Adam and Eve

[SteveVH]

This is actually basic knowledge to a mormon, I never thought it was wrong or anything was funny about it because i didn’t have anything to compare it too. But it makes sense, why would God give Adam and Eve a commandment that they couldn’t follow without first disobeying God?

Yeah, its like God commanding someone to drive 60 miles within 30 minutes but he is not allowed to break the speed limit. It is an impossible situation. If you don’t reach your destination within 30 minutes you will be punished. If you break the speed limit, you will be punished. God never causes anyone to sin. Adam and Eve had no choice but to sin because God gave them no choice but to sin if one accepts the Mormon position. Any reasonable person can see that this is not a predicament in which a wise, just and loving God would place his children.

 

[LivingWaters7]

bizare and spot on with LDS theology. They didn’t know good from evil because they hadn’t eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil yet. So we are taught they were innocent like a little child.

Well I think it’s a common understanding that Adam and Eve were in a state of innocence (this doesn’t mean they were naive).

Also, I think it’s clear that Adam and Eve lacked some sort of knowledge of good and evil that God has, that they received when they ate from the tree:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

I think the main problem with the LDS understanding of the Fall is why would God give two supposedly contradictory, in the LDS understanding, commandments (i.e. be fruitful and multiply and do not eat from that tree).

 

[SteveVH]

bizare and spot on with LDS theology. They didn’t know good from evil because they hadn’t eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil yet. So we are taught they were innocent like a little child.

If it was all the devil’s fault; if he had simply taken advantage of two innocent beings who otherwise would have done the right thing had they not been tricked, why did God react as he did?

*"16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."* (Genesis 3:16-19, KJV)

Sounds like a pretty harsh reaction if they were only doing what God willed, doesn’t it?

 

[SteveVH]

Well I think it’s a common understanding that Adam and Eve were in a state of innocence (this doesn’t mean they were naive).

Yes, they were in a state of original innocence which means free from sin (not guilty) rather than in a state of naivety. They had perfect intellect, they were not stupid.

Also, I think it’s clear that Adam and Eve lacked some sort of knowledge of good and evil that God has, that they received when they ate from the tree:

Well, it is obvious that Adam and Eve certainly knew “good” because they walked with “goodness” Himself in the Garden. The best they could hope for was to now know evil as well, and they got that for which they asked. The serpent sowed seeds of doubt in Adam and Eve. Was God holding something back from them? Why couldn’t they eat of the fruit of this tree? They lost trust in their Creator and desired to be like God, but apart from God. It is quite obvious that they did not receive what was promised by the serpent. They did not become gods.

 

[Nicea325]

Adam and Eve were actually just the opposite of the Mormon portrayal. **They were created by God, in his image and likeness. **Their bodies were perfect, not subject to imperfection, disease or decay. Their intellects were untouched by the consequences of sin (darkening of the intellect and weakening of the will). They were perfect human beings, super-humans, one might say, so perfect that they could walk with God.

Exactly! How could they be created in His image and likeness and yet not know about right from wrong? In essence, it is to state God is clueles about virtue. :ehh:

 

[Nicea325]

LDS theology teaches us that Adam and Eve were like “little children”. not actual little children but in their innocence. Thats why Mormons put such an emphasis on Satan.

Which I proved is false and Adam and Eve could have sinned without any external influence (Devil).

 

[Isaiah45_9]

NOW I Get it! Did you ever notice how quickly children pick up the trait of thinking they KNOW everything??? This is where it comes from-- our fallen nature from Adam and Eve…

Preaching to the choir… I have 3 teenagers (16, 15, 13)… :banghead::banghead::banghead:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

LDS theology teaches us that Adam and Eve were like “little children”. not actual little children but in their innocence. Thats why Mormons put such an emphasis on Satan.

Anyone who has children can tell you that children do know when they do something wrong, lol. The get all red and their face looks down, lol.

 

[Nicea325]

Preaching to the choir… I have 3 teenagers (16, 15, 13)… :banghead::banghead::banghead:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Let us not forget, we were all teenages at one time. I was one from 1983-1989.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Since we are on the Adam and Eve subject.

“6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened,”

I have always find it curious how Eve’s eyes didn’t open before Adam’s, since she ate of the fruit first.

It is not until they both eat that it happens.

Just a thought.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Let us not forget, we were all teenages at one time. I was one from 1983-1989.

I apologize often to my parents for that, lol.

 

[Nicea325]

I apologize often to my parents for that, lol.

Aahhhh…sure miss the 80’s. Great time to be a teenager: no personal lap-tops,cell phones (unless you had big $$$ and trucked around a brick for a phone) no youtube,GPS,etc,etc.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Aahhhh…sure miss the 80’s. Great time to be a teenager: no personal lap-tops,cell phones (unless you had big $$$ and trucked around a brick for a phone) no youtube,GPS,etc,etc.

Long live the 80’s :egyptian:

Yeah - 80 to 86

 

[Nicea325]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mekw22bJ4z1r8o0xao1_500.gif

Long live the 80’s :egyptian:

Yeah - 80 to 86

Mr.John Bender from Breakfast Club!

Your mine Bender…I’ve got you for two months… Classic…classic 80’s.

I graduated in '88-how about you?

 

[TheIrishman]

Which I proved is false and Adam and Eve could have sinned without any external influence (Devil).

i’m not sayint i believe it, i was just letting the poster know what the LDS taught and thought of Adam and Eve. I personally believe the Catholic position a little more.

 

[Nicea325]

i’m not sayint i believe it, i was just letting the poster know what the LDS taught and thought of Adam and Eve. I personally believe the Catholic position a little more.

Study it more in depth and trust me, you will find out the Mormon position is false. Big problem I encounter with Mormons is that they worship a different God or should I say god.?

 

[TheIrishman]

Anyone who has children can tell you that children do know when they do something wrong, lol. The get all red and their face looks down, lol.

After reasoning and talking it all out in the forums i’ve come to realize how silly it is to think that God would create naive Adam and Eve and they wouldn’t know how to do anything. Even my 2 year old niece knows when she does something wrong.

Oh, on a side note, I’ve also been taught that Adam and Eve were in the Garden for about 900 years.

 

[TheIrishman]

Study it more in depth and trust me, you will find out the Mormon position is false. Big problem I encounter with Mormons is that they worship a different God or should I say god.?

This is a big problem that I had while ON my mission. I always had companions that would fight to be accepted as Christians or worshiping same God as others who accused us of worshiping different gods.

I had no problem with it because if you think about it, It’s completely different! The only thing that the Catholic God has in common with the Mormon God is they are both supreme beings. Mormons don’t even like to refer to God as God, they’ll refer to Him as Heavenly Father(changes name). Mormon God has a body(changed nature). Mormon God is separate and distinct from Jesus(Also change in nature). There is nothing similar to either God so I don’t see why the church is so hellbent on trying to have other Christians call us Christian or say we worship the same God just differently. We don’t

 

[PJM]

=TheIrishman

I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing? I’ve been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world. Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?

First my friend; WELCOME TO CAF!

The CC teaches that the STORY of Adam and Eve is a Moral Allegory: Adam and Eve being “REAL” but perhaps by different names? And a STORY with a true Moral message and lesson. The details as articulated need not, but can be believed.

God Created man who choose to not only sin grievously; but actually attacked the very Sovereignty of God; but desiring to “be like, equal to God. Thus the consequences were & are so serious.

What you were taught mitigates God’s plan. In reading Gen. 1: 26-28 we discover that there WAS NO NEED to sin; God’s Plan already had “offspring” covered.

“And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth”

As to the paradise question. If we limit mans POSSIBLE disobedience to Adam and Eve alone; then yes. We would ALL be in paradise. BUT only God knows if the future offspring might have caused at some time; in some way and similarly serious affront to God? But each descendent; possessing a mind, intellect and freewill MAY HAVE? Caused a similar consequence?

next question, Is it a literal story or a symbolic story? I’ve been taught its a literal story, but i would like to hear your thoughts on it

I just answered that

Is Adam the Archangel Michael? Again, this is a common teaching in the LDS faith and would like to get your opinion on it

NO! There is nothing to indicate this; or for that matter; LDS believes of “god the father” or Jesus as NOT God. Ect.

And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam? A common teaching in the LDS faith is that we are accountable for our own sins and not for Adam’s transgression

GREAT question.

We would have to define your [LDS] understanding of the term “accountable.”

If it means that mankind some how “caused it”; NO!

If it means only that consequences FLOWED by and through it: then YES!

But what I think you may be asking is this? Did and DOES the sin of our First parents play a critical role in mans POSSIBLE salvation? And the answer is YES is did and does.

Because A & E sinned is a manner that Questioned Gods Sovereign Rights to do as HE deems fit; the actions and choice is in God’s idea of Justice [In an absolute sense He did not HAVE to Create man at all]; necessary for all humanity be equally charged with this sin; KNOWING that He would offer a manner to OFFSET IT.

Space is limited so I can’t be more precise here. PLEASE keep asking questions!

God Bless you,
Pat /PJM here on CAF

 

[SteveVH]

The only thing that the Catholic God has in common with the Mormon God is they are both supreme beings.

Actually, that isn’t even true. Doesn’t the Mormon god have a god of his own? Isn’t there an eternal regression of gods? In that case no god is supreme, he always has someone above him. The only way that God can be supreme is if He is the only eternal being; the Author and Creator of all else that exists.