Adam, Eve, and Mary?

[MeekandHumble]

I’ve read here and many other places that most catholics consider Mary to be our mother/mother of all.

My question for catholics is this: Do you consider Mary to be our mother? If you consider Mary to be our mother, then do you consider Eve to be the mother of all (human race)?

Also, you can add extra statements to further explain and to help me understand what and why you believe this.

 

[Poco]

Well, I’m not Catholic, yet!

But, having said that… This is part of wht the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say about Eve:

“The name of the first woman, the wife of Adam, the mother of Cain, Abel, and Seth. The name occurs only five times in the Bible. In Genesis 3:20, it is connected etymologically with the verb meaning “to live”: “And Adam called the name of his wife Eve [hawwah]: because she was the mother of all the living”. The Septuagint rendering in this passage is Zoe (=life, or life-giver), which is a translation; in two other passages (Genesis 4:1 and 25) the name is transliterated Eua. The Biblical data concerning Eve are confined almost exclusively to the second, third, and fourth chapters of Genesis (see ADAM).”

Mary, on the other hand, is considered “The Mother of God” because she was chosen and “accepted the job” of being the mother of Christ Jesus.

I hope this helps a bit. I’m sure if I’ve made any errors, someone will correct them!

 

[Big_Ro]

This is very interesting. I wonder if this makes any sense. Jesus is a second Adam so could Mary be considered a second Eve?

 

[MeekandHumble]

This is very interesting. I wonder if this makes any sense. Jesus is a second Adam so could Mary be considered a second Eve?

Well, I know that Jesus is the second Adam, and I know what the catholic encyclopedia says about Eve being the mother of Cain, Able, and Seth. Doesn’t the bible say that Adam and Eve had other kids (sons and daughters)? Not to sidetrack the thread or anything.

Mary being a second Eve, I don’t know. I will have to study more on the subject. I have never heard of that comparison, which is why I have so many questions.

 

[SteveVH]

I’ve read here and many other places that most catholics consider Mary to be our mother/mother of all.

My question for catholics is this: Do you consider Mary to be our mother? If you consider Mary to be our mother, then do you consider Eve to be the mother of all (human race)?

Also, you can add extra statements to further explain and to help me understand what and why you believe this.

Yes, Catholics not only consider but believe that Mary is our mother. As Christians, we believe that we are the “mystical Body of Christ”, the Church. We are the Body, Christ is the head. As part of Christ, Mary then, is also our mother, the Mother of the Church.

And yes, we believe that Mary is the “new Eve”, the “mother of the living” (Jesus is the “New Adam”). The Cathechism of the Catholic Church explains:

“After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevengelium (“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of final victory of a descendant of hers.” (CCC par 410)

“The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross,” makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience of Adam. Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevengelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”…” (CCC par 411)

Mary seems to be a real stumbling block for a lot of non-Catholics until they understand where we’re really coming from. I’m curious as to the reason for your interest in this subject.

God bless.

 

[Big_Ro]

Yes, Catholics not only consider but believe that Mary is our mother. As Christians, we believe that we are the “mystical Body of Christ”, the Church. We are the Body, Christ is the head. As part of Christ, Mary then, is also our mother, the Mother of the Church.

And yes, we believe that Mary is the “new Eve”, the “mother of the living” (Jesus is the “New Adam”). The Cathechism of the Catholic Church explains:

“After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevengelium (“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of final victory of a descendant of hers.” (CCC par 410)

“The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross,” makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience of Adam. Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevengelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”…” (CCC par 411)

Mary seems to be a real stumbling block for a lot of non-Catholics until they understand where we’re really coming from. I’m curious as to the reason for your interest in this subject.

God bless.

Wow! Thanks for the validation. I was not speaking from any specific knowledge. The thought just popped in to my brain. Of course, it could be a latent memory from some past research. I get hooked on a subject from time to time and obsess over it for days sometimes. I do a bunch of research and reading and then move on. I’m not trying to be an apologist. Thanks either way.

 

[SteveVH]

Wow! Thanks for the validation. I was not speaking from any specific knowledge. The thought just popped in to my brain. Of course, it could be a latent memory from some past research. I get hooked on a subject from time to time and obsess over it for days sometimes. I do a bunch of research and reading and then move on. I’m not trying to be an apologist. Thanks either way.

I’m impressed that you would come up with this on your own. Not sure I would have even though it makes perfect sense once it is presented. Way to go

 

[Moro_Rock]

I’ve read here and many other places that most catholics consider Mary to be our mother/mother of all.

My question for catholics is this: Do you consider Mary to be our mother? If you consider Mary to be our mother, then do you consider Eve to be the mother of all (human race)?

Also, you can add extra statements to further explain and to help me understand what and why you believe this.

As previously said Eve is the mother of all the living
wheras Mary is the Mother of all who live in Christ

 

[Moro_Rock]

When Jesus hung on the Cross He said to John " Behold your Mother"
He said to Mary " Woman, behold your son "
Catholics believe that John represented every disciple, male and female and for all generations.
Also Jesus said " I will not leave you orphans "
Thanks to Jesus we have God for our Father and
Mary for our Mother

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I believe Elizabeth’s choice of words were divinely inspired; “Blessed is the fruit of your womb”.

It may seem strange to liken Jesus as “fruit”, but I believe it is painting a picture that Mary is delievering us the new fruit to undo the old fruit that Eve delivered to us.

And thus, it makes His dying words on the Cross personal to us; “Behold, your mother”.

P.S. I’ve heard that The Church is the new Eve, and Mary personifies the Church… but I never really understood what that means. May be it has something to do with Mary’s child-bearing and sacred relationship with God?

 

[Dorothy]

This is very interesting. I wonder if this makes any sense. Jesus is a second Adam so could Mary be considered a second Eve?

Yes, Mary has long been considered the second Eve.

Eve said “no”, Mary said “yes”. Mary is our Mother in the order of grace.

 

[hawkeye]

I’ve read here and many other places that most catholics consider Mary to be our mother/mother of all.

My question for catholics is this: Do you consider Mary to be our mother? If you consider Mary to be our mother, then do you consider Eve to be the mother of all (human race)?

Also, you can add extra statements to further explain and to help me understand what and why you believe this.

Never thought about this, good question, since mankind inherited sin from Eve and Adam, then we have their same sinful nature, so Eve must be our mother.

Yes, I do consider Mary to be the mother of the human race, we are adopted sons and daughters of God, Mary is our adoptive Mother, and Jesus is our brother, ransomed by His Precious Blood.

 

[rev_kevin]

Eve is the mother and Adam is the father of the human race. They were the first to start to populate the earth.
Mary is the mother of all who believe in Jesus Christ or the mother of all Christians.

 

[CaptainPicard]

That Mary is the new Eve is one of the earlier marian doctrines that we see fully formed. It seems to me to be an important basis of many of the Marian dogmas. It was a belief that had spread out all over the known world by the mid second century.

I think that scripture attests to it, even if only in the more typological sense. The fathers saw many of the parrels between the story of Eden and the gospels.

Adam in the garden of Eden went to the tree to enact the fall of the human race, Jesus went from the garden Gethsemane to the cross, the “tree of life” to redeem mankind.

The fallen angel satan appeared to Eve, ultimately starting the chain of events that, because of Eve’s disobediance, would lead to the fall of humanity through Adam. The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and started the the chain of events that, empowered by Mary’s obedience, would lead to the redemption of mankind through Jesus.

As St Iranaeus puts it:
And so the knot of Eye’s disobedience received its unloosing through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by incredulity, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by faith."

Furthermore, in Catholic belief, both Mary and Jesus were sinless virgins, as were Adam and Eve at the time of the test. It was sort of a divine do-over.

I would also argue that Jesus present in the eucharist is the fruit of the tree of life. John 6’s “whoever eats of my flesh… shall have eternal life” seems to echo God’s concern in Genesis that man not eat from the tree of life and live forever. His body literally hung from the tree.

I’d also argue Peter drawing his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane makes him a sort of a figure of the angels who were ordered to guard the Garden of Eden.

A good resource is Cardinal Newman on “Mary as the New Eve”
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman1.html
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman2.html

The first part deals mainly with Mary as the new Eve, the second deals mostly with other marian teachings.

 

[hawkeye]

That Mary is the new Eve is one of the earlier marian doctrines that we see fully formed. It seems to me to be an important basis of many of the Marian dogmas. It was a belief that had spread out all over the known world by the mid second century.

I think that scripture attests to it, even if only in the more typological sense. The fathers saw many of the parrels between the story of Eden and the gospels.

Adam in the garden of Eden went to the tree to enact the fall of the human race, Jesus went from the garden Gethsemane to the cross, the “tree of life” to redeem mankind.

The fallen angel satan appeared to Eve, ultimately starting the chain of events that, because of Eve’s disobediance, would lead to the fall of humanity through Adam. The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and started the the chain of events that, empowered by Mary’s obedience, would lead to the redemption of mankind through Jesus.

As St Iranaeus puts it:
And so the knot of Eye’s disobedience received its unloosing through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by incredulity, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by faith."

Furthermore, in Catholic belief, both Mary and Jesus were sinless virgins, as were Adam and Eve at the time of the test. It was sort of a divine do-over.

I would also argue that Jesus present in the eucharist is the fruit of the tree of life. John 6’s “whoever eats of my flesh… shall have eternal life” seems to echo God’s concern in Genesis that man not eat from the tree of life and live forever. His body literally hung from the tree.

I’d also argue Peter drawing his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane makes him a sort of a figure of the angels who were ordered to guard the Garden of Eden.

A good resource is Cardinal Newman on “Mary as the New Eve”
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman1.html
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman2.html

The first part deals mainly with Mary as the new Eve, the second deals mostly with other marian teachings.

 

[hawkeye]

That Mary is the new Eve is one of the earlier Marian doctrines that we see fully formed. It seems to me to be an important basis of many of the Marian dogmas. It was a belief that had spread out all over the known world by the mid second century.

I think that scripture attests to it, even if only in the more typological sense. The fathers saw many of the parallels between the story of Eden and the gospels.

Adam in the garden of Eden went to the tree to enact the fall of the human race, Jesus went from the garden Gethsemane to the cross, the “tree of life” to redeem mankind.

The fallen angel satan appeared to Eve, ultimately starting the chain of events that, because of Eve’s disobedience, would lead to the fall of humanity through Adam. The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and started the the chain of events that, empowered by Mary’s obedience, would lead to the redemption of mankind through Jesus.

As St Irenaeus puts it:
And so the knot of Eye’s disobedience received its unloosing through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by incredulity, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by faith."

Furthermore, in Catholic belief, both Mary and Jesus were sinless virgins, as were Adam and Eve at the time of the test. It was sort of a divine do-over.

I would also argue that Jesus present in the Eucharist is the fruit of the tree of life. John 6’s “whoever eats of my flesh… shall have eternal life” seems to echo God’s concern in Genesis that man not eat from the tree of life and live forever. His body literally hung from the tree.

I’d also argue Peter drawing his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane makes him a sort of a figure of the angels who were ordered to guard the Garden of Eden.

A good resource is Cardinal Newman on “Mary as the New Eve”
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman1.html
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman2.html

The first part deals mainly with Mary as the new Eve, the second deals mostly with other Marian teachings.

Absolutely Brilliantly & Spiritually switched on !

 

[SteveVH]

That Mary is the new Eve is one of the earlier marian doctrines that we see fully formed. It seems to me to be an important basis of many of the Marian dogmas. It was a belief that had spread out all over the known world by the mid second century.

I think that scripture attests to it, even if only in the more typological sense. The fathers saw many of the parrels between the story of Eden and the gospels.

Adam in the garden of Eden went to the tree to enact the fall of the human race, Jesus went from the garden Gethsemane to the cross, the “tree of life” to redeem mankind.

The fallen angel satan appeared to Eve, ultimately starting the chain of events that, because of Eve’s disobediance, would lead to the fall of humanity through Adam. The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and started the the chain of events that, empowered by Mary’s obedience, would lead to the redemption of mankind through Jesus.

As St Iranaeus puts it:
And so the knot of Eye’s disobedience received its unloosing through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by incredulity, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by faith."

Furthermore, in Catholic belief, both Mary and Jesus were sinless virgins, as were Adam and Eve at the time of the test. It was sort of a divine do-over.

I would also argue that Jesus present in the eucharist is the fruit of the tree of life. John 6’s “whoever eats of my flesh… shall have eternal life” seems to echo God’s concern in Genesis that man not eat from the tree of life and live forever. His body literally hung from the tree.

I’d also argue Peter drawing his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane makes him a sort of a figure of the angels who were ordered to guard the Garden of Eden.

A good resource is Cardinal Newman on “Mary as the New Eve”
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman1.html
christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/newman2.html

The first part deals mainly with Mary as the new Eve, the second deals mostly with other marian teachings.

Thank you for your comments. Great stuff! I love it when I learn something.

 

[CaptainPicard]

Absolutely Brilliantly & Spiritually switched on !

I really like typology. Scott Hahn described scripture as being like a sand box for God’s children to play in, with bits of hidden treasure to find. It wasn’t until I read him for the first time, his book Hail Holy Queen, that I realized how cool the spiritual sense of scripture could be. He’s a good author for a lot of reasons, but I especially like him (and many other authors) for bringing up these sorts of things, often dug up from the early church fathers, that I would never see in scripture by myself.

It shows that God is in charge and had a plan from the beginning. Along that same vein, another interesting thing about the garden of Eden is that the tree of life must have seemed completely superfluous. Afterall, Adam and Eve were already immortal (until they sinned), why would they need a tree to give them everlasting life? It shows that God had our way back from sin prepared even before we sinned.

 

[LilyM]

Mary is our spiritual mother, Eve is physically the mother of the human race.

In the same way, my biological father and Adam are physically my fathers. Spiritually I have several fathers - God the Father, of course, the Holy Father (the Pope) and the many priests who have influenced me over the years. Just as St Paul calls himself the Father of those who he guided spiritually.

 

[Poco]

First, let me say I am using the NRSV Holy Bible, copyright 1989

As to Adam and Eve being virgins before the fall, well, that may be an open question. Genesis 2:24-25, “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.”
This is before the serpent approaches Eve about the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They certainly could have had “relations” before then. We don’t know!

Something else that strikes me as “unusual” now is Genesis 3:22-23, "Then the Lord God said,“See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”- therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden…

Any opinions on the “Tree of Life” not showing up until after the “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil”? (unless I missed something)