Adam and Eve, playing with grenades

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Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
 
If I were coming at this from a Christian standpoint I’d just say that God isn’t bound by man’s law. Man is bound by God’s law.

From my standpoint, I’d say it’s a creation myth used to teach why bad things happen in the world.

What’s the problem exactly?
 
Remember that the story is told consistently with how history is passed from word of mouth through generations back then. They make things into a story. Having the tree of life and the tree of knowledge there show’s God’s love for man by giving them choice. That is the choice to love him back and the choice to not love him. Because love is only love if one is free not to love. If Adam and Eve can only eat from the tree of life, then they are not loved by God but rather merely pets.
 
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
Because Adam and Eve weren’t children. Adam and Eve might have been innocent but they weren’t idiots
 
not a good analogy. its not like two adults.
its the God that made and nurtured them vs a strange tempter.
 
You’re making the assumption that God is the one that put the serpent there with the purpose to tempt, and therefore making the indirect assertion that God wanted them to be tempted. It would be more accurate for the analogy if the mother left the room, and another woman walked in and told the children to play with the grenade, even though the mother probably told the woman not to.

I also agree with the others that Adam and Eve may have been ignorant, but they weren’t idiots. They knew they would be disobeying God, but it seems their curiosity got the best of them.
 
The problem in the analogy is that the mother cannot bring back the child to life, that is why it is negligence, unlike God that can restore the corrupt human nature back to its perfect form. Another thing is that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge did not kill Adam & Even but their act of disobedience which is Sin, unlike the grenade which is made to kill with or without permission. That is the difference.
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
 
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
Post 11 has some good points regarding “analogy” itself. In all the years that I have seen some form of the OP’s question, this is the best answer yet. Why? Because it directly examines the “analogy” itself at its heart which is the status or description of the key characters-- someone named God and someone named mother.

Please understand, I am not asking you or anyone to accept the existence of God. Still, it is fair to ask – What is your description of the someone or something named God? And what is your description of the someone or something named mother?

A real analogy is not a riddle.

A real analogy presupposes that its author understands that there has to be some resemblance between the characters or things in the analogy and the characters or things that the analogy is supposed to represent.

So that I can better address your presentation, kindly describe the two main people or things, i.e., God and mother. Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.
 
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
As far as I’m concerned the Fall was planned, whether it took place in some literal Garden of Eden or not. Otherwise you’d have a pair of eternally naive humans who had no idea what morality meant - the battle between good and evil, the responsibility of free choice, the responsibility of answering for our actions etc.

Without the Fall, there would have been no possibility of God demonstrating the depth of His own sacrifice, in the form of His own Son.

I don’t doubt God planned for it to happen. If He didn’t then He could hardly be called omniscient. “Erk! I’ve been outwitted by the devil! This calls for Plan B!”

However, and this is the nub, WE are still answerable for our actions. If a teacher puts a box of chocolates on his desk as a test, and walks out of the room, saying, “Don’t touch it!”, the students who all got a bit are all guilty of breaking his commandment, and will be punished as such. They knew what he said, knew he meant what he said, and still disobeyed.

I suppose it ties in a bit with the odd event which happened when my own father appeared in my room the night he died. During the proceedings, which finished with an almighty terrifying scream on his part just before he disappeared again, he blurted out “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” to which I responded, “That can’t be right!”. He replied, “Oh, it’s right, all right. You can see that from here!”

Yet later he admitted, “I was WILLING(!)” (to do and persist in the cruel, stupid things he did that condemned him).

So it may have been part of God’s sovereign that he “always was doomed”, but he also admitted that he was “WILLING” to go along with it. Adam and Eve were WILLING to make the choice they did, Cain was WILLING to kill Abel, Judas was WILLING to betray Christ, even though (in a shade of my own father) he was the man “destined to be lost”, the Pharisees were WILLING to have Christ crucified, even though Christ warned them, “You hypocrites! How can you hope to escape being condemned to Hell?”

Hitler was WILLING to murder millions of people as was Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and all the rest, even if it was part of God’s plan they should be condemned to Hell. I can’t say I like it much, but I long ago gave up telling God what to do. That doesn’t mean I like Him at all times, or understand Him.

If the death-night apparition of my father spoke the truth, we’re going to find at the end of our own life, when the truth is revealed plainly instead of through a glass darkly, “Oh, It’s right, all right. I can see that from here!”

In the meantime we stick to our faith, even if we don’t always understand what we’re talking about.
 
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
The story itself is “analogous”. You are criticizing an analogy with another analogy. Its not a historical account. Its a fictional representation of the fall of Adam and eve; the fall of the human race in to sin. It is not a step by step news-cast of how the fall actually happened. There was no tree or apple; these are just symbolic representations of temptation. The Snake represents the devil or temptation.

Perhaps you can find a flaw in the analogy, but that is not evidence that you have found a moral flaw in the theology of sin and how it came into the world.
 
Here’s a scenario that I think seems very analogous to the story of Adam and Eve: A mother takes her child and places him in a room full of toys. In the middle of the room she places a grenade, and sternly warns the child not to pull the pin, or else he’ll die. She then leaves the room, and lets another adult in who she knows will encourage the child to pull the pin. She comes back an hour later, and finds that the child has in fact pulled the pin to the grenade and is dead.

How is that any different from God leaving the tree of knowledge sitting in the middle of the Garden of Eden, knowing that they weren’t capable of understanding the consequences of eating its fruit, and then letting Satan in to tempt them? If any human parent did that we’d charge them with criminal negligence, but we give God a free pass. Can anyone explain this?
Easy, man - God’s the Gov’nor. He knows that it’s necessary for His kids to get poorly knees if they’re ever going to learn to run. But then He sees all things from the Eternal perspective, not the finite vision of our own fears & limitations!

he’s a good Daddy, just wants His kids to grow to their potential, not remain stunted in their cots!
 
As far as I’m concerned the Fall was planned, whether it took place in some literal Garden of Eden or not. Otherwise you’d have a pair of eternally naive humans who had no idea what morality meant - the battle between good and evil, the responsibility of free choice, the responsibility of answering for our actions etc.
Catholic teaching, which is also logical teaching, is that Adam had the same human nature as you and I. That is why logically we are his descendants. The difference is that the human nature which is transmitted to us is wounded, not totally corrupted, because of the contracted state of original sin.

Human nature is an unique unification of both the material and spiritual worlds, rational soul and decomposing anatomy. This may seem obvious, yet it is often forgotten – there is a difference between Adam and his Creator.

God created Adam in His image so that Adam (because of his spiritual soul) could live in God’s friendship. As a creature, Adam, and each of us, can live this friendship only by submission to God. Adam knew this fact from the beginning due to the spiritual faculties, intellect and will, of his soul. Being dependent on God, Adam was subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms which governed the use of his freedom.

Adam was not naive.

He freely chose to let his trust in God die in his heart. He freely chose to prefer himself, his own desires. Adam scorned God and with that deliberate act, he shattered his friendship with God. Yet, God did not abandon him.

Source of information: paragraphs 355 - 421, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/355.htm

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.
 
Wait, I have always been told that God allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted, right? Didn’t it work the same way as when he allowed Job to be hurt by Satan? I think this has to be under the “blind faith” category in my head, too. My, what a long list! :0
 
I don’t think anyone is litterally “destined to go to Hell,” as that would imply that some are going to Hell no matter what. Everyone has free will and everyone has the choice of Heaven or Hell (I here exclude those who do not have free will due to illness. If they do not have free will, they cannot be accountable for their actions.)
 
I think many take the story of creation too literally. It is the story of mankind. Without the experience of evil, man cannot be free to choose good over it. Thus, he cannot truly be said to have free will. Once man has the experience of evil, then he also has the responsibility of choice. How he uses this choice is the basis of all religious teachings. This would also shed some light on the story of Job whom God allowed to be tested by Satan.
 
I see this problem all the time with non-Catholics even (not necessarily atheists). They look at Genesis in a vacuum and point out all sorts of errors in it. Meanwhile there has literally been thousands upon thousands of years of study by both Jews and Christians on Genesis. Figuring it out needs to be looked at in light of the commentary of the past, not just in a vacuum.
 
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