Adam & Eve

[edwest2]

From a Catholic Answers tract:

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

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“Genesis does not contain purified myths.” (Pontifical Biblical Commission 1909)

Ed

 

[Roseeurekacross]

But does it matter who came first?

Of course it matters. God had to perfect His original human creation

 

[edwest2]

Of course it matters. God had to perfect His original human creation

Adam, then Eve, were in perfect union with God and had certain preternatural gifts. God knew what Adam would look like.

Ed

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Actually it makes a GREAT deal of difference: Here’s WHY

1. God has freely chosen to make HIMSELF know to us a “FATHER”
2. Jesus Christ became Incarnate MAN
3. Throughout the churches history and Sacred Tradition GOD has freely chosen One-MAN to lead HIS chosen people:

Noah, Abram, Moses. the Judges, the Kings, the Prophets leading up to John the Baptist who Introduce Jesus Himself who choose freely 12 MALE apostles [Mt 10:1-4]

So t seems obvious and indisputable that this was and REMAINS God’s freewilll choice:thumbsup:

GBY

And yet , who did Jesus say, although is the least amongst Angels, is the greatest man born of woman?

And how did Jesus come into the world, who was the first to see Jesus after resurrection.

Do you forget the female prophets? Or women like Ruth, Esther.

 

[Bookcat]

Did you read all my posts? Please read them - whole and entire.

Please read them as they are written -freshly (it is easy to read into something if one already thinks one knows what it says…).

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Oh - and does the Church Teach that the name “Adam” is just a place holder?

No.

Waiting for you to read all my posts.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Adam, then Eve, were in perfect union with God and had certain preternatural gifts. God knew what Adam would look like.

Ed

Thus, the reason for changing the form for human creation #2

 

[Bookcat]

S

So have you read my posts - entirely?

What have I written? What have I posted?

 

[Bookcat]

As I noted Adam was the first man.

Tis the name used by Sacred Scripture and the Church.

Tis the name he is called. That is who we mean when we say “Adam was the first man”.

When we refer to the first man…well it is* Adam* we refer to.

No point really in arguing about it. Tis the name he is called by us and by Scripture.

 

[Bookcat]

S"

Here is basically what I have been saying in the posts above.

Adam was the first man.

Tis the name used by Sacred Scripture and the Church.

Tis the name he is called in the Sacred Scriptures and by the Church.

That is who we mean when we say “Adam was the first man”.

(which is what I was saying in answer to the question of the thread)

When we refer to the first man…well it is* Adam* we refer to.

No point really in arguing about the name.

Tis the name he is called by us (the Church) and given to him in Sacred Scripture.

Some excerpts of how the Church calls the first man - Adam:

A few from the Catechism:

402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: “sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned.” The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.”

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state…

416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

“The biblical account of creation speaks of the solitude of Adam, the first man, and God’s decision to give him a helper.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI DEUS CARITAS EST

“Because of Adam’s sin we too are born “blind” but in the baptismal font we are illumined by the grace of Christ.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI 3 April 2011 Angelus

“…very first pages of the Book of Genesis that recount the dark and tragic event of the sin of Adam and Eve. Our first parents were defeated by the Evil One…”

~Pope Benedict XVI 15 August 2011 Angelus

Compendium of the Catechism - issued by Pope Benedict XVI

1. What are the first stages of God’s Revelation?

54-58
70-71

From the very beginning, God manifested himself to our first parents, Adam and Eve, and invited them to intimate communion with himself. After their fall, he did not cease his revelation to them but promised salvation for all their descendants. After the flood, he made a covenant with Noah, a covenant between himself and all living beings.

1. What was the first human sin?

396-403
415-417

When tempted by the devil, the first man and woman allowed trust in their Creator to die in their hearts. In their disobedience they wished to become “like God” but without God and not in accordance with God (Genesis 3:5). Thus, Adam and Eve immediately lost for themselves and for all their descendants the original grace of holiness and justice.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

(the other quotes are from the www.vatican.va)

One could go on and on and on…but that is enough examples.

Quickly I will add from the quote from Pope Pius XII up above " documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an* individual *Adam in which through generation is passed onto all"

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The Church refers to Adam as the first man. And Scriptures and the Church refer to our parents as Adam and Eve. Real persons not characters.

Now do the authors intend to assert that is the names they actually used for each other? Well that is something one could seek into and plumb the arguments.

But as to what the Inspired Scriptures and the Church call the first man - that would be* Adam*. Our first parents are referred to as Adam and Eve.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

So magic???

Not magic. Magic is an illusion. It doesnt happen. Its smoke and mirrors.

Adam and Eve and eveything else is real. It happened. We also have DNA evidence we all originated from ‘the 7 daughters of Eve’

 

[grannymh]

Don’t you understand? The name “Adam” is just a place holder, not a proper name. You are trying to project a spiritual truth onto literal history.

The actual spiritual truth
is that humankind descended from an actual literal real fully-complete first human person whom God created as being essentially different in nature from all other creatures. Genesis 1: 27.

 

[grannymh]

If we take an evolutionary model, why must we assume that they were born of the same parents, in that type of order? And Eve still could have been made of Adam’s rib.

The real Evolution Model describes a new species as a speciation event. evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/_0_0/evo_07)

In scientific language, this means that an emerging species, such as the human species, evolved from a large indiscriminate mixed genetic random breeding humanizing very large population over a long period of time.

Genesis 2:18 has the proper information that the first human person Adam was created as the first single human person

 

[grannymh]

But does it matter who came first?

It matters that one person came first. There is an Original Sin because there is one Original human.

 

[grannymh]

The Catechism teaches that the first few chapters of Genesis employs “figurative language”. I think these posters mean that the truths the Sacred Writer communicates “literally happened” (there was an Adam and Eve, they rebelled against God, etc.)…but not that we must take a *literalistic *reading of Genesis as a historical account.

I do not mean to be rude.

It would be extremely enlightening to find out what CCC 390 refers to when figurative language is used.

Also, regardless of a literalistic reading or a non-literalistic reading–whatever one prefers–the Catholic Church maintains that Adam is historical. Because Adam is historical, it is reasonable to consider his actual actions (not how his actions are described) are also historical.

 

[Tim_D]

No point really in arguing about the name.

I’m not the one insisting that his literal, birth certificate, social security, drivers license bearing name is “Adam;” you are!

Also, quoting yourself from prior posts is a poor argument.

 

[Tim_D]

The actual spiritual truth
is that humankind descended from an actual literal real fully-complete first human person whom God created as being essentially different in nature from all other creatures. Genesis 1: 27.

For once, I agree with you. The idea that this fully-complete first human person’s name was literally “Adam,” just as mine is Tim or that yours is whatever it is, misses the point.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m not the one insisting that his literal, birth certificate, social security, drivers license bearing name is “Adam;” you are!

Also, quoting yourself from prior posts is a poor argument.

I was selecting from my posts so you could more easily read the basics of what I wrote.

Again please read my posts - you are reading into them if you think that.

I am saying what wrote there -not something else.

Please slowly read that post above. Fully.

 

[simpleas]

It matters that one person came first. There is an Original Sin because there is one Original human.

There was two people involved in the original sin.

 

[Tim_D]

I was selecting from my posts so you could more easily read the basics of what I wrote.

Again please read my posts - you are reading into them if you think that.

I am saying what wrote there -not something else.

Please slowly read that post above. Fully.

You never did answer my question: is Yahweh God’s literal name?

 

[simpleas]

What is the problem with calling the first man Adam?

The original name was ha adamah meaning “the ground” or “earth”

English is Adam.

Some refer to Adam as in mankind, not just a lone figure.