Adam alive when Noah was born?

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My friend recently told me that the “chronological bible” she is reading says that Adam was alive when Noah was born due to the number of years he lived as laid out in Genesis 5. 1) Has anyone ever heard this claim? The USCCB Bible commentary says the long lives are symbolic rather than historical. 2) Even so, would the numbers work out, whether years or days or hours- to make this possible if one chose to believe the passage literally? 3) Also, her chrono bible stated that these folks might have eaten from the tree of life and so had long life. I told her that couldn’t be true because no one other than Adam and Eve had been in the garden and angels were placed at the entrance when Adam and Eve were banished. I seem to remember being taught that no one had eaten from the tree of life including Adam and Eve. Is that correct? Thank you
 
My friend recently told me that the “chronological bible” she is reading says that Adam was alive when Noah was born due to the number of years he lived as laid out in Genesis 5. 1) Has anyone ever heard this claim? The USCCB Bible commentary says the long lives are symbolic rather than historical. 2) Even so, would the numbers work out, whether years or days or hours- to make this possible if one chose to believe the passage literally? 3) Also, her chrono bible stated that these folks might have eaten from the tree of life and so had long life. I told her that couldn’t be true because no one other than Adam and Eve had been in the garden and angels were placed at the entrance when Adam and Eve were banished. I seem to remember being taught that no one had eaten from the tree of life including Adam and Eve. Is that correct? Thank you
  1. No, never heard that one.
  2. If you wanted to believe that it’s true, than by all means go for it. It’s not going to effect your salvation.
  3. They did NOT eat from the tree of life. Only Adam and Eve did that.
I tend to take the bible from a more literal sense than some other Catholics (nothing heretical) but what your friend said seems a bit hard to grasp.
 
Re: working out the years in the Bible

If you want to do it, I’m sure it’s a nice hobby. Get a spreadsheet or something.

Re: years of people’s lives in Bible

Yeah, probably symbolic, or literal in a way that we don’t get. Possibly reckoned on a different year system than we use today. (Some people think that it’s a count of months or seasons of life, not years.) Not really worrying about it myself, but if you want to find material about this kind of stuff, plenty of people have played with it. Given that a thousand years are officially as a day to the Lord, you could spend a lot of time playing with Bible chronologies without finding out anything. But like I say, there are other people who’ve gotten into this stuff in depth. Probably mostly offline, or on Google Books in some other language. 🙂

It’s also possible that generations of genealogy being skipped are indicated by the year count, or that it’s counting how many people were in their tribes. Lots of possibilities and speculation and research out there, like I say. Personally, I just take it to mean that they lived a really long time, longer than you and me. Shrug.

Re: tree of life

Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. They never got around to eating of the tree of life. The tree of life was generally thought in Middle Eastern mythology to make one live forever, not just a long time. (And of course, Jesus’ tree of life, the Cross, does make one live eternally.)

The reason they lived so long is usually seen as being closer to the original vitality of unfallen life, or as a merciful gift of God, so that they could have a lot of kids before dying in order to get the human race off to a good start. The decline of lifespan is seen as part of the bad effects of the Fall (ie, “you shall die the death”). (Btw, Tolkien played with this in a fantasy way in the Silmarillion, with the ever-decreasing lifespans of the Numenoreans.)
 
According to the reckoning of years as presented in the Masoretic Hebrew text, Adam would seem to have survived around the time of Noah.



And BTW, no one ate from the Tree of Life as Mintaka said. The first parents ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was because man ate from that tree that the Tree of Life was guarded by cherubs and a flaming sword (now, when we say ‘cherubs’ it is not like the pudgy babies or winged young men/girls we see in Renaissance art. Most likely the image was that of fierce winged hybrid creatures similar to the guardian beasts of Ancient Near Eastern mythology and iconography, which usually took the form of griffins or sphinxes; cf. the ‘living creatures’ of Ezekiel or Revelation) in order to prevent man from reaching it.
 
**Side bar… Read/heard somewhere that Methuselah’s (oldest dude ever) name means something like when he dies it shall be sent. He dies right before the the Noahic deluge. Rabbinc tradition even says that God delayed the flood seven days for Mthslh’s wake and funeral. Kind of cool.:cool:
Let me say, I’m not as literal as I used to be with these early chapters (part of the Catholic package for me, perhaps?), but I still think these chapters are here for our good and packed with neat stuff. Doctrine of Original Sin to name a biggy. Come to think of it — righteous Enoch, first ‘assumpted’ person.
Finally, if we’re talking salvation history and ultimately we are, then where do you draw the line in the sand? Here’s what I mean. Some scholars are want to deny even the historicity of Abraham!!! In my opinion, they forgot to “draw the line”, “put down the marker”, “stand up and be counted”, “take one for the team” …

blessings, Wes
 
The geneaologies demonstrate that men contemporary with both Adam and Noah (as well as Noah and Abram) could easily have witnessed to the oral tradition of the father of humanity as it was passed on to Noah.

When treating Adam one must be self-aware of the modernist biases one has contracted in our dark and godless era. The modernist as any good evolutionist would, posits Adam as barely a step above an ape-man, and primitive in culture, knowledge and religion. The reality is that Adam experienced perfect life in a perfect world within a perfect relationship with his Creator and in the joys of a perfect marriage. This man lived 930 years and possessed wisdom that no man could possibly have claimed (Solomon notwithstanding) and his doctrine and experiences have informed the entire human race. Adam’s doctrine was indeed passed onto Noah who likewise transmitted it to Abram.

There is no reliable tradition of exegesis that explains the years of the patriarchs as anything other than 360 day lunar years.

Happy Easter,
cj
 
If you add up the years according to the Masoretic–Adam would have died when Lamech(Noah’s father) was 57 years old–Noah wouldn’t be born until 125 years later.
 
If you add up the years according to the Masoretic–Adam would have died when Lamech(Noah’s father) was 57 years old–Noah wouldn’t be born until 125 years later.
Wow, thanks for that. 👍
 
There is no reliable tradition of exegesis that explains the years of the patriarchs as anything other than 360 day lunar years.

Happy Easter,
cj
You think god would have mentioned to these patriarchs that there are really 364 and a bit days in the year. Oh well, math was never one of god’s stronger aspects. The whole three days between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning fiasco demonstrates that quite clearly.
 
You think god would have mentioned to these patriarchs that there are really 364 and a bit days in the year. Oh well, math was never one of god’s stronger aspects. The whole three days between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning fiasco demonstrates that quite clearly.
Hi cerad,
In the spirit of your challenge (if I take you rightly), let’s step back from minutia and postulate about the ways of God. For instance, God doesn’t say— ‘Abram I’ve taken a liking to you, therefore I want you to come to heaven, when you die, to be with me forever.’ Instead he speaks in a language that Abram, can appreciate. He speaks in terms of land, and descendants, and a great name. God makes Abraham the “Ben Cartwright” of the ancient near east. What a God we serve!

peace in our day,
Wes
 
You think god would have mentioned to these patriarchs that there are really 364 and a bit days in the year. Oh well, math was never one of god’s stronger aspects. The whole three days between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning fiasco demonstrates that quite clearly.
In English 101 I learned that you must read things using the proper methods for the genre or type of writing. If you read poetry, you expect the author to use symbols, allegory, sentimentalism, etc.

So, if there is a God, then He speaks truth. When reading God genre, one must attempt to hear truth rather than give the language a personal twist to make it look like a lie.

When speaking of time, I may say that I will be in Phoenix for a day, when I mean that I will fly in, conduct business for six hours and fly out again. No one would presume to call me a liar for not being there 24 hours. Well actually, before children learn that words have more than one meaning they will often misunderstand what is said, usually because they have misunderstood in a manner that would favor them in the interpretation, such as “You said I could eat the cake, so I ate the whole cake.”

The imprecise nature of language permits this flexibility in meaning among mature adults.

By both the Jewish and Gentile reckoning Jesus was in the tomb on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This isn’t math, it is language. He was in the tomb three days and now He is Risen!

In order to assert that there is no God, one must presume to be more intelligent than God. Twisting the language such that it looks like God can’t do the simplest of math is nothing more than the same. No answer will suffice, since no answer is sought.
 
If you add up the years according to the Masoretic–Adam would have died when Lamech(Noah’s father) was 57 years old–Noah wouldn’t be born until 125 years later.
This reckoning is reliable but it also is only meaningful if Adam alone could redact the knowledge he acquired and no other redactors existed. As I said in an earlier post, there were many people who were contemporary with both Adam and Noah. They are the transmitters of Adam’s doctrines and testimony about God. I find no difficulty here as many witnesses to Adam’s words were well able to both redact and transmit his account of history, and as the First Man, father of humanity, it stands to reason that everyone wanted to sit at the feet of Adam and hear his wisdom (and that of Eve, his wife).

The real challenge is how did Abram hear Adam’s words? According to the geneaologies, Noah and Abram lived contemporaneously for 58 years (!).

Abraham passed the revelation on to Isaac and Jacob, and the brilliant Joseph compiled a history of the elect family for the annals of Egypt. These records no doubt would have been available to Moses much later, and may be a source for the Genesis narratives. The reality is that some record existed somewhere, and that it was inspired and authoritative, and that the revelations Moses received on Sinai confirmed this record. It is instructive that the week of creation is referred to in the giving of the Law (Exodus 20:11).

In my judgment, it is reasonable to imagine that Noah took the writings of Adam, Enoch and other sources of revelation into the ark. Else they would be lost, and the fact is, we have them. In fact, Jude’s letter in the NT quotes Enoch. Therefore, some antedeluvian (pre-flood) prophetic writing existed, unless we say that Jude is lying in Holy Scripture. There is also ample apocryphal evidence for this argument embedded in the ancient Chinese character for “boat.” (the character is comprised of 3 symbols that mean “vessel”, “8” and “mouths” literally persons)

The geneaology that shows Noah being contemporary with Abram again associates Abram with the fame and repute of Noah, who must have enjoyed Adam-like status in his own day. St. Peter’s epistles regard Noah as a significant historical figure in salvation history. Our Blessed Redeemer does, too. Regardless, the records transmitted from Adam to Noah would find a fitting stewardship in Abram, who was chosen by God as heir of the world and progenitor of the promised Seed of the Woman (Gen. 3:15).

When I was in Iraq for combat operations in 2003, we stopped at the biblical city Ur of the Chaldees (it was called Talil Airbase for us paratroopers), land of Abram’s origins. A giant ziggurat is still there to this day. The Chaldeans most certainly would have regarded Noah as an important figure, even if they rejected his doctrines and preaching.

Once we get by the Modernist bias to regard ancient civilizations as primitive and inferior, and see that Adam was indeed the wisest of all ancient men, it is much easier to trace the transmission of revelation and sacred geneaologies through the patriarchs to Joseph. But those who cling to theistic evolutionism must needs stumble here, not because of faulty scriptures, revelation, redaction or archeological evidence, but because of a faulty anthropological of view of man that is advanced by atheistic science.

Easter blessings,
cj
 
CJ,

P. J. Wiseman observed the colophones on clay tablets and suggested that those who actually observed the events, recorded Genesis on clay tablets which were then transcribed by Moses to papyrus.

In this case the tablets were passed from father to son until Jacob brought them to Egypt where they likely were placed in Pharaoh’s library. Moses knew his own history because he read it there. It is probable that they were the original essence of the birthright.

The need for oral tradition from Adam to Moses disappears. Since many modernists were already well immersed in the JEDP documentary hypothesis, they could not give Wiseman a fair shake.

JEDP was a early attempt to discredit Genesis as the word of God based on the error-prone methodology suggested. It is circular reasoning really. 1. first judge the text to be erroneous. 2. Propose hypothetical methods for the generation of the text. 3. Use the hypothetical methods to justify the erroneous texts.

God intended for his different names to be used in the text and proper interpretation seeks to find out what the meaning for it was.

JEDP challenges the very divine authorship by implying that mere men wrote the originals which were then “redacted”. To say it plainly to expose the lie, redacted means many parts were lost in a direct affront to God’s claim that not a jot or tittle would pass away.

Anyone actually examining the evidence for JEDP would laugh at the want of it. It is akin to inventing dinosaur behaviors from the evidence of a single bone.

Wiseman hypothesis - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiseman_hypothesis

His book is out of print but an online summary is here:
trueorigin.org/tablet.asp
 
You think god would have mentioned to these patriarchs that there are really 364 and a bit days in the year.
Why is this even important? Various cultures have used lunar calendars, solar calendars, and less-accurate solar calendars, and the crops always seem to get planted on time. Man is free to count time however he wishes.
 
A side note… some have mentioned those who may have sat under the teaching of Adam.

Considering that the meaning of Nephilim not really known, and is hypothesized to being the offspring of Angels and men, one might re-read the descriptions and see if they apply to
the “giants” of reknown Adam, Seth, etc.

I believe it probable that the Nephilim is a title referring to those named in the Genesis account of the fall like we would refer to the Chicogo seven.

It is a side discussion, but of interest in the context of those whom Adam may have had direct contact with.
 
JEDP challenges the very divine authorship by implying that mere men wrote the originals which were then “redacted”. To say it plainly to expose the lie, redacted means many parts were lost in a direct affront to God’s claim that not a jot or tittle would pass away.

Anyone actually examining the evidence for JEDP would laugh at the want of it. It is akin to inventing dinosaur behaviors from the evidence of a single bone.
👍

This is the core of the matter. Documentary theory is the domain of the impious modernists, and they as their father the devil did, try to generate doubt in the minds of the children of God about the Word of God:
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” Genesis 3
Similarly, the devil attacks Jesus in the wilderness with “If you are the Son of God…” and on the cross with “If this man were the Son of God…” And how does our Lord and Master answer the father of lies? With the Bible! “It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which proceeds from the mouth of the LORD.”

Whatsoever encourages trust, faith and reliance on the Biblical text edifies the saints and diminishes the kingdom of darkness. Whatsoever engenders doubt, uncertainty and lack of confidence in the Sacred Scriptures is an apostolate of satan, and will be met with the wrath of God.

“Ignorance of the Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” -St. Jerome, translator of the Latin Vulgate, the version of the Bible used by the Church as the authoritative translation for 1500 years.:highprayer:
 
Whatsoever encourages trust, faith and reliance on the Biblical text edifies the saints and diminishes the kingdom of darkness. Whatsoever engenders doubt, uncertainty and lack of confidence in the Sacred Scriptures is an apostolate of satan, and will be met with the wrath of God.:
Actually CJ I think you need to stop vacillating, and tell us what you really think.😉
No, really I like your spunk; thank you for your service also.

blessings, Wes
 
The way I calculate the years all of Noah’s fathers and grandfathers died before the flood which happened when Noah was 600 years old andf his sons were 100 years old.

Noah’s father Lamech died 10 years before the flood and his oldest great grandfather Methuselah who lived longer than anyone else and died at age 969 died the year before the flood.

Methuselah could have known Adam and he could have shared his knowledge of Adam with Noah.

Not only that but he could have also shared his knowledge of his father Enoch with Noah.

Enoch didn’t die–“He was not for God took him”.

Maybe the knowledge of the righteous Enoch inspired Noah to be the faithful man that he was.
 
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