B
Bookcat
Guest
Off topic and too long of a discussion (one may read the document from the Holy See regarding the use of Yahweh in the liturgy (music) etc)
Did you go back and read my post as I asked?
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Did you go back and read my post as I asked?
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Tim_D
Guest
No, its off topic and too long of a discussion.
B
Bookcat
Guest
What are the names of our First Parents?
The Sacred Scriptures and the Church refer to our parents (who were actual persons) as Adam and Eve.
Now do the authors intend to assert that is the names they actually used for each other? Well that is something one could seek into and plumb the arguments…
But as to what the Inspired Scriptures and the Documents of the Church and including of Popes give as their names - that would be Adam and Eve.
The Sacred Scriptures and the Church refer to our parents (who were actual persons) as Adam and Eve.
Now do the authors intend to assert that is the names they actually used for each other? Well that is something one could seek into and plumb the arguments…
But as to what the Inspired Scriptures and the Documents of the Church and including of Popes give as their names - that would be Adam and Eve.
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grannymh
Guest
The reality is that there were two people who committed the serious mortal sin in which they both rejected God’s original friendship relationship aka the State of Original Holiness aka State of Sanctifying Grace. And both two people suffered the results.
Even if the second person Eve committed the first mortal sin, she would be guilty of that sin, but not guilty of Original Sin because she is not the original person on planet earth.
It is hard to grasp the concept of Original when there is original this and original that. Perhaps, when we consider the role of the first human who was the first human in the first friendship relationship with his Creator, we can understand why Original Sin belongs to him. Genesis 2:15; Genesis 2:18; Genesis 3:9-11
It does take two people to produce descendants which will have their parents’ wounded nature.
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simpleas
Guest
Eve was the first original female person, but that doesn’t seem to matter.The reality is that there were two people who committed the serious mortal sin in which they both rejected God’s original friendship relationship aka the State of Original Holiness aka State of Sanctifying Grace. And both two people suffered the results.
Even if the second person Eve committed the first mortal sin, she would be guilty of that sin, but not guilty of Original Sin because she is not the original person on planet earth.
It is hard to grasp the concept of Original when there is original this and original that. Perhaps, when we consider the role of the first human who was the first human in the first friendship relationship with his Creator, we can understand why Original Sin belongs to him. Genesis 2:15; Genesis 2:18; Genesis 3:9-11
It does take two people to produce descendants which will have their parents’ wounded nature.
I forgot about the Patriarchy rule.
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truetofaith
Guest
So what you people are saying is :… when God put Adam into a deep sleep & formed the woman Eve from his rib…God really put every ape man to sleep and made women from all their ribs 
Come on …admit the Bible is talking about one man, Adam & one woman, Eve!
Come on …admit the Bible is talking about one man, Adam & one woman, Eve!
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grannymh
Guest
Pardon me. I am not one of “you people” who is saying “God really put every ape man to sleep and made women from all their ribs.”So what you people are saying is :… when God put Adam into a deep sleep & formed the woman Eve from his rib…God really put every ape man to sleep and made women from all their ribs
Come on …admit the Bible is talking about one man, Adam & one woman, Eve!
By the way, what are the “every ape man” you are referring to?
I cannot speak for every book in the Bible’s Old Testament and New Testament. I can only answer your questions/problems which flow from the first three amazing chapters of the book of Genesis.
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truetofaith
Guest
Why do you think I was directing my post at you?
By “you people” I mean those who don’t believe in a single couple …Adam & Eve like Genesis says.
By “every ape man” I mean the whole group of Neanderthals that the scientists think man evolved from.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Scientists DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT believe Homo Sapiens, of whom Adam was numero uno, evolved from Neanderthals, or Apes.
What is being taught in schools that people still have this misconception in the 21st Century.
What is being taught in schools that people still have this misconception in the 21st Century.
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truetofaith
Guest
What do scientists say? Maybe that Homo Sapiens evolved from a lamprey but I’m pretty sure they don’t believe in a separate creation by God.
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dochawk
Guest
And I’m sitting here with my usual reaction to these arguments, wondering why it matters?
Whether Adam was one man or a thousand, whether one generation of ten, how does that change what God is telling us there? How does it change how we should live our lives? How does it change our relation with God?
I suppose this type of thing is a huge part why I turned East . . .
[And after eight years of Jesuit education, and law school after that, yes, I can scholasticize with the the best of them . . .]
AMDG
hawk
Whether Adam was one man or a thousand, whether one generation of ten, how does that change what God is telling us there? How does it change how we should live our lives? How does it change our relation with God?
I suppose this type of thing is a huge part why I turned East . . .
[And after eight years of Jesuit education, and law school after that, yes, I can scholasticize with the the best of them . . .]
AMDG
hawk
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grannymh
Guest
The Adam I know does not have the job of telling us what God is telling us or how we should live our lives. The Adam I know has been quietly dead for some time.
There is a kind of problem with thousands of other Adams. We would have to examine the Adam we are descended from to check if he is in the image of God so we would know we are in the image of God which gives us the right to joy eternal. With all those Adams, there is a good chance that not every one is the sole founder of humankind.
On the other hand, the Adam I know is, with his spouse, the sole founders of humankind. The thousands of Adams could not claim that they all are the singular Adam which assures us that each of us is in the image of God. When all of us are descended from the same Adam, then we know for sure, that our human nature is in the image of God.
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dochawk
Guest
If “Adam” is collective, we have the same scriptural assurance that we all descend from Adam . . .
btw, fifteen or twenty years ago, examination of mitochondrial dna (passed down only the maternal line) confirmed that all people living today outside a small area in Africa descend from a single woman (who they dubbed “Eve”), who came from that section. People in that valley descend from another couple of women.
[the mutation rate is known well enough to work backward]
AMDG
hawk
btw, fifteen or twenty years ago, examination of mitochondrial dna (passed down only the maternal line) confirmed that all people living today outside a small area in Africa descend from a single woman (who they dubbed “Eve”), who came from that section. People in that valley descend from another couple of women.
[the mutation rate is known well enough to work backward]
AMDG
hawk
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grannymh
Guest
I do not believe that every square foot of the entire planet earth was observed by live scientists working millions of years backwards.
If you wish, you can have your collective Adam, your collective dog, your collective elephant, your collective girl friend, your collective life.
I want a solid real blood and guts Adam.
B
Bookcat
Guest
It very much matters.
Our first parents - Adam and Eve - were very real persons. And committed very real original sin … Which very much changed our relation to God.
Thankfully in Christ (the new Adam) we can know life again - and indeed true life.
N
NM505StKate
Guest
Strong disagree. Tracing back our roots we can find most of humanity started in Africa and not the Middle East. We can also trace our lines back enough to know we have a common ancestor with modern apes. We may not know how life started on the planet but we have strong theories on how it evolved.
Due to this there is little to no evidence that the story of Adam and Eve even happened. It probably is just a myth to tell how Jewish people came about and is an allegory to becoming farmers instead of hunter gatherers.
B
Bookcat
Guest
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dochawk
Guest
Again, I don’t see that as changing in Truth whether Adam was one or many.
I really don’t have a position; I see the relation and what it means about the relation as more worthy of my time than worrying about the historical detail.
AMDG
hawk
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grannymh
Guest
Speaking of the Homo/Pan Split… …
Unfortunately, not every square foot of the entire planet earth has been observed
by scientists working millions of years backwards. You can verify what was observed in the methods and materials sections of your favorite published research.
Therefore, after studying research, most likely starting with the 1995 bombshell, you will find that the possibility of the first two living humans, Adam & Eve, cannot be ruled universally impossible.
In plain language, the evidence does not warrant an universal negative.
Adam and Eve could easily start their family anywhere or anytime. Farmers can supply food for their family.
Obviously, you can choose to stick to your interpretations of the past. That is your right.
On the other hand, other readers can find that the first three intriguing chapters of Genesis contains bits of information about the dawn of human history. Given that God is Divine, Eve and Adam are a huge possibility.
B
Bookcat
Guest
The Church does (and thus so do I).
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