Adam and Eve: Real or just representation of events

[grannymh]

I don’t think that I connected the words time and linneage together, the Bible doesn’t do that in the NT, it does however do that in the OT, but that isn’t my point. My point is this. Where do we stop deciding that it was just allegory and start believing that it actually happened. Jesus could just as easily be fiction as Adam if we take that stance.

May I respectfully point out that Adam is not fiction and therefore Jesus, called the new Adam, cannot be fiction. By the way, my grandson loves looking at pictures of Jonah and the whale, both inside and out. The idea of God stuffing Jonah in a fish would delight him.

Blessings,
granny

 

[hammerswinger]

Thank you for the welcome. I wouldn’t classify myself as a Catholic basher, actually it’s quite the opposite. I have great respect and love for the Catholic people. I just have some disagreements with the churches theology. Let me tell you why I love Catholics.
They, in general, are very dedicated to their church and their churches ideologies
They are respectful and reverent in their church services
They have a fabulous educational and medical system
Most of them are very loving people
All of these things I respect and admire. I come here to learn more about your theology and get a feel for how you think. Thank you for allowing me to visit.

 

[OchsFam]

If we are now talking about names and not their existence, the Bible is clear that the woman’s name was Eve and the man’s name was Adam. Adam is Hebrew for man and she is called (named) Eve “because she became the mother of all the living” (Gen 3:20). Their names were descriptions as much as anything. Genealogies are referenced to these names as are New Testament references to the first man and woman. You would be hard pressed to argue that the first man’s name was not Adam and the first woman’s name was not Eve.

The Bible is inerrant and while I agree that there are portions of the creation story that are not meant to be received literalistically, the names of the first man and woman is not one of them.

God Bless.

 

[Teneas]

Thank you for the welcome. I wouldn’t classify myself as a Catholic basher, actually it’s quite the opposite. I have great respect and love for the Catholic people. I just have some disagreements with the churches theology. Let me tell you why I love Catholics.
They, in general, are very dedicated to their church and their churches ideologies
They are respectful and reverent in their church services
They have a fabulous educational and medical system
Most of them are very loving people
All of these things I respect and admire. I come here to learn more about your theology and get a feel for how you think. Thank you for allowing me to visit.

 

[Splinker]

Give me that time lineage if you can to man. I would be interested to see when a woman besides Eve was actually born.

It would be patrilinal, as we are only told that Eve bore sons and daughters (after Cain and Able).

You don’t really need Jesus to restate the family tree. It is set forth in exhausting detail in the Bible.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I believe that Adam and Eve really existed and that the entire human race is descended from them. The Book of Genesis uses figurative language to express true events that are important elements of salvation history. However, the Book of Genesis is not a work of science. I accept the truths of Genesis and I also accept the truths of science. I believe that it is impossible for faith to contradict science and vice versa.

I am open minded when it comes to Evolution. I don’t believe in it wholeheartedly, but I won’t dismiss it. I think Evolution and Creation can be compatible with each other. If Evolution did occur, it was by the hand of God.

 

[Pawel_J]

I believe that Adam and Eve really existed and that the entire human race is descended from them.

I am surprised you say so. Of course we cannot take the words of the Bible in this case literally. If this were to be a true, literal story, so after killing his brother, Kain, Adam and Eve would remain alone in the world. From 1 Moses 4:17 we know Kain had a wife. But there is only Kain and his parents in the world, so he could marry either his own mother, which is hardly possile, or his younger sister, born possibly later, which is disgusting. As you see the words of the Bible cannot be taken literally. They are symbolic.

 

[Dempsey1919]

If this were to be a true, literal story, so after killing his brother, Kain, Adam and Eve would remain alone in the world. From 1 Moses 4:17 we know Kain had a wife. But there is only Kain and his parents in the world, so he could marry either his own mother, which is hardly possile, or his younger sister, born possibly later, which is disgusting.

Read the following from the archives of “Ask An Apologist” to understand what the Church teaches about this topic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=366661&highlight=adam+eve

I am surprised you say so.

I believe in Theistic Evolution or Evolutionary Creationism. I believe in science but I also believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church. I believe in Adam and Eve because the Catholic Church has constantly taught that the entire human race is descended from them. Read the following from Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII:

1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]

Source: vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

The Catholic Church teaches that all men are descended from one set of parents. We do not believe that there are people who did not take their existence from Adam. The Church teaches that Adam was the father of all people. However, it should be noted that the Church does not disbelieve in Evolution. It is possible to believe that the human race is descended from one set of parents and also in Evolution.

To summarise, I believe that God created the entire Cosmos out of nothing, but I look to science to explain how he did this. Faith and Science do not contradict each other.

 

[Pawel_J]

The Catholic Church teaches that all men are descended from one set of parents. We do not believe that there are people who did not take their existence from Adam. The Church teaches that Adam was the father of all people. However, it should be noted that the Church does not disbelieve in Evolution. It is possible to believe that the human race is descended from one set of parents and also in Evolution.

To summarise, I believe that God created the entire Cosmos out of nothing, but I look to science to explain how he did this. Faith and Science do not contradict each other.

I agree that Faith and science not necessarily must contradict each other, but on one condition, that we will not insist on literal understanding of the Bible, especially the OT. Adam means “human” and can represent the whole art or group of hominidae, which gave start to the mankind, but we cannot see him as a one, single, specific person. It’s ridiculous.

 

[grannymh]

I am surprised you say so. Of course we cannot take the words of the Bible in this case literally. If this were to be a true, literal story, so after killing his brother, Kain, Adam and Eve would remain alone in the world. From 1 Moses 4:17 we know Kain had a wife. But there is only Kain and his parents in the world, so he could marry either his own mother, which is hardly possile, or his younger sister, born possibly later, which is disgusting. As you see the words of the Bible cannot be taken literally. They are symbolic.

Pardon me, but you are throwing the baby out with the bath water without ever understanding actual, real life, basic and essential, certified Catholic teaching. What is mentioned above is non sequitur at best.

For those who are interested in Catholic teaching, this is a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition

www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[grannymh]

I agree that Faith and science not necessarily must contradict each other, but on one condition, that we will not insist on literal understanding of the Bible, especially the OT. Adam means “human” and can represent the whole art or group of hominidae, which gave start to the mankind, but we cannot see him as a one, single, specific person. It’s ridiculous.

What really makes this ridiculous is the misunderstanding of the realm of science–what it is and what it can and cannot do.

 

[grannymh]

I think Evolution and Creation can be compatible with each other. If Evolution did occur, it was by the hand of God.

What would be most helpful is to realize how evolutionary theory is applied to dinosaurs, bacteria, and animals and how evolutionary theory cannot be applied to the human species.

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

www.CatholicsComeHomeRockford.org
www.CatholicsComeHome.org

 

[larkin31]

Although I am agnostic now, I grew up in a Protestant minister’s house, and we never believed–nor was it ever taught in the church (a large liberal denomination)–that the story of Adam and Eve was literally true. That teaching would have chased 9/10s of the congregation away.

 

[Tybourne]

we cannot see him as a one, single, specific person. It’s ridiculous.

We don’t have to take the whole Genesis narrative literally, but a single ancestor of humanity makes sense to both faith and reason. As has been mentioned in this thread, science has its own hypothesis of ‘Mitochondrial Eve’. For faith, much of the theology of St Paul and the Fathers rests upon the notion of the First Adam (our first father) and the New Adam (Jesus).

Accepting this reality does not mean we have to take literally the killing of Abel by Cain in the next generation. Rather, once human kind, in the person of our first parents, had opted to separate itself from God, it was only a matter of time before one person would kill another, whenever this happened for the first time.

 

[Dempsey1919]

We don’t have to take the whole Genesis narrative literally, but a single ancestor of humanity makes sense to both faith and reason. As has been mentioned in this thread, science has its own hypothesis of ‘Mitochondrial Eve’. For faith, much of the theology of St Paul and the Fathers rests upon the notion of the First Adam (our first father) and the New Adam (Jesus).

I agree with this. It would be crazy to suggest that the events narrated in Genesis occurred exactly as they are written. I am not advocating a literal interpretation of Genesis as some Christian Fundamentalists suggest. Genesis is not a science book.

Genesis should not be read literally. However, it does contain truths, and I personally believe one of these to be that humanity is descended from a single set of parents. I do not know what these first parents were like, and I am not suggesting that they were fully formed modern homo sapiens. I believe in Evolution and I believe that humanity has evolved from these single set of parents. I subscribe to Theistic Evolution or Evolutionary Creationism.

I struggle to understand how Catholics can say they do not believe that humanity is descended from a single set of parents, which the Bible calls Adam and Eve. The Catholic Church teaches the doctrine of Original Sin. Death entered the world through Adam, and life entered the world through Jesus Christ. God created humanity in a state of original holiness and justice, and through the sin of the first man, death entered the world. The Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity assumed human nature to restore the human race. He came so that we could be made sons of God, receive his divine nature and have eternal life.

If Adam never existed, then Original Sin is not true. If Original Sin is false, then humanity had no need of a Saviour. Belief in the reality of Adam and Eve underpins the entire Catholic faith.

 

[grannymh]

I am not suggesting that they were fully formed modern homo sapiens.

Before leaving town, may I humbly suggest that one needs to understand what a fully formed homo sapiens is. Suggestion–study what an immaterial, immortal, spiritual soul is–the soul created by God.

The human species’ human nature is rational/corporeal, spirit/matter, soul/body-- period. Then study the basis for the evolutionary theory which is that all reality is material. Can that be applied to you?

 

[mariahloves]

**I think as long as you believe humans have a soul and are created in the image of God (and were created, however you want to look at it, evolution or not something CAUSED it to happen and that was God) it doesn’t really matter whether you believe every word of Genesis is literal fact, that it was all symbolic, or half/half…it’s really not that important. Just my opinion.

Also just for the record I believe in creationism, as in God created a man and a woman, they were connected to God and had a great relationship then somewhere down the line, they sinned, and here we are today. Somewhere in the Bible (I forget where) it’s said that you can’t compare God’s “time” to our time and to us one day of God’s time is like one thousand days of our time, so in theory, the whole Genesis account could be literal and those 6 days of creation were thousands or millions.

AND God could’ve created other humans after Adam and Eve and He just didn’t find it relevant enough to mention so it doesn’t mean people committed incest.**

 

[Dempsey1919]

Before leaving town, may I humbly suggest that one needs to understand what a fully formed homo sapiens is. Suggestion–study what an immaterial, immortal, spiritual soul is–the soul created by God.

The human species’ human nature is rational/corporeal, spirit/matter, soul/body-- period. Then study the basis for the evolutionary theory which is that all reality is material. Can that be applied to you?

I believe in the special creation of the soul by God. Souls are instantly created by God. However, the human body may have underwent evolutionary changes throughout the course of time. I believe in God the Father Almighty creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. Therefore, I believe that both body and soul were created by God. I believe that while the soul was instantly created by God and was not subject to evolutionary change, the material body may have undergone changes throughout the course of time. Science labels this as the process of evolution.

It is impossible for faith to contradict science because both are true. Truth cannot contradict truth. For this reason, I believe that science can shed light on the truths of the faith. Faith tells us what God did, science tells us how he did it.

 

[larkin31]

I agree with this. It would be crazy to suggest that the events narrated in Genesis occurred exactly as they are written. I am not advocating a literal interpretation of Genesis as some Christian Fundamentalists suggest. Genesis is not a science book.

Genesis should not be read literally. However, it does contain truths, and I personally believe one of these to be that humanity is descended from a single set of parents. I do not know what these first parents were like, and I am not suggesting that they were fully formed modern homo sapiens. I believe in Evolution and I believe that humanity has evolved from these single set of parents. I subscribe to Theistic Evolution or Evolutionary Creationism.

I struggle to understand how Catholics can say they do not believe that humanity is descended from a single set of parents, which the Bible calls Adam and Eve. The Catholic Church teaches the doctrine of Original Sin. Death entered the world through Adam, and life entered the world through Jesus Christ. God created humanity in a state of original holiness and justice, and through the sin of the first man, death entered the world. The Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity assumed human nature to restore the human race. He came so that we could be made sons of God, receive his divine nature and have eternal life.

If Adam never existed, then Original Sin is not true. If Original Sin is false, then humanity had no need of a Saviour. Belief in the reality of Adam and Eve underpins the entire Catholic faith.

Genesis suggests that there were both other animals and other humans outside of Eden. I can’t see how Adam and Eve are literally the first and only hominids (or whatever).

 

[Pawel_J]

Read the following from the archives of “Ask An Apologist” to understand what the Church teaches about this topic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=366661&highlight=adam+eve

I would like to ask you a question. Do you think that every Catholic is obliged to believe such interpretatation given by the Catholic Church? And what if somebody cannot believe such nonsense? I am Catholic, but cannot believe this explanation. Cain married his younger sister, rubbish! Is this the official interpretation of the Church? And what about incest taboo, what about congenital birth defects? If it were to be the truth, the mankind would quickly die off or would consist now of deformed, underdeveloped individuals.