ACTS retreat

[vsnbs]

My biggest problem with this whole acts thing is that it seems to instill into thr retreatants to stand their ground and dont give in. FYI, I was born a Catholic, got kicked out of Catholic school in the first grade for almost biting a nuns finger off. Back then, no one pulled my ears, they were big enough. I attended all the required CCD classes. Never knew why, parents never went to church. Volunteered for the military back in Vietnam days. While over there, I received a letter from my chuch “expelling” me because I did not send them the “required” 10% of my income. Needless to say, I didnt believe in much back then, and that kind of closed the door on the church/ god thing. I am a musician who would play for the local church when asked. But they knew my feelings and we would always do the “county style” gospel music which was fine with me. Now, the ladies are mad as hell because I won’t play the new wave act stuff. I don’t go for the holy roller thing at all. These are the same people who for almost 15 years, loved the country gospel. Now, it is not good enough. Here lately, there has been many battles over the music, and after this weekend, I told my wife this was the last time I play for them. Since many of the congregation are of my generation, they are getting a little fed up with the style of muisc also.

So my question is, what is the purpose of the ACTS thing if has the ability to destroy relationships that their god supposedly crreated? It should be very easy to see why there will never be world peace till all religion goes away. And like I told my wife, if this is more important than us, don’t be surprised one day when you get home and the house is empty.

You are angry at the ACT movement and I am sorry for that. I have seen a lot more positive reactions than negative in the 3 years I have involved. All things are not perfect.
I have even seen 3 people join the church after much prayer and contemplation. By the way ACTS is not a Catholic only experience. The Methodist church and Episcopal Church has the same basic retreat formats.

As for the emotions that is true but if encourages more particiption in the church and parish so be it.

 

[MrAgnostic]

You are probably right, I am angry at the ACT thing. But I am also angry at any group that imposes it’s beliefs onto anyone in such a way to exploit them. The church should only present its views, and if you buy into them fine. There are those who fall prey to things like this. Look at all the pyramid schemes over the years and at how many people got hurt. It is very easy to take a group of people and “persuade” a few of them that you have the answer their prayers. My wife is one of these type of people. Tell her what she wants to hear and you have her attention. But I can tell you one thing, if we do get divorced because of this, I will surely give the local ACTS my two cents. But I am sure since I am not one ot them, I will be brushed off as an outsider.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…I wonder, if your husband could start sharing some of his ACTS experiences with you, so that you understand exactly why he enjoys it so much and finds it meaningful, if that might help. I don’t think there’s any good reason for spouses not to be able to discuss it together - confidentiality can be easily protected if he refrains from mentioning people’s names. It should be clear now that you’re not interested in going on the retreat, so he shouldn’t worry about preserving the experience for you! (it took my husband a long time to accept that I wasn’t going on the retreat. Our counselor helped him come to terms with this and try to appreciate how I am different from him, and how we approach worship very differently. I just felt disgusted that it took him so long to believe me when I said I wasn’t interested!) …

Well, it has begun. Hubby received an e-mail yesterday indicating that the prep meetings for the team will begin on Saturday morning for the next mens ACTS retreat set for August. I honestly don’t expect that he will talk to me at all about it and I certainly won’t ask because it has been such a painful subject in the past. I will try to remain positive and supportive and pray for guidance if friction and frustration surface.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I have to admit that I am a little bit torn over some of the posts I’ve read here. ACTS has been hard on hubby and me, but it has also been good for him and his faith. It is not my style at all ( forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4206537&postcount=41). It is likely something that I won’t ever be involved in while his involvement will likely increase, so the idea that ACTS is something we won’t ever share does bother me and it is a bit difficult to accept at times. ACTS has certainly caused some rocky times and hobbled communication between us at times. With those considerations, I cannot imagine ever feeling enthusiastic and positive about ACTS instead of reluctantly tolerant of it. With that being said, I also cannot imagine it threatening our entire marriage. While overall I have negative feelings about ACTS, hubby has positive feelings about his ACTS retreat and the ACTS community. I am sure that any negative feelings he might have are the results of MY past reactions. That makes me wonder if I am wrong to feel so negatively about ACTS. Or, perhaps hubby is wrong to feel so positively about it. Perhaps the correct view lies somewhere in between both of our views. Since effects for him have been good, I’ll try to support my husband with this, even though I don’t understand it and am not at all enthusiastic about it.

Maybe the answer is that ACTS retreats need to be tweaked a bit regarding how spouses and the secrecy is dealt with. I don’t even know if that is possible since retreats are currently divided by men and women retreatants and the secrecy is apparently a huge part of the whole experience, but maybe a couples version needs to be considered. Or, maybe the secrecy needs to be downplayed. I know discretion should always be the rule regarding individual sharing, but perhaps the secrecy surrounding other aspects can be dispensed with. Perhaps that will aid future ACTS retreatants with spouses who are not a part of the ACTS community.

All I know right now is that, ready or not, like it or not, ACTS will impact my life. Hope it goes well.

 

[MrAgnostic]

Hope all goes well for you Ms. Swizzlestick and Naturegirl…best of luck with your ACT’s issues. All I can say in closing, is that the people I used to associate with in the area that are now ACT members, shun away from us “non-act’s” people. Sort of like the old class system. Guess I will just have to hope in the boat or get in my little plane and just fly off on weekends to enjoy myself while my wife gets “ACTivated”.

regards to all:shrug:

 

[vsnbs]

OUCH!!
I think a few people need to have their priorities checked if they are shunning or treating people differently based on if they have attended or not attended a retreat.
I would hope every parish has handled the ACTS the same as the two I attend.

Just so that everyone hear knows. I am not a fanatic, I do understand that ACTS and the people that attend are not and of course can not be perfect.
I have attended 6 retreats over three years while attempting at the best of my ability along with my wife to raise two kids, and perform my demanding job in software sales.

I wonder if in the places that maybe ACTS is being overly exerted on people that maybe an email to someone at ACTS mission office would help. I would be interested to know how it would be addressed.

actsmissions.org/index.htm

 

[cecilia97]

To those who are blaming ACTS for marriage problems,

If you have a partner that has attended a retreat and has come back involved and exhilarated. Is it not worth your relationship to just try what has excited your partner?
If you have spent years together why not give back? If you go and do not like it or the people then fine go about your own way.

Is the retreat about emotions yes! If a person comes back excited about their faith and church, what is wrong with that?

I was only lukewarm to my religion before I went to the retreat. I now try to be active in my church every way I can. That includes making sure my kids are involved as well.

I have seen many a great story come from the retreats. I can not say they change a person, but they do help people put church and faith back in their life even if for some for a little while. I would say that is still better than nothing.

vsnbs, you make good points here but the Catholic Church has always made room for the fact that different people are drawn to different forms of spirituality. Emotionalism is not for everyone. And what about couples, of which we’ve seen examples on this thread, where the second spouse CANNOT attend an ACTS retreat? My mother has a hearing disability and could not attend. A woman on this thread could not reasonably attend because she was nursing a child. Are we to exclude people because they are different or like different things?

If this was an ancient teaching of the Church that was mandatory for us to be good, involved Catholics, that would be a totally different story. It is not.

My mother was HIGHLY active in her parish before ACTS came along. She was far from lukewarm. She’d been volunteering in Catholic parishes for 35 years! After ACTS showed up in her parish, she was pretty much edged out of her volunteer function, because she wouldn’t get on the ACTS bandwagon. So, has ACTS increased volunteerism and ministry in that parish? I assert it has not…it exchanged old volunteers for new ones, and made the old ones feel “lesser than”…for no good reason.

Maybe ACTS is good for some. That’s great and I’m happy for those folks. But it’s not for everyone. Until the Pope tells me I need to do ACTS to be a faithful Catholic, I’ll stick with my boring old Ignatian retreats.

 

[MrAgnostic]

Ouch is right. I do plan on talking face to face with the local ACT person in charge. And I am sure they will talk to my wife, who will come home ranting and raving about what I did.
Then I will hear that if I was more like her, I would understand. What a vicious circle we have started. Maybe they need to change the program or warn people prior to going to the retreat. Maybe that is why it is so secret, they dont want to scare anyone.

 

[Corki]

I have to admit that I am a little bit torn over some of the posts I’ve read here. ACTS has been hard on hubby and me, but it has also been good for him and his faith. It is not my style at all ( forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4206537&postcount=41). It is likely something that I won’t ever be involved in while his involvement will likely increase, so the idea that ACTS is something we won’t ever share does bother me and it is a bit difficult to accept at times. ACTS has certainly caused some rocky times and hobbled communication between us at times. With those considerations, I cannot imagine ever feeling enthusiastic and positive about ACTS instead of reluctantly tolerant of it. With that being said, I also cannot imagine it threatening our entire marriage. While overall I have negative feelings about ACTS, hubby has positive feelings about his ACTS retreat and the ACTS community. I am sure that any negative feelings he might have are the results of MY past reactions. That makes me wonder if I am wrong to feel so negatively about ACTS. Or, perhaps hubby is wrong to feel so positively about it. Perhaps the correct view lies somewhere in between both of our views. Since effects for him have been good, I’ll try to support my husband with this, even though I don’t understand it and am not at all enthusiastic about it.

Maybe the answer is that ACTS retreats need to be tweaked a bit regarding how spouses and the secrecy is dealt with. I don’t even know if that is possible since retreats are currently divided by men and women retreatants and the secrecy is apparently a huge part of the whole experience, but maybe a couples version needs to be considered. Or, maybe the secrecy needs to be downplayed. I know discretion should always be the rule regarding individual sharing, but perhaps the secrecy surrounding other aspects can be dispensed with. Perhaps that will aid future ACTS retreatants with spouses who are not a part of the ACTS community.

All I know right now is that, ready or not, like it or not, ACTS will impact my life. Hope it goes well.

Reading this thread makes me think that the ACTS retreats might need some tweaking as well. Unless a couple commits to both going, even if there is a time delay, I don’t think the Church should be involved in promoting secrets between spouses.

Ouch is right. I do plan on talking face to face with the local ACT person in charge. And I am sure they will talk to my wife, who will come home ranting and raving about what I did.
Then I will hear that if I was more like her, I would understand. What a vicious circle we have started. Maybe they need to change the program or warn people prior to going to the retreat. Maybe that is why it is so secret, they dont want to scare anyone.

Again, secrets between spouses can be the beginning of trouble. The parish should not promote or encourage this. And for couples where one spouse is non-Catholic or in a very different place with his/her faith, this problem could be even worse.

Even something that is great and wonderful can have problems in implementation. Saying that the implementation of the ACTS retreats has caused problems isn’t an indictment of the program. But ignoring the problems will likely doom the program.

 

[naturegirl]

I will try to remain positive and supportive and pray for guidance if friction and frustration surface.

Good plan. Hang in there!!!

 

[Doug50]

ACTS isn’t just a retreat. It functions like a secretive fraternity within the parish. The candlelight service is for the retreatants being initiated into the “ACTS community.” The difference, though, is that the ACTS mission is to draw all into this fraternity. There are weekly prayer meetings for group members. Those meeting are only open to those who have gone to retreat and are members of the ACTS community. Why? Because you’re told you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been through these retreats with the others in the prayer group. I know someone who went to a prayer meeting and was told they must first attend a retreat. I know somebody else who was actually told that she needed to go on retreat because now that her husband had gone he was up here while she was still down here. I don’t know if the up here down here was meant for an emotional high are spiritual one. I myself was told that the ACTS retreats awaken the Holy Spirit that’s been inside me since Baptism - these retreats must be pretty powerful stuff. I fall back on the words of Archbishop Martinez where he talked about spiritual show and that sensing spiritual things.

 

[cecilia97]

ACTS isn’t just a retreat. It functions like a secretive fraternity within the parish. The candlelight service is for the retreatants being initiated into the “ACTS community.” The difference, though, is that the ACTS mission is to draw all into this fraternity. There are weekly prayer meetings for group members. Those meeting are only open to those who have gone to retreat and are members of the ACTS community. Why? Because you’re told you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been through these retreats with the others in the prayer group. I know someone who went to a prayer meeting and was told they must first attend a retreat. I know somebody else who was actually told that she needed to go on retreat because now that her husband had gone he was up here while she was still down here. I don’t know if the up here down here was meant for an emotional high are spiritual one. I myself was told that the ACTS retreats awaken the Holy Spirit that’s been inside me since Baptism - these retreats must be pretty powerful stuff. I fall back on the words of Archbishop Martinez where he talked about spiritual show and that sensing spiritual things.

This scares me, I have to say. ACTS retreats awaken the Holy Spirit? These retreats are not a sacrament! The Church already has established ways that we experience the Holy Spirit…our sacraments!

And the whole “you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been” could actually smack of Gnosticism if it was taken too far. Are ACTS retreatants privy to some secret, hidden knowledge that 2000 years of Catholic faith have been unable to impart to the rest of us until now? That’s creepy, IMO.

 

[naturegirl]

I know someone who went to a prayer meeting and was told they must first attend a retreat. I know somebody else who was actually told that she needed to go on retreat because now that her husband had gone he was up here while she was still down here.

Yeah, I’ve heard things like this and I found them offensive. The book that the retreatants are given on the way out the door, “Coming down the mountain,” is along these lines. The pinnacle of your existence I guess is the retreat, and then when you return to your family at the end of the retreat, it must be a real downer. I didn’t appreciate this comparison. When my husband initially told me that he had had the best weekend of his life, I was happy for him. Then he kept repeating this, and I asked him, “Really? Better than when we gave birth together? Better than our wedding weekend?” Then I started to feel hurt. Also, some of these sayings about “getting it” insinuate that those who haven’t been on the retreat are just clueless about faith. That’s also an unfair judgement.

 

[vsnbs]

Doug50,

I thought I was done with this thread for now, but Doug50 your post about ACTS being a secret fraternity is just untrue unfair and unfounded.

Also in our area the prayer groups and bible studies are open to everyone. Which by the way many different things have started in our parish since the ACTS retreat created new involvement in the church.

1. Bible Studies twice per week.
2. Adoration Hour every week.
3. Formation of children’s and teen program. (This includes remodleing an upstairs room of one of our buildings for an activity room.)

I will say that I am firmly in favor of the most conservitive values of our church, but I will add this: “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got”

 

[Doug50]

Yeah, I’ve heard things like this and I found them offensive. The book that the retreatants are given on the way out the door, “Coming down the mountain,” is along these lines. The pinnacle of your existence I guess is the retreat, and then when you return to your family at the end of the retreat, it must be a real downer. I didn’t appreciate this comparison. When my husband initially told me that he had had the best weekend of his life, I was happy for him. Then he kept repeating this, and I asked him, “Really? Better than when we gave birth together? Better than our wedding weekend?” Then I started to feel hurt. Also, some of these sayings about “getting it” insinuate that those who haven’t been on the retreat are just clueless about faith. That’s also an unfair judgement.

Odd that you should mention that book because right here it is in print where the author equates a weekend’s emotional high to a “spiritual high that quickly disappears when they reenter the world of daily work and relationships…”

A deeper theological/philosophical understanding does not disipate or disappear so quickly.

 

[agapewolf]

Odd that you should mention that book because right here it is in print where the author equates a weekend’s emotional high to a “spiritual high that quickly disappears when they reenter the world of daily work and relationships…”

A deeper theological/philosophical understanding does not disipate or disappear so quickly.

actually, what they are saying is scriptural. Its any retreat experience is a mountaintop experience …

you know “Lord, it is good we are here, let us build 3 tents…”

They are simply warning folks that mountaintop experiences don’t last, and you can’t rely on them for faith. Sounds as if they are telling people to not rely on emotionalism.

 

[Doug50]

Doug50,

I thought I was done with this thread for now, but Doug50 your post about ACTS being a secret fraternity is just untrue unfair and unfounded.

Also in our area the prayer groups and bible studies are open to everyone. Which by the way many different things have started in our parish since the ACTS retreat created new involvement in the church.

1. Bible Studies twice per week.
2. Adoration Hour every week.
3. Formation of children’s and teen program. (This includes remodleing an upstairs room of one of our buildings for an activity room.)

I will say that I am firmly in favor of the most conservitive values of our church, but I will add this: “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got”

Ok, then tell me about the ACTS retreat since I don’t intend to go. If I don’t care for any emphasis on emotionalism maybe there’s something in the retreat that I would like to take part in. After all isn’t the emphaisis on keeping it secrete is to maximize the emotional process?

 

[Doug50]

actually, what they are saying is scriptural. Its any retreat experience is a mountaintop experience …

you know “Lord, it is good we are here, let us build 3 tents…”

They are simply warning folks that mountaintop experiences don’t last, and you can’t rely on them for faith. Sounds as if they are telling people to not rely on emotionalism.

then why did they call it spirtual? Spirtual things are not felt.

 

[agapewolf]

then why did they call it spirtual? Spirtual things are not felt.

Who says? Of course they can be. I’ve had many spiritual experiences felt before. Spiritual experiences can become emotional experiences.

You dont’ think those at pentacost “felt” anything? Don’t put the Holy Spirit in a box.

 

[Doug50]

Who says? Of course they can be. I’ve had many spiritual experiences felt before. Spiritual experiences can become emotional experiences.

You dont’ think those at pentacost “felt” anything? Don’t put the Holy Spirit in a box.

??? You have made spiritual experiences felt. How did you pull that off? Have you ever made the presents of Christ felt in the Holy Eucharist so the you could tell the difference from an unblessed host?

*It is not my intention at this time to speak of the importance that the spirit of faith has in the spiritual life, or of the necessity of judging everything with a supernatural rule, or of performing all our works with aims and intentions of the same order. This is what I wish to insist upon and to call attention to in an empathic manner; the chief reason we disregard faith is our preconceived idea that we must feel God and divine things. Although we know speculatively that God is not felt, practically we hold the contrary.

Do we feel a sacrament producing its proper effect? Do we feel the increase of grace in our soul? Do we feel the death of the soul by sin and its resurrection by sacramental absolution? Do we feel the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist in such a way that if we did not perceive Him sensibly, we would not believe in it?

Without doubt there are times when our Lord allows Himself to be sensibly felt, yet it is not precisely grace that is felt, but often something else that accompanies it.* Secrets to the Interior Life by the mystic Archbishop Martinez