Adam and Eve?

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Matt33

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Did they really exist as two real people> Can a Catholic or even a Christian believe that they were fictional? I understand we are free as Catholics to take the creations story as literal or contextual but are we free to take adam and eve as contextual people that are just meant to tell a story about human nature?
If the answer is yes you can believe they were fictional then when is the first real person in the Bible?
 
They were two real, individual people and the parents of all humans alive today. The Bible tells us that by one man sin entered the world. See Romans 5:12.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Thanks you guys but is there any form of Catholic teaching on this?
 
In the course, The Great Adventure (24 week Bible Timeline program by Jeff Cavins) it states that in 1909, The Pontifical Biblical Commission issued a decree interpreting the first chapters of Genesis as history, not myth. A “certain type of history” but still history. Regarding Genesis 1-3 they declared certain truths which must be held not matter what the latest scientific theories claim to the contrary. They are:
  1. God created all things at the beginning of time.
  2. Man was specially created.
  3. God created man male and female.
  4. All humans descend from a single original race.
  5. Our first parents lived in a happy state of justice, integrity and immortality.
  6. They disobeyed the divine command at the instigation of the devil, who took on the form of a serpent.
  7. Our first parents fell from their state of innocence.
  8. They were promised a future redeemer.
    He states the BIble is not a science book, and the first chapters of Genesis weren’t written so we’d know the scientific beginnings of the universe. They weren’t all about the facts as we are…they wove in story and poetic language to get across a deeper meaning.
 
[Catholic Dogma and Teaching on Creation (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p100.htm)

Dogmas and teachings on Creation and the Fall from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott (TAN Books, 1974), pages 79-122 on “The Divine Act of Creation” and “The Divine Work of Creation” :
  • God was moved by His Goodness to create the world. (De Fide)
  • The world was created for the Glorification of God. (De Fide)
  • The Three Divine Persons are one single, common Principle of the Creation. (De Fide)
  • God created the world free from exterior compulsion and inner necessity. (De Fide)
  • God has created a good world. (De Fide)
  • The world had a beginning in time. (De Fide)
  • God alone created the world. (De Fide)
  • God keeps all created things in existence. (De Fide)
  • God, through His Providence, protects and guides all that He has created. (De Fide)
  • The first man was created by God. (De Fide)
  • Man consists of two essential parts – a material body and a spiritual soul. (De Fide)
  • Every human being possesses an individual soul. (De Fide)
  • Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De Fide)
  • The * donum immortalitatis*, i.e. the divine gift of bodily immortality of our first parents. (De Fide)
  • Our first parents in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment. (De Fide)
  • Through the [original sin (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num54.htm) our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God. (De Fide)
  • Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil. (De Fide)
 
Matt33 said:
Thanks you guys but is there any form of Catholic teaching on this?
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The official Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

One can also put Adam, etc. in the *Catechism’s *search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.
 
Please try not to understand the story literally, you’ll confuse yourself. Its a Parable!
The story of Adam and Eve is just in fact that, a story. In the information age we live in we tend to look for sientific evidence for everything. Ask yourself this, Does it really matter if they were real?

The point of the story is not to make you doubt that they were real. The point of the story is to understand the meaning behind it. The meaning: we are now of a fallen human nature after original sin that was perpetrated by the first Man and Woman… And we are all in need of a divine saviour, God. At some point in human history we rejected God and heaven on earth. This is portrayed in the story of adam and eve. Dont take it so literally, you have to see past and understand the metaphors in the story in order to find the meaning.

Do you know the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”? If so, do you question if there was ever in history a person this story is based from? And again, Does it matter?? The point isn’t that the boy was real and historical, the point is the MEANING and the LESSON you learn from the story. It doesn’t matter if the boy was real or not, the lesson it teaches matters. The same applies to the story of Adam and Eve. And all of Jesus’ parables for that matter…
 
TxPatriot281 said:
Please try not to understand the story literally, you’ll confuse yourself. Its a Parable!
The story of Adam and Eve is just in fact that, a story.

.
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Do you have a Magisterial document that shows this? Do you have a document that and date that the Church overturned the constant teaching and belief?
 
TxPatriot281 said:
Please try not to understand the story literally, you’ll confuse yourself. Its a Parable!
The story of Adam and Eve is just in fact that, a story. In the information age we live in we tend to look for sientific evidence for everything. Ask yourself this, Does it really matter if they were real?
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Your question: “Does it really matter if they [Adam and Eve] were real?”

Answer: The reality of Adam and Eve does matter to those who believe in Catholicism.

The official Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.
One can also use the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

The quest for truth is worthy of the adventures of the journey.
 
TxPatriot281 said:
Do you know the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”? If so, do you question if there was ever in history a person this story is based from? And again, Does it matter?? The point isn’t that the boy was real and historical, the point is the MEANING and the LESSON you learn from the story. It doesn’t matter if the boy was real or not, the lesson it teaches matters. The same applies to the story of Adam and Eve. And all of Jesus’ parables for that matter…
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Does the boy who cried wolf appear in the first chapters of Genesis? Where?
Oopps 😊 that is a story with a meaning. O.K. Where is that meaning in Genesis?
In fact, please explain all the meanings in the first chapters of Genesis. *Genesis *is the first book in the Bible.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.
 
Originally posted by grannymh
Does the boy who cried wolf appear in the first chapters of Genesis? Where?
Oopps that is a story with a meaning. O.K. Where is that meaning in Genesis?
In fact, please explain all the meanings in the first chapters of Genesis. Genesis is the first book in the Bible.
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NO there is no biblical meaning for the story of the boy who cries wolf. I wasn’t saying that. I was suggesting to view the 2 different stories similarly. By not getting caught up wondering if they were real people (I beleive it entirely possible that it happened exactly how the book of Genesis states, and that they were real people). But to get caught up in the mere question of their real existence is futile and misses the bigger picture. The big problem of original sin and how it was overcome by the life, death, and ressurection of Jesus Christ.

If you want an explanation to specific meanings in the creation story please use specific examples, and i’ll do my best to explain them as they were explained to me by the priest who taught me.
 
TxPatriot281 said:
NO there is no biblical meaning for the story of the boy who cries wolf. I wasn’t saying that. I was suggesting to view the 2 different stories similarly. By not getting caught up wondering if they were real people (I beleive it entirely possible that it happened exactly how the book of Genesis states, and that they were real people). But to get caught up in the mere question of their real existence is futile and misses the bigger picture. The big problem of original sin and how it was overcome by the life, death, and ressurection of Jesus Christ.

If you want an explanation to specific meanings in the creation story please use specific examples, and i’ll do my best to explain them as they were explained to me by the priest who taught me.
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Without a real Adam and Eve, there is no big problem of original sin. This is why the Church founded by our loving Savior maintains the reality of our first parents.

Thank you for the kind offer to explain specific meanings in the creation story. My apology. Sometimes, I get carried away thinking about the first chapters in Genesis. I get so frustrated with some of the “discussions” about *Genesis *that I want to stamp my foot and demand the real meaning. I do that on my cranky days.:o

Nonetheless, at the moment my off line research centers on the two sole parents of the human species because that is a dogma of Catholicism. This is time consuming. Even though the rest of the creation story is totally fascinating, I need to practice some discipline regarding use of time on CAF.

Blessings,
granny

Spring is the message of hope sent by the Creator.
 
djeter said:
on that pesky “created man in his own image stuff”

dj
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It is a very good thing that the Catholic Church exists – because it teaches the truth about human nature.

Please note.
Human nature is not, and I repeat not, pesky. True, human nature has pesky flaws. But once you find out what the Catholic Church teaches about the real human nature and the real “image of God”, you will look in your mirror in amazement. 👍

Blessing,
granny

Human nature is worthy of profound respect.
 
TxPatriot281 said:
NO there is no biblical meaning for the story of the boy who cries wolf. I wasn’t saying that. I was suggesting to view the 2 different stories similarly. By not getting caught up wondering if they were real people (I beleive it entirely possible that it happened exactly how the book of Genesis states, and that they were real people). But to get caught up in the mere question of their real existence is futile and misses the bigger picture. The big problem of original sin and how it was overcome by the life, death, and ressurection of Jesus Christ.

If you want an explanation to specific meanings in the creation story please use specific examples, and i’ll do my best to explain them as they were explained to me by the priest who taught me.
Click to expand...
If this is your position then where are there real historical people who existed in the bible? Are there any at all in Genesis? Cain, abel, Abraham? Or in the pentetuech. Did Moses exist? Was there an Exodus with miracles? Jesus? David? Paul? Which ones are real and which ones are fake?
If God authors the Bible through man and shepards His people… How do we believe that the Eucharist is the actual Body and Blood but Adam is just an allegorical legend? How in the world do you even believe there was a fall?
 
Matt33 said:
Did they really exist as two real people
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Quite probably yes, we can find at least one couple from whom all the current human race is descended. Biologists will tell you that all living humans are descended from Mitochondrial Eve. If she only had one mate then that is your couple. If any of her ancestors in the strictly matrilineal line had only one mate then that couple are also ancestors to all living humans.

The difference with the standard interpretation of the Genesis story is that there were other humans alive at the same time who were not descended from that couple. It is just that their descendants intermarried with the descendants of the ancestral couple so all subsequent children can trace back to that ancestral couple.

rossum
 
Catholics are told quite plainly that all human beings descended from Adam and Eve. There were no others. The goal, here, is to try to convince people that self-upgrading hominids turned into humans one day. That their minds, which we are told were also self-upgrading, could detect or invent a ‘god/gods concept’ but purely as a survival mechanism. There is no connection of that idea with Church teaching.

However, it would be to the advantage of secular humanists to have a one size fits all creation story. Religious types could add god/gods and/or a soul to the whole thing. Concepts which they don’t believe in anyway and easily discarded. This would make the textbooks “true,” and even acceptable to those religious types. But that’s not likely to happen because biology texts already contain conclusions that man was just a lucky accident all the way up to stating that there was no plan behind man’s appearance on earth. According to one poster here, we are just matter in motion. Slightly more complicated snowflakes that can walk, talk and think.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Catholics are told quite plainly that all human beings descended from Adam and Eve. There were no others. The goal, here, is to try to convince people that self-upgrading hominids turned into humans one day. That their minds, which we are told were also self-upgrading, could detect or invent a ‘god/gods concept’ but purely as a survival mechanism. There is no connection of that idea with Church teaching.
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Could not God have added a human soul to a pre-existing hominid? Genesis seems to describe a two-stage process with the use of clay followed by God breathing. Evolution would equate to moulding the clay and ensoulment to the breathing. It is obvious that God does not physically breathe so at least part of this passage is not literal in the simplistic sense.

rossum
 
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