Adam and Eve

[Splinker]

The original sin was sex. Adam and eve lost their innocence when they has sex with each other, something god had told them never to do. because they did this we are all sinful in nature.

really?

 

[Detales]

Headsmith’s reminder that “Adam” means “Man” is a clue to the interpretation of the Garden story, which in fact is symbolic. The Garden story is a parable about the shift in awareness from the animal instinct of our predecessors to the subject/object awareness that developed through language into the “modern” human awareness. It was a “fall” only in the sense of a discontinuity in the total participation of the new Man on an instinctual level. He became aware to the point of having the ability to make distinctions and reason as distinct from instinctually reacting. Furthermore, I don’t believe that the literal interpretation of the Adam and Eve parable is dogma.

We know now that the regaining of the Garden can be a metaphor for the kind of realization that caused Aquinas to say that his life work was “as straw” and made him wish to burn it. Fortunately, that didn’t happen, but the culmination of his life realization is about the last piece of evidence used to interpret his work. We have to understand our religious ideas as being metaphorical until we can actually see. This is particularly evident in the Identity statements attributed to Jesus when they are taken from the standpoint of Aquinas’ final realization.

 

[JulieAA]

What are the thoughts among you, that it was Adam’s responsibility to correct Eve. Were Adam and Eve “equally” held responsible? Was Eve to be subservant to Adam? What if Eve herself sinned and Adam did not take part?

 

[Detales]

There was not “correction” to be made. If “Eve,” the Feminine principle of awareness, had “sinned”* and not Adam, then males would be brutes incapable of thinking and civilization, such as it might have been, would have been carried forward by women alone. Considering that civilization has been defined by some as the battle against testosterone, that may actually have been a better idea, no?

*A root meaning of “sin” is “to miss the point.”

 

[itinerant1]

Headsmith’s reminder that “Adam” means “Man” is a clue to the interpretation of the Garden story, which in fact is symbolic. The Garden story is a parable about the shift in awareness from the animal instinct of our predecessors to the subject/object awareness that developed through language into the “modern” human awareness. It was a “fall” only in the sense of a discontinuity in the total participation of the new Man on an instinctual level. He became aware to the point of having the ability to make distinctions and reason as distinct from instinctually reacting. Furthermore, I don’t believe that the literal interpretation of the Adam and Eve parable is dogma.

To the contrary, what you have said about the story of Adam and Eve is contrary to Church dogma and the NT. The Fall involved the sin of the first two human beings, whom we call Adam and Eve. It was a fall from the state theologically termed Original Justice, in which our first parents had been graced with preternatural gifts.

There is an actual historical reality being described in figurative language. Aquinas can fill you in on the sinful act, and the Fall from grace: The First Man’s Sin

 

[itinerant1]

There was not “correction” to be made. If “Eve,” the Feminine principle of awareness, had “sinned”* and not Adam, then males would be brutes incapable of thinking and civilization, such as it might have been, would have been carried forward by women alone. Considering that civilization has been defined by some as the battle against testosterone, that may actually have been a better idea, no?

*A root meaning of “sin” is “to miss the point.”

Rather, it is to “miss the mark” (hamartia), as an archer who missess the target.

 

[itinerant1]

There was not “correction” to be made. If “Eve,” the Feminine principle of awareness, had “sinned”* and not Adam, then males would be brutes incapable of thinking and civilization, such as it might have been, would have been carried forward by women alone. Considering that civilization has been defined by some as the battle against testosterone, that may actually have been a better idea, no?

*A root meaning of “sin” is “to miss the point.”

“Eve, the Feminine principle of awareness” sounds like some New Age spin on Genesis.

 

[Detales]

Dear 1, Catholic mind = Catholic thoughts. You might try looking a bit deeper than your mind, eh?

 

[Leyden]

You need to re-read the story of Adam and Eve.

Original Sin is called Original because it is the loss of Original Justice by Adam and Eve through their willful disobedience to God’s command, which is sin. Hence, Adam and Eve were cursed with the consequences of their sin, all of which took place prior to the sin of Cain:

"To the woman he said: I shall give you intense pain in childbearing, you will give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.

"To the man he said, 'Because you listened to the voice of your wife and ate from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat, Accursed be the soil because of you! Painfully will you get your food from it as long as you live.

"It will yield you brambles and thistles, as you eat the produce of the land.

"By the sweat of your face will you earn your food, until you return to the ground, as you were taken from it. For dust you are and to dust you shall return.’ "

I am more than aware they were cursed, however, in Genesis from the beginning of Adam and Eve’s story to the end of it there is NO mention of sin in regard to their actions. Simply because they are cursed you cannot go as far as to say they have sinned. The text does not support that claim.

This idea that Original Sin was Adam and Eve’s disobedience comes from sources and literary influences outside of the Old Testament text.

Although I do know Paul( Romans) said “Sin came into the world through one man…” and this was later translated from Latin by Augustine, as saying the same thing (Original Sin was Adam and Eve’s disobedience), I disagree.

This is not to say I disrespect Catholic beliefs or the fact that Adam’s fall is a foundation for Western Christianity, but I myself believe Gen. 1-5 tell the true story. And in these chapters there is no mention of sin in relation to Adam and Eve.

And if anyone does disagree with this, which is more than understandable, take into account that I am personally reading and interpreting what these chapters say… and is this not the same thing Paul and St. Augustine did?

Once again no intention to push anyone’s buttons.

 

[grannymh]

Is that what the church teaches?

This is what the Catholic Church teaches.

Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve and Original Sin
is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put paragraph numbers and topics such as Adam, etc. in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[grannymh]

but I myself believe Gen. 1-5 tell the true story. And in these chapters there is no mention of sin in relation to Adam and Eve.

And if anyone does disagree with this, which is more than understandable, take into account that I am personally reading and interpreting what these chapters say… and is this not the same thing Paul and St. Augustine did?

Once again no intention to push anyone’s buttons.

Would you please describe what you think sin is?

 

[Detales]

Thanks, “1,” for the correction on “miss the mark.”

 

[Leyden]

Would you please describe what you think sin is?

Hi grannymh,

On a personal note I think sin is any action an individual commits that is done with negative or malicious intentions. But I do not think that Eve’s taking from the tree and Adam taking from her were acts meant to harm anyone. Also one has to take into account who put the snake in the garden? And didn’t God say eating from the tree would kill them?

Yet God created the snake and placed him in the garden and the fruit did not kill them.

 

[grannymh]

Hi grannymh,

On a personal note I think sin is any action an individual commits that is done with negative or malicious intentions. But I do not think that Eve’s taking from the tree and Adam taking from her were acts meant to harm anyone. Also one has to take into account who put the snake in the garden? And didn’t God say eating from the tree would kill them?

Yet God created the snake and placed him in the garden and the fruit did not kill them.

Thank you for the courtesy of replying. Pardon me, but I have observed that many Catholics either were not taught about Original Sin or else they were taught incorrectly.

May I suggest looking over Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism.

Original Sin is far more than negative or malicious intentions. It broke the relationship between God and Adam and consequently wounded human nature which would be inherited by us. Braking one’s relationship with God results in serious harm for the person who willfully chooses himself over and above his Creator. Because Adam was the first of the human species, we, as humans, share in his sin.

Regarding God’s words about the “tree” one has to read the actual words and place them in context. One also has to understand that the snake was the description of Satin who was temping Adam to scorn his Creator.

Blessings,
granny

Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put paragraph numbers and topics such as Adam, etc. in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[Albert_Nygren]

To Layden: I used to think like you do and it got me in a lot of trouble. When I was in my early 20’s I was a Protestant (I became Catholic in 1970 when I was 27 y/o) and I believed the same thing. I believed in God and Jesus but I didn’t believe The Bible. I thought that as long as I didn’t hurt anyone else that I could do whatever I wanted to do.

What I didn’t realize is that only God can foresee what all the consequences of our actions will be. This is a confession: When I was 24 y/o I met a woman that I liked,and we started dating. She didn’t tell me until our 4th date that she was married. She said that her marriage was over and that both her and her husband dated other people. She told me that she hadn’t gotten a divorce yet as she didn’t have the money. She also said that her and her husband still lived in the same house because it was cheaper and more convenient.

So, like a fool, I continued to have a sexual relationship with her. Usually it’s the married man who wants an affair who tells a women that kind of thing. I guess it’s not only men who do that. Anyway, I committed the sin of Adultery, no matter what my intentions were. I don’t know whether she or her husband were hut by my behavior (I can’t believe that it helped their marriage) but I was terribly hurt. I fell in love with her and she was my first real love.

I can’t tell you how much emotional pain I experienced when she dumped me. Also, it took me 5 years to really get over her and of course the pain and dishonesty hurt my relationships with women for many years. I didn’t get married until I was 40 y/o and we didn’t have children. I can’t say for sure, but possibly if I had obeyed God’s commandment, I would have gotten married sooner and had children.

I wish that I had known earlier that God knows what behavior will hurt others and ourselves and that He gave us His Commandments not only so that we don’t hurt others without knowing it but also for our protection. God bless you and may His Holy Spirit guide you in all things.

Albert Nygern

 

[grannymh]

To Layden: I used to think like you do and it got me in a lot of trouble. When I was in my early 20’s I was a Protestant (I became Catholic in 1970 when I was 27 y/o) and I believed the same thing. I believed in God and Jesus but I didn’t believe The Bible. I thought that as long as I didn’t hurt anyone else that I could do whatever I wanted to do.

What I didn’t realize is that only God can foresee what all the consequences of our actions will be. This is a confession: When I was 24 y/o I met a woman that I liked,and we started dating. She didn’t tell me until our 4th date that she was married. She said that her marriage was over and that both her and her husband dated other people. She told me that she hadn’t gotten a divorce yet as she didn’t have the money. She also said that her and her husband still lived in the same house because it was cheaper and more convenient.

So, like a fool, I continued to have a sexual relationship with her. Usually it’s the married man who wants an affair who tells a women that kind of thing. I guess it’s not only men who do that. Anyway, I committed the sin of Adultery, no matter what my intentions were. I don’t know whether she or her husband were hut by my behavior (I can’t believe that it helped their marriage) but I was terribly hurt. I fell in love with her and she was my first real love.

I can’t tell you how much emotional pain I experienced when she dumped me. Also, it took me 5 years to really get over her and of course the pain and dishonesty hurt my relationships with women for many years. I didn’t get married until I was 40 y/o and we didn’t have children. I can’t say for sure, but possibly if I had obeyed God’s commandment, I would have gotten married sooner and had children.

I wish that I had known earlier that God knows what behavior will hurt others and ourselves and that He gave us His Commandments not only so that we don’t hurt others without knowing it but also for our protection. God bless you and may His Holy Spirit guide you in all things.

Albert Nygern

Thank you for sharing a very difficult experience. May you continue to grow in courage. And may God continue to bless you and your loved ones as you seek His will.

Blessings,
granny

John 20: 24-31