Adam and Eve

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FrancisBenedict said:
It’s never right to disobey God.

Birth is a gift from God not the fruit of Adam’s sin.

Christ has overcome Adam’s sin by his voluntary sacrifice and overcome death.

God bless you+
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Thanks for the clarity:thumbsup:
 
TheIrishman said:
i’m intrigued. How do you justify this?
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Simple my friend. The simple answer:

We sin due to weakness. It is also true that we are not so weak that we are unable to resist temptation. God gives us grace to do what is right and to grow in virtue. Although we are weak, we can always resist. We cannot excuse ourselves by claiiming ignorance of the intellect or weakness of the will. We do evil because we want to.

Sin requires us to consciously choose to do wrong. While true the Devil tempted the first woman, we could have sinned without the Devil’s temptation,too. Sin does not need the external temptation of a demon; our own freedom is enough to produce it.
 
Nicea325 said:
Simple my friend. The simple answer:

We sin due to weakness. It is also true that we are not so weak that we are unable to resist temptation. God gives us grace to do what is right and to grow in virtue. Although we are weak, we can always resist. We cannot excuse ourselves by claiiming ignorance of the intellect or weakness of the will. We do evil because we want to.

Sin requires us to consciously choose to do wrong. While true the Devil tempted the first woman, we could have sinned without the Devil’s temptation,too.
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I understand that for us after the fall but not for Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil until after partaking of the fruit. They were told to not eat that particular fruit, and they didn’t until Satan tempted them. Did they know Satan was tempting them to disobey God? I don’t know. But IMO, I don’t think Adam and Even would have eaten the fruit without Satan being there.
 
TheIrishman said:
I understand that for us after the fall but not for Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil until after partaking of the fruit. They were told to not eat that particular fruit, and they didn’t until Satan tempted them. Did they know Satan was tempting them to disobey God? I don’t know. But IMO, I don’t think Adam and Even would have eaten the fruit without Satan being there.
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Sorry, but you are wrong. I’ll say it again:

We do evil because we want to. Sin requires us to consciously choose to do wrong. While true the Devil tempted the first woman, we could have sinned without the Devil’s temptation,too.

**Sin does not need the external temptation of a demon; our own freedom is enough to produce it. **
 
Nicea325 said:
Sorry, but you are wrong. I’ll say it again:

We do evil because we want to. Sin requires us to consciously choose to do wrong. While true the Devil tempted the first woman, we could have sinned without the Devil’s temptation,too.

**Sin does not need the external temptation of a demon; our own freedom is enough to produce it. **
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After I read it in this context it makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks for clarifying:thumbsup:
 
TheIrishman said:
I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing?
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God gave only man a free will. With that Adam decided to do what he was asked not to do by God. Of course not good.
TheIrishman said:
I’ve been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world.
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What a stupidity! Do they say giving birth is a sin and they could do only because Adam disobeyed. If they had not disobeyed God their children would have been born without original sin.
TheIrishman said:
Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?
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Just imagine how it would be if everybody in the world were like Mother Mary? Wouldnt it be a paradise here?
TheIrishman said:
next question, Is it a literal story or a symbolic story? I’ve been taught its a literal story, but i would like to hear your thoughts on it.
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Symbolic story. I think first 12 chapters in genesis are pre-historical.
TheIrishman said:
Is Adam the Archangel Michael? Again, this is a common teaching in the LDS faith and would like to get your opinion on it.
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Adam was created man. Michael is angel. A step above man
TheIrishman said:
And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam? A common teaching in the LDS faith is that we are accountable for our own sins and not for Adam’s transgression.
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How can we be accountable for something what we have not done from our free-will??
 
TheIrishman said:
Well, actually yes. Without Satan, we wouldn’t know good from evil and be able to find happiness with God. Because Adam disobeyed and was cast from the Garden of Eden, they were able to have children and teach them the consequences of disobeying God vs the blessings of following His commandments. Disobedience can be a learning tool, i’m not saying we should go out and disobey everything and that makes it ok, but thats how we learn. From the mistakes of others and the successes of others.

So then I would also assume ya’ll don’t believe Noah is the angel Gabriel either? 😉
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Catholicism teaches that because of human nature which includes intellect and will, Adam knew good from evil long before Satan tempted him.
 
TheIrishman said:
I’m not saying that I am applauding Adam for disobeying God. I’m just saying that without him and eve’s choice, we wouldn’t be here.
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This is a common, but very strange belief among Mormons; that somehow Adam and Eve could not have procreated unless they sinned. But God created them, from the beginning, as male and female. Their very natures were created to give life by becoming one with each other.

I have had this conversation with Mormons many times and they always defend Adam and Eve’s choice to disobey God as something that God had planned. He gave them two commands, according to the Mormon position. The first was to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The second was to be fruitful and multiply. Somehow they believe that they could not be fruitful and multiply if they stayed in the Garden, therefore their choice to disobey God was a good thing. This, of course, means that God was complicit in their sin. He gives two apparent commands, each of which cannot be obeyed if the other is obeyed. 🤷

The fact is that we could all have been living in the garden. That is a possibility. The reality is that we are all just as much sinners as Adam and Eve and require a Savior.
 
grannymh said:
Catholicism teaches that because of human nature which includes intellect and will, Adam knew good from evil long before Satan tempted him.
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They knew it was wrong before they did it or it wouldn’t have been wrong.
 
SteveVH said:
They knew it was wrong before they did it or it wouldn’t have been wrong.
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That is what I have been explaining to TheIrishman. Mormons want to blame it striclty on the Devil. Adam and Eve were not dumb to know right from wrong.
 
Nicea325 said:
That is what I have been explaining to TheIrishman. Mormons want to blame it striclty on the Devil. Adam and Eve were not dumb to know right from wrong.
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It seems from what I can gather that the Mormon view of Adam and Eve in the Garden was two people walking around in a complete fog, not knowing right from wrong. They didn’t even know how to procreate until they did the right thing and disobeyed God. It’s all very bizarre.
 
SteveVH said:
It seems from what I can gather that the Mormon view of Adam and Eve in the Garden was two people walking around in a complete fog, not knowing right from wrong. They didn’t even know how to procreate until they did the right thing and disobeyed God. It’s all very bizarre.
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It is very bizarre. They act as though both were completely lost and like two little innocent 3 year olds not knowing right from wrong.

I totally agree with your interpretation about Mormons view of Adam and Eve.
 
Nicea325 said:
It is very bizarre. They act as though both were completely lost and like two little innocent 3 year olds not knowing right from wrong.

I totally agree with your interpretation about Mormons view of Adam and Eve.
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Adam and Eve were actually just the opposite of the Mormon portrayal. They were created by God, in his image and likeness. Their bodies were perfect, not subject to imperfection, disease or decay. Their intellects were untouched by the consequences of sin (darkening of the intellect and weakening of the will). They were perfect human beings, super-humans, one might say, so perfect that they could walk with God.
 
SteveVH said:
This is a common, but very strange belief among Mormons; that somehow Adam and Eve could not have procreated unless they sinned. But God created them, from the beginning, as male and female. Their very natures were created to give life by becoming one with each other.

I have had this conversation with Mormons many times and they always defend Adam and Eve’s choice to disobey God as something that God had planned. He gave them two commands, according to the Mormon position. The first was to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The second was to be fruitful and multiply. Somehow they believe that they could not be fruitful and multiply if they stayed in the Garden, therefore their choice to disobey God was a good thing. This, of course, means that God was complicit in their sin. He gives two apparent commands, each of which cannot be obeyed if the other is obeyed. 🤷

The fact is that we could all have been living in the garden. That is a possibility. The reality is that we are all just as much sinners as Adam and Eve and require a Savior.
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This is actually basic knowledge to a mormon, I never thought it was wrong or anything was funny about it because i didn’t have anything to compare it too. But it makes sense, why would God give Adam and Eve a commandment that they couldn’t follow without first disobeying God?
 
grannymh said:
Catholicism teaches that because of human nature which includes intellect and will, Adam knew good from evil long before Satan tempted him.
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LDS theology teaches us that Adam and Eve were like “little children”. not actual little children but in their innocence. Thats why Mormons put such an emphasis on Satan.
 
SteveVH said:
It seems from what I can gather that the Mormon view of Adam and Eve in the Garden was two people walking around in a complete fog, not knowing right from wrong. They didn’t even know how to procreate until they did the right thing and disobeyed God. It’s all very bizarre.
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bizare and spot on with LDS theology. They didn’t know good from evil because they hadn’t eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil yet. So we are taught they were innocent like a little child.
 
grannymh said:
What is easy to forget is that Adam, being the creature, needed to live in obedience to the commands of our Creator. Adam, being both spiritual and material, would never be equal to God. Notice that the real temptation by Satan was for Adam to be like gods who know everything. .
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NOW I Get it! Did you ever notice how quickly children pick up the trait of thinking they KNOW everything??? This is where it comes from-- our fallen nature from Adam and Eve…
 
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