Adam and Eve stories in older religions contradict Christian Adam and Eve

[TimothyH]

So I was wondering how can we know that our version of Adam and Eve is true when there have been older religions like Hinduism who have their own Adam and Eve story?

Your question is good. It is good to ask this. How do we know that our religion is the correct religion? All have books. All have stories. All claim to be correct. That ours is newer or older tells us nothing. Their ancestors believed their religion.

We can start here, and this is pointed out by Karl Keating, that no other religion has over 5000 fulfilled prophecies. That’s a good start.

Here is part 1 of the debate between Karl Keating and a Baptist preacher where he points these things out.

youtube.com/watch?v=stS4eveIbQQ

-Tim-

 

[mtrevino]

“Our” version of Adam & Eve is true because we believe everything Jesus says, and Jesus quoted the Genesis creation account. Adam is also mentioned in Jesus’ lineage. That’s all you need to know to set the truth factor straight.

So that’s it? No rational inquiry? That seems so intellectually lazy!

 

[johnnyjones]

So that’s it? No rational inquiry? That seems so intellectually lazy!

Why would you say that? If your Christian and fully embrace the faith, the words of Jesus satisfy. Other religions can have all the stories they want about origins and you can enjoy the historic aspect of what they believe, but if you believe God in human flesh said something, what other truth do you need?

 

[grannymh]

Well, if that is the Church’s official stance, I will not be joining after all. On one hand, they say it is permissable to accept the fact of evolution, then on the other hand they still push the folklore of Adam and Eve and the Fall. Too much cognitive dissonance for my taste. Anyone care to disabuse me of this?

My apology, but I am not sure what you are referring to as folklore. Could that be a talking snake?

The key issue in the first three chapters of Genesis is an actual original sin. :tsktsk:

This sin shattered the relationship between humanity and God. What we know about that sin is that the first human, biblically known as Adam, scorned his Creator. As a creature, Adam was dependent on God and therefore he had to freely choose to live in submission to God. Basically, the original sin occurred because Adam preferred himself over God. This is seen as pride resulting in disobedience.
The consequences of that sin are not pretty.

The good news is that God did not abandon humanity. He promised a Redeemer, Jesus Christ, True God and True Man. Jesus established the Catholic Church so He could be continually with us. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass gives us the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. In addition, the seven Sacraments, including the Eucharist, strengthen us to live in God’s friendship from birth to death.

Romans 5: 12-21 explains the important relationship between Jesus and Adam.

Adam had an unique position. The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man.” (Source: St. Thomas Aquinas, DeMalo 4.1) “And the gift [Redeemer Jesus Christ] is not like the result of the one person’s [Adam] sinning. For after one sin there was the judgment that brought condemnation; but the gift (Jesus’ death on the cross and His resurrection], after many transgressions, brought acquittal.” (Source: Romans 5: 12-21)

“In this passage, Paul reflects on the sin of Adam in the light of the redemptive mystery of Christ…” (Source: footnote for Chapter 5: 12-21) It is only one person who sinned and he would necessarily have to be the first person, from whom all mankind descended because Jesus Christ not only died but was victorious over death for all.

Going back to the origin of Adam, one first needs to consider the role of the evolution model in natural science. By definition, natural science explores the material/physical world including decomposing anatomies. As long as those anatomies are those of non-humans, there is no problem. It is when natural science addresses the human anatomy, that Catholicism says that in addition to blood and guts, the human person has a non-material, rational spiritual soul directly created by God.

While the evolution model has given society many benefits, especially in the medical arena, one needs to remember that the evolution model is based in the material/physical world. Thus, something material/physical can only evolve into something material/physical. Animals can improve through evolution, but they cannot become human because human nature is an unique unification of both the material world *and *the spiritual world.

Bottom line is that the Catholic Church can support natural science, a gift from God, because it remains in the material/physical realm. But it cannot support evolution of the spiritual soul which is beyond the limits of the material/physical realm. It is the spiritual soul of Adam and his descendants which makes it possible for you and me
to share in God’s divine life through knowledge and love, now and forever. .

 

[mtrevino]

Why would you say that? If your Christian and fully embrace the faith, the words of Jesus satisfy. Other religions can have all the stories they want about origins and you can enjoy the historic aspect of what they believe, but if you believe God in human flesh said something, what other truth do you need?

He referred to Adam because the Judeans were familiar with the Torah. People make literary references all the time. Further, the mounds of empirical evidence indicate otherwise. If we cannot trust the results of science, then nothing can be known.

 

[grannymh]

He referred to Adam because the Judeans were familiar with the Torah. People make literary references all the time. Further, the mounds of empirical evidence indicate otherwise. If we cannot trust the results of science, then nothing can be known.

Tiny hint, please.

While the results of science are great for interpreters, those who actually read natural science research know that it is the evidence (methods and materials) which has to be trusted to warrant the particular conclusion.

 

[mtrevino]

Tiny hint, please.

While the results of science are great for interpreters, those who actually read natural science research know that it is the evidence (methods and materials) which has to be trusted to warrant the particular conclusion.

Methods and materials are the result of previous and sometimes unrelated experiments or studies, but for the experiment at hand they are the means whereby new knowledge (ie. results, raw evidence) is achieved. Yes, results do need to be interpreted or translated from numerical data into coherent ideas.
Scientific evidence indicates that enough humans to maintain genetic diversity migrated out of Africa approximately 75,000 years ago. Adam and Eve, according to theology, were Mesopotamians living roughly 6,000 years ago. I can buy that they were the ancestors of modern Semitic peoples whose memories were orally passed down through the ages. They are not the only people to have done so. What I am most curious about is the Fall. Outside of figurative language, how did it happen if at all? It seems obvious to me that there is something wrong with humanity. I don’t mean to sound argumentative, I just need to arrive at a coherent narrative before I can be religious.

 

[Gorgias]

Adam and Eve, according to theology, were Mesopotamians living roughly 6,000 years ago.

Only if you take the Bible from a fundamentalist, literalist perspective. Catholics are not required to be “young earth creationists”…

 

[Gorgias]

Scientific evidence indicates that enough humans to maintain genetic diversity migrated out of Africa approximately 75,000 years ago.

Of course, that doesn’t imply that they originated there: edge.org/conversation/rethinking-out-of-africa

 

[johnnyjones]

He referred to Adam because the Judeans were familiar with the Torah. People make literary references all the time. Further, the mounds of empirical evidence indicate otherwise. If we cannot trust the results of science, then nothing can be known.

The references to Adam & Eve and the Genesis creation account by Jesus are not parables, nor are they listed as “the parables of Jesus” by the Catholic church.

Jesus was a truth teller. He didn’t have to cater to the people of the time by telling them a ficticious story. Were the “Judeans” familiar with the messiah of the Torah being Jehovah God in human flesh? Jesus spoke multiple times of OT accounts and never did he make a clarification such as, "I want you to understand this whole idea that I’m your Hebrew God in the flesh, but this Adam and Eve stuff I want to keep you dumbed down about.

And more importantly, Jesus came from a literal Adam (Luke 3:38). Christianity requires a real Adam for a real Jesus. As a non believer I understand your quandary.

 

[grannymh]

The references to Adam & Eve and the Genesis creation account by Jesus are not parables, nor are they listed as “the parables of Jesus” by the Catholic church.

Jesus was a truth teller. He didn’t have to cater to the people of the time by telling them a ficticious story. Were the “Judeans” familiar with the messiah of the Torah being Jehovah God in human flesh? Jesus spoke multiple times of OT accounts and never did he make a clarification such as, "I want you to understand this whole idea that I’m your Hebrew God in the flesh, but this Adam and Eve stuff I want to keep you dumbed down about.

And more importantly, Jesus came from a literal Adam (Luke 3:38). Christianity requires a real Adam for a real Jesus. As a non believer I understand your quandary.

Luke 3: 23-38 establishes the human nature of Jesus. In addition, it establishes the divine nature of the living person Jesus Christ. Verse 38 reads: the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. As both True Man and True God, Jesus is the only person who could repair the shattered relationship between Adam, our first human ancestor, and our Creator.

The creed professed during Sunday’s Holy Sacrifice of the Mass explains the Person of Jesus this way. “I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,” …"“For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, He suffered death…”

We know that Adam was created with original holiness and justice not only for himself but also for all his descendants through the transmission of his human nature. When he turned against God, Adam’s original holiness, the means of his relationship with God, was lost. Consequently, his human nature was wounded by this deprivation. It is this state of a wounded nature which is transmitted to all of humanity.

Yet, God did not abandon man. Genesis 3: 9, 15 is read as God’s promise of a Savior. This passage is called the “first gospel”, i.e., the first announcement of the Messiah. The Old Testament tells us how God, through the prophets, guided mankind in their natural desire to have a relationship with their Creator. Still, there were people who chose sin.

When Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, assumed a true humanity, there was, at last, a person who could restore Adam’s broken relationship because Jesus was human as Adam was human. As is so apparent, we humans are not on the level of God. Because Jesus was divine, His act of obedience (salvific crucifixion) would be acceptable. Not only that, Jesus founded the Catholic Church so that He could continue to be with us in the Holy Eucharist. Jesus did not leave us orphans.

 

[johnnyjones]

Luke 3: 23-38 establishes the human nature of Jesus. In addition, it establishes the divine nature of the living person Jesus Christ. Verse 38 reads: the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. As both True Man and True God, Jesus is the only person who could repair the shattered relationship between Adam, our first human ancestor, and our Creator.

The creed professed during Sunday’s Holy Sacrifice of the Mass explains the Person of Jesus this way. “I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,” …"“For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, He suffered death…”

We know that Adam was created with original holiness and justice not only for himself but also for all his descendants through the transmission of his human nature. When he turned against God, Adam’s original holiness, the means of his relationship with God, was lost. Consequently, his human nature was wounded by this deprivation. It is this state of a wounded nature which is transmitted to all of humanity.

Yet, God did not abandon man. Genesis 3: 9, 15 is read as God’s promise of a Savior. This passage is called the “first gospel”, i.e., the first announcement of the Messiah. The Old Testament tells us how God, through the prophets, guided mankind in their natural desire to have a relationship with their Creator. Still, there were people who chose sin.

When Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, assumed a true humanity, there was, at last, a person who could restore Adam’s broken relationship because Jesus was human as Adam was human. As is so apparent, we humans are not on the level of God. Because Jesus was divine, His act of obedience (salvific crucifixion) would be acceptable. Not only that, Jesus founded the Catholic Church so that He could continue to be with us in the Holy Eucharist. Jesus did not leave us orphans.

This is why I pointed out to a non believer why we as catholic Christians must embrace a literal Adam and Eve and hold to it when questions arise that contrast our origins in relation to other world religions.

 

[grannymh]

. What I am most curious about is the Fall. Outside of figurative language, how did it happen if at all? .

The Fall happened because there is a difference between a supernatural God and a human being. Until a person can articulate this difference and what it means to a human being, especially the first human being, it is useless, in my humble opinion, to try to explain the Fall according to Catholicism.

Obviously, there are a lot of people who quietly ignore the difference between God Who is unrestricted Pure Spirit and human nature. It is easier to describe God in human terminology. That way, some tough facts can be avoided.

Obviously, there will be people, including other Christians, who do not believe in the Catholic position regarding the Adam story. Please note that Curiosity about something only requires understanding. Once understanding is obtained, then one has enough knowledge in order to make the decision to believe or not.

In my humble opinion, the Catholic position on the Fall is the most logical explanation of the world today. Catholicism is also the most logical explanation of happiness eternally. If only people could be open to understanding the basic truths which flow from the first three chapters of Genesis, human life would be more understandable.

Adam understood the basic truths recorded in the first three chapters of Genesis.

Interesting link. scborromeo.org/ccc/para/355.htm

Enter the Catechism at this link. The first option under the paragraph. Continue to explore all paragraphs 355-421.