jones and David Koreth. If I did what she does, I would be accused of cheating or messing around. It has definitely built a hugh wall in our relationship, and I feel there is no way to knock it down. I guess if she feels this is more important than our relationship, so be it.
I am glad I dont believe in a god or saviour, other wise I would have to get nasty with him for destroying our lives.
 
Mattapoisett64 said:
I have been on a Cursillo but not an ACTS retreat. Some of the comments about ACTS reminds me of Cursillo issues: pressure for the spouse to attend, recruiting pressure, a sense of exclusivity, emotionalism, gifts & letters, etc. Without revealing anything inappropriate, could someone help me understand the difference between Cursillo and ACTS?
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The difference does not matter. Cursillo is the umbrella process that all of these have dervied from …there are movements of the Holy Spirit and they are specified to different communities, parishes, age groups.

The actual specifics of differences are not important.
 
agapewolf said:
The difference does not matter. Cursillo is the umbrella process that all of these have dervied from …there are movements of the Holy Spirit and they are specified to different communities, parishes, age groups.

The actual specifics of differences are not important.
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It looks to me these movements confuse emotionalism for spiritualism - out of sharing testimonials.

What ever happened to finding and deepening faith through reason - through theological and philosophical meditations?

All I’ve seen from the ACTS community is emotional commitment, as if emotionalism has become the foundation of their belief. I’ve also seen that emotionalism be easily threatened when an ACT recruiter is turned down or member finds out someone else doesn’t share their new found charismatic enthusiasm for retreat specifics. If the weekend strengthen their faith, wouldn’t you expect them to be more resilient?

Of the hundreds who’ve now attended I’ve yet to hear any one of them express a deepened philosophical understanding coming out of their retreat. Or is this, too, a secret only to be shared within ACTS communities?

Like so much of American/Western culture we want our fast foods and weekends of fast faith too. Emotionalism is faster, easier. Philosophical reasoning takes meditation, deep thought and time to mature.

Probably the biggest mistake I’ve heard from ACTS is the saying “lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord and He will proved.” The mistake is not in the saying but in applying it to materialistic needs and wants. The World can and will let you down where the Spirit will not.
 
agapewolf said:
The difference does not matter. Cursillo is the umbrella process that all of these have dervied from …there are movements of the Holy Spirit and they are specified to different communities, parishes, age groups.

The actual specifics of differences are not important.
Click to expand...
Your highly guarded - not to say dismissive - response to my reasonable question tells me all I need to know (or care to know) about ACTS retreats.
 
Doug50 said:
It looks to me these movements confuse emotionalism for spiritualism - out of sharing testimonials.

What ever happened to finding and deepening faith through reason - through theological and philosophical meditations?

All I’ve seen from the ACTS community is emotional commitment, as if emotionalism has become the foundation of their belief.
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Doug50,
I think the observation you’ve made is very profound. It strikes me as true in my experience, that my husband’s enlightenment was born out of emotionalism. Once I finally figured out that these personal testimonies were given and that one in particular had moved him to the point of tears, I realized that *this *was the reason he was so changed. Did he really feel so much closer to God, or just closer to these guys that he spent time with? He doesn’t often have the opportunity to share/discuss such weighty matters with friends. I don’t know what this had to do with God. The point of our friend’s story wasn’t even, “God helped me through this troubled time,” as much as, “Something horrible happened to me. I survived.” I felt like these testimonies were cheap shots - given with the express purpose of eliciting emotion and empathy from the audience. Then, of course everyone is bonded as a group bc they suddenly know each other’s secrets.

My husband’s change seemed so sudden and abrupt, occurring over one weekend, and to me it reeked of brainwash. It was too fast and too easy. His feelings were certainly strong, and he was 100% certain that he had the meaning of life figured out, but in reality he had never been more confused in his life. I could have helped him sort things out, but he wouldn’t talk to me. His faith has grown and matured tenfold in the year and a half since the retreat - through counseling, discussion with me, and our mutual attendance at different churches.

I also liked the point you made in the last paragraph, Doug50. I found many of the new “truisms” from the retreat to be meaningless cliches that did not ring true with me.
 
I am NOT highly guarded…not in the least, nor am I dismissive. Matt, I have not attended an acts myself, so you “labeling” the acts retreat and dismissing it on my response is ridiculous. I’ve studied these process retreats and I was trying to give you an intellectual answer. really.

The question is really not appropriate here, the differences as I DID answer are about the focus for the different communities and age groups. The particulars don’t really matter in this conversation. Each one is different and needs to be experienced in the place/community/time that it is.

I have studied these process retreats in depth. They are not meant to provide people with a deeper philosophical understanding. They are an evangelizing tool. They are first steps with people. This is for evangelization.

Yes, there is some emotionalism, and unforutnately, when not directed well, this can be misguided. But I want to remind everyone that we are emotional people, and God gave us emotions to bring us closer to him. Its providing the direction necessary to get people to move beyond that and not rely on emotions in their faith that has become the challenge. But a community of people giving witnesses of their lives (which is scriptural) and then showing people in real concrete ways love (which is also scriptural) is not basing on emotionalism. It is an emotional experience…but then some tend to rely on for their faith. This is the part that needs to change.
 
MrAgnostic said:
It has definitely built a hugh wall in our relationship, and I feel there is no way to knock it down. I guess if she feels this is more important than our relationship, so be it.
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to MrAgnostic: I felt the same way as you. I finally had to ask my husband, “Do you love me enough to give up being a part of the ACTS community?” Luckily, he was willing to do this. After everything he put me through in the aftermath of the retreat: withholding his feelings and experience, judging my faith as inferior to his, at one point withdrawing his unconditional love for me unless I went on the retreat, etc, I just couldn’t handle even the mere mention of the word ACTS…let alone allow him time away from our family to spend more time with this community. Nothing in my marriage has ever been as threatening to me as ACTS. And I’m not a possessive person! I give him lots of space to do his own thing. But this community would have been the end of us. I think he realized that, so he relented. However, during therapy I learned that in lieu of ACTS, I needed to allow him the time and opportunity to keep nurturing his newfound enthusiasm for his faith.

For someone who is not religious at all, it would be especially difficult to endure one’s spouse becoming a religious fanatic. I’m trying to appreciate the situation you’re in. I’ve never been a person of unfaltering faith. I have lots of doubts, but in my worst moments I can at least acknowledge that Jesus Christ was a man who lived and had some revolutionary ideas. Maybe you could retain your agnosticism, by not recognizing Jesus as the actual son of God, but still join your wife in learning about the life of Jesus and allowing his example to influence your life. The United Church of Christ, which we’ve been attending lately, has taught me so much about how Jesus was a pacifist who embraced societal outcasts, believed in justice, sacrificed for others, etc. I mean, he was really an amazing person. Maybe you could broker a deal with your wife whereby she relinquishes her ACTS membership, and you offer her something new that would be meaningful to her, like maybe joining her at Mass or something. Do you think any type of compromise could be possible? Another option is to talk to someone you trust who is also in the ACTS community, who might be sympathetic to your plight. (could be hard to find, but then they could talk to her and maybe have an influence) A third option is counseling for the two of you.

Getting back to: giving up the ongoing membership in the ACTS community - it’s not really a lot to ask, considering that most of us got into this without realizing that it was anymore than a weekend retreat. My husband has previously gone on Catholic men’s retreats that simply ended when the weekend was over. He came home with a renewed faith, and that was it. Who knew that ACTS was so completely different? Remind your wife that you never signed up for this! I don’t know how she could show up at the next ACTS event, plop down and announce, “OK, I’m ready to be on team! By the way, I just gave up my marriage for this.” No one would support her in doing that, right? That would be ludicrous! Catholics don’t even believe in divorce!

Well, MrAgnostic, I was moved by your post and I hope that something I’ve said will help you. A 30 year marriage is no small accomplishment. I hope the relations improve! Good luck!
 
To those who are blaming ACTS for marriage problems,

If you have a partner that has attended a retreat and has come back involved and exilrerated. Is it not worth your relationship to just try what has excited your partner?
If you have spent years together why not give back? If you go and do not like it or the people then fine go about your own way.

Is the retreat about emotions yes! What is wrong with that? If a person comes back excited about their faith, church.

I was only luke warm to my religion before I went to the retreat. I now try to be active in my church every way I can. That includes making sure my kids are invlved as well.

I have seen many a great story come from the retreats. I can not say they change a person, but they do help people put church and faith back in their life even if for some for a little while. I would say that is still better than nothing.
 
To those who are blaming ACTS for marriage problems,🙂

If you have a partner that has attended a retreat and has come back involved and exhilarated. Is it not worth your relationship to just try what has excited your partner?
If you have spent years together why not give back? If you go and do not like it or the people then fine go about your own way.

Is the retreat about emotions yes! If a person comes back excited about their faith and church, what is wrong with that?

I was only lukewarm to my religion before I went to the retreat. I now try to be active in my church every way I can. That includes making sure my kids are involved as well.

I have seen many a great story come from the retreats. I can not say they change a person, but they do help people put church and faith back in their life even if for some for a little while. I would say that is still better than nothing.
 
Putting so much emphasis on emotionalism has more to do with do-it-yourself group psychotherapy – it seems to me that has the potential to be dangerous in the hands of armatures. It’s one thing to have a mystical awakening and quite another as to how someone reacts to that awakening emotionally. Like the archbishop whom I quote, one priest’s confession can be an entirely different emotional experience from another’s. That difference is not only true between the priests but it’s also true between confessors. These “processes” are specifically designed to emphasis emotional reactions in the retreatants.

newadvent.org/cathen/15132a.htm
"The doctrine (Lutheran) of justification by faith was an egregious example of putting absolute trust in the assumptions of emotionalism, indeed was the first step towards transferring the basis of faith from the preaching of the word to the so-called testimony of experience. "
 
My biggest problem with this whole acts thing is that it seems to instill into thr retreatants to stand their ground and dont give in. FYI, I was born a Catholic, got kicked out of Catholic school in the first grade for almost biting a nuns finger off. Back then, no one pulled my ears, they were big enough. I attended all the required CCD classes. Never knew why, parents never went to church. Volunteered for the military back in Vietnam days. While over there, I received a letter from my chuch “expelling” me because I did not send them the “required” 10% of my income. Needless to say, I didnt believe in much back then, and that kind of closed the door on the church/ god thing. I am a musician who would play for the local church when asked. But they knew my feelings and we would always do the “county style” gospel music which was fine with me. Now, the ladies are mad as hell because I won’t play the new wave act stuff. I don’t go for the holy roller thing at all. These are the same people who for almost 15 years, loved the country gospel. Now, it is not good enough. Here lately, there has been many battles over the music, and after this weekend, I told my wife this was the last time I play for them. Since many of the congregation are of my generation, they are getting a little fed up with the style of muisc also.

So my question is, what is the purpose of the ACTS thing if has the ability to destroy relationships that their god supposedly crreated? It should be very easy to see why there will never be world peace till all religion goes away. And like I told my wife, if this is more important than us, don’t be surprised one day when you get home and the house is empty.
 
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