Adam & Eve

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Well they are claims unless they can provide evidence to support them.
The Catechism is not “making claims” there – but Teaching the Catholic Faith - from Divine Revelation etc.

Tis not an work of apologetics or argument.

You can reference 2000 years of apologetic discussion on the Teachings of the Church…
 
The Catechism is not “making claims” there – but Teaching the Catholic Faith - from Divine Revelation etc.

Tis not an work of apologetics or argument.

You can reference 2000 years of apologetic discussion on the Teachings of the Church…
So someone’s interpretation of long passed oral tradition that could easily be misheard and when put to writing can be embellished. Ty.
 
So someone’s interpretation of long passed oral tradition that could easily be misheard and when put to writing can be embellished. Ty.
No that would be a rather mischaracterization of it.

(meaning no that is not correct)
 
No that would be a rather mischaracterization of it.

(meaning no that is not correct)
But that is what happens when one has an oral story told over several generations. Things will get changed to make the story better. Not on purpose mind you. Let’s take Moses. Now there is no archeological evidence that such an event happened. I do believe that even anthropological evidence is severely lacking. That being said there could have been a man named Moses who lived with ancient Hebrews and maybe he did something but after many retellings of the story more and more can be embellished. Then after it is written and translated things can become lost or changed.
 
Rather off the topic of the thread. Kate you have been answered and even given a link to listen to Moses -which you said you had not time to listen to while spending hours here in the forums!

You do not seem interested in Catholic Answers but something else…

Not going to continue going round and round with ya.

Have a good evening.
 
But that is what happens when one has an oral story told over several generations. Things will get changed to make the story better. Not on purpose mind you. Let’s take Moses. Now there is no archeological evidence that such an event happened. I do believe that even anthropological evidence is severely lacking. That being said there could have been a man named Moses who lived with ancient Hebrews and maybe he did something but after many retellings of the story more and more can be embellished. Then after it is written and translated things can become lost or changed.
Do you believe the bible is the inerrant word of God?
 
And what is their evidence supporting these claims.

How is this known?

Looking around I found this: whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation5.html
That link is interesting, yet something bugs me. Does the link explain what God meant when he said not to eat of the tree of good and evil for they would surely die?

Doesn’t this mean that they may not have died before eating of the tree so they were immortal before sin, mortal after, but could have had access to the tree of life so they had to be put out of the garden?
 
And what is their evidence supporting these claims.

How is this known?

Looking around I found this: whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation5.html
From link.

“The Christian concept of Original Sin is that since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, all human beings are born not only with a tendency to sin, but they are also born with the guilt of Adam and Eve, and for this guilt”

The Catholic Church teaches

**CCC 405 **Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
 
So someone’s interpretation of long passed oral tradition that could easily be misheard and when put to writing can be embellished. Ty.
Yup!

The truth is that an extremely intelligent person, who understood, acknowledged, and participated in the Faith of his nation, put together a series of events. The first event was the creation of the universe. (Genesis 1:1) Humans needed some solid earth to live on.😉

If one actually believes that there is a Divine Creator God, then it is reasonable that a species can be created who is totally different from wild animals, cattle, and creeping things. (Genesis 1: 25) Observing the people of his nation, the scientific-minded author recognized the difference in species. His species was not only rational, but apparently his unique species understood the difference between the material and spiritual worlds.(Genesis 1: 27) Note: It is proper to say that the philosophical author is scientific-minded because he studied nature around him. It does not matter how he described the material universe. The fact is that he was doing what scientists do today.

If one actually believes that a powerful, truly almighty Divine Creator God exists, then these basics truths exist.
  1. God as Creator exists.
  2. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human.
  3. Every individual human has the inherent capacity to interact with God as Creator.
If you wish, you can call the above three truths “oral tradition.” That does not change the existence of God nor do we become antelope because we can run. Oral tradition cannot change what a human creature with decomposing anatomy has to do in order to interact in a friendship relationship with a divine, transcendent, super-natural Pure Spirit without material restrictions.
 
We simply call the first man “Adam.” It wasn’t a personal name. Whoever were the first man and woman ensouled by God, made in His “image,” is who we consider to be Adam & Eve. Genesis is not a literal textbook of creation. In fact, the creation story of Genesis borrows heavily from the Mesopotamian creation story the Enuma Elis. Genesis makes its personal by having one god instead of many as the source of all things based on goodness. Whoever the writers/editors of the early chapters of Genesis, they certainly did not expect their work to be seen as a literal historical work.
I believe Adam was his personal name because in Romans 5:15 " many died by the trespass of one man, how much more did grace come through the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ."- paraphrased .
 
I believe Adam was his personal name because in Romans 5:15 " many died by the trespass of one man, how much more did grace come through the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ."- paraphrased .
“Adam (Hebrew: אָדָם) means “human”; coupled with the definite article, it becomes “the human”.[2] It may be derived from אָדָם‎ (a-d-m), meaning “red”.[3] As a masculine noun, 'adam[4] means “man”, “mankind” usually in a collective context as in humankind.[3][5] In the Book of Genesis, the Hebrew word ׳āḏām is often rendered “mankind” in the most generic sense, which is similar to its usage in other Canaanite languages.[6][7] The use of “mankind” in Genesis gives the sense that Adam was the ancestor of all men.”

“Adam” is a play on words; it is not a meant to be a literal name.
 
Adam was the first man.

As to his name - tis the name used by Sacred Scripture and the Church.

That is who we mean when we say “Adam was the first man”.

When we refer to the first man…well it is* Adam* we refer to.

Tis the name he is called by us and by Scripture.
 
Adam was the first man.

As to his name - tis the name used by Sacred Scripture and the Church.

That is who we mean when we say “Adam was the first man”.

When we refer to the first man…well it is* Adam* we refer to.

Tis the name he is called by us and by Scripture.
So then why does our ancestors can be found in Africa and not the Middle East? How do you explain stories far older than Genesis that detail creation myths. We, as humans, didn’t come from two single people created from clay/dust.
 
So then why does our ancestors can be found in Africa and not the Middle East?
Where do you find this disputed by the Church?🤷
Where do you even find any proposition by the Church, or scripture, as to the scientific realities of human origins??? Sources please.
How do you explain stories far older than Genesis that detail creation myths.
So? Other cultures have myths. So? 🤷
What’s your point? The Genesis narrative is unique in all the creation stories. And that doesn’t deny some superficial similarities.
We, as humans, didn’t come from two single people created from clay/dust.
🤷
There’s gotta be a forum somewhere for anthropologists and geneticists that discuss this sort of thing. Are you one of those?
No one here is, to the best of my knowledge.

Are you a fundamentalist when it comes to your religious beliefs?
Judging by your way of looking at these things,
:sad_yes:
 
So then why does our ancestors can be found in Africa and not the Middle East? How do you explain stories far older than Genesis that detail creation myths. We, as humans, didn’t come from two single people created from clay/dust.
Obviously, Adam and Eve lived a very long time ago, going millions of years backwards. Given the length of female fertility, lots of babies populated and migrated. 😉
 
So then why does our ancestors can be found in Africa and not the Middle East? How do you explain stories far older than Genesis that detail creation myths. We, as humans, didn’t come from two single people created from clay/dust.
The story starts out with the “gods” — beings from a planet called Nibiru — digging ditches and mining for gold as part of an expeditionary team. Modern humans (homo sapiens) did not exist yet; only primitive hominids lived on Earth. There were two groups of “gods”, the worker class and the ruling class (i.e. officers). The worker gods had built the infrastructure as well as toiled in the gold mines and, after thousands of years, the work was apparently too much for them.

After Enki instructs them on purification rituals for the first, seventh and fifteenth of every month, the gods slaughter Geshtu-e, “a god who had intelligence” (his name means “ear” or “wisdom”) and form mankind from his blood and some clay. After the birth goddess mixes the clay, all the gods troop by and spit on it. Then Enki and the womb-goddess take the clay into “the room of fate,” where The womb-goddesses were assembled.

He [Enki] trod the clay in her presence;
She kept reciting an incantation,
For Enki, staying in her presence, made her recite it.
When she had finished her incantation,
She pinched off fourteen pieces of clay,
And set seven pieces on the right,
Seven on the left.
Between them she put down a mud brick. (Dalley 16, Atrahasis)

According to the same texts, once the mining expedition ended it was decided that the human population should be allowed to perish in a flood which was predicted by the atronomer of the “gods.” Apparently, the cyclical passage of the home planet of the gods, Nibiru, was going to bring it close enough to the orbit of Earth that its gravity would cause the oceans to rise and flood the land, putting an end to the hybrid species — homo sapiens.

According to the story, one of the “gods” had sympathy for a particular human, Zuisudra, and warned him to construct a boat to ride out the flood. This eventually became the basis for the story of Noah in the book of Genesis.

Read more: newsrescue.com/ancient-200000bc-human-metropolis-found-in-africa/#ixzz4YsIhgz9t

I find the writings of the Sumerian legends, myths fascinating. There is much more detail about how we came to be in these ancient writings, yet being made to mine gold isn’t as comforting as being told God made us because he loves us.
 
Obviously, Adam and Eve lived a very long time ago, going millions of years backwards. Given the length of female fertility, lots of babies populated and migrated. 😉
Oh really? So Adam and Eve are semi monkey people? If you can find proof of that grats! Also while we all are related we didn’t come from a strict two people.
 
Where do you find this disputed by the Church?🤷
Where do you even find any proposition by the Church, or scripture, as to the scientific realities of human origins??? Sources please.
Well seeing how the proposed story of Genesis takes place around the rivers near Israel it can be assumed that all human life would begin around that area is the story was remotely true. Now the ancient Jewish people did come from that area but not the rest of humanity.
So? Other cultures have myths. So? 🤷
What’s your point? The Genesis narrative is unique in all the creation stories. And that doesn’t deny some superficial similarities.
I don’t know if it is unique. Gods breathing life into beings made of dirt/clay/dust is rather common. Same with some flood myths as the view of the world can be very local when those myths were told.
🤷
There’s gotta be a forum somewhere for anthropologists and geneticists that discuss this sort of thing. Are you one of those?
No one here is, to the best of my knowledge.
Are you a fundamentalist when it comes to your religious beliefs?
Judging by your way of looking at these things,
:sad_yes:
I am neither of those things but I am curious about them. Plus I try to look up information as I used to believe that the story of Moses was 100% real. I don’t know if I have any religious beliefs anymore.
 
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