Adam hearkened. DR

[rcjones]

Ok. Pulling in Seth makes it clear.

In Gen 1 God says he will make man in His image and likeness. But he only creates man in his image. The likeness is not fulfilled until Seth is fruitful and multiplies. You then find that man was in the likeness of God in Gen 5.

It is Christ that is the “express image” of God and his bride that is “made like him.” Together, when the woman is once again “in Christ” they are the image and likeness of God, having dominion and being fruitful and multiplying.

I have a drawing illustrating this at:
idontknownuthin.com/wiki/index.php/Dwg:Image_and_likeness_-_work_of_Christ_in_Abel.jpg

Seth represents the resurrected Christ since he is the replacement for Abel. When Seth begets Enos it represents the fruitfulness since once again Gen 4:26 …"men began to call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[rcjones]

You are picking up on what could be the most sublime manifestations that we can apprehend. Through the lense Christ offers they are given their true object.

I believe this is the case as well, however, I am of no account. This is important. The shadows are there and should I get hit by a truck, you should be able to see them as well.

God has revealed himself in word, works and life and we are expected to hear, see and live.

The fact that the shadows “connect” with you I think is the hearing. This is what generally guides me to look here and there at things.

When we dig and validate them with the word play and riddles, I believe this is the seeing. If we get content with hearing, the pit of allegory awaits us.

What I have been sharing in the other threads is not the result of years of study nor of being a mystic of any kind. It is the result of a quick look at a scripture that I have not spent time with yet. Particularly the parables.

With the three steps that I reverse engineered out of the Pardes, you don’t have to wait until you hear the shadow. You can jump in anywhere and apply the hermeneutic and see them first.

So if there are things you are currently studying, I don’t mind shifting gears and giving that portion a quick look with you. Once someone gets the gist of it, flushing out the details, I hope, is easy.

I also encourage you to demand proofs for anything that doesn’t ring true.

 

[Benadam]

Ok. Pulling in Seth makes it clear.

In Gen 1 God says he will make man in His image and likeness. But he only creates man in his image. The likeness is not fulfilled until Seth is fruitful and multiplies. You then find that man was in the likeness of God in Gen 5.

It is Christ that is the “express image” of God and his bride that is “made like him.” Together, when the woman is once again “in Christ” they are the image and likeness of God, having dominion and being fruitful and multiplying.

I have a drawing illustrating this at:
idontknownuthin.com/wiki/index.php/Dwg:Image_and_likeness_-_work_of_Christ_in_Abel.jpg

Seth represents the resurrected Christ since he is the replacement for Abel. When Seth begets Enos it represents the fruitfulness since once again Gen 4:26 …"men began to call upon the name of the Lord.

If you look closely at the similarity in the names in Seth’s and Cain’s line especially the Enoch’s and include Abel this riddle seems to emerge.

*** And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings: 10 Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time. ***
***11 And the beast which was, and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction. ***

 

[rcjones]

If you look closely at the similarity in the names in Seth’s and Cain’s line especially the Enoch’s and include Abel this riddle seems to emerge.

*** And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings: 10 Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time. ***
***11 And the beast which was, and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction. ***

I hit the genealogy in Exodus a few months ago and it was a dictionary of terms in the shadows for the saved.

This one in Genesis is full of numbers which is a weak area of mine in the shadows. I have avoided them because of all the stuff others have done in numerology which I consider nonsense. So with all the numbers I will have to take a bit of time.

The context of the genealogy is in the history written by the Father (other portions are identifiable as having been written by the Son and the Holy Ghost). The main theme repeated four times, by the voices of the priest, prophet, king and judge is that the Son has dominion and is fruitful and multiplies.

Genesis 1 is the voice of the prophet. Sin is a minor issue for although there is trouble in the deep, void, and darkness, the son who is the firmament, light and life has things under control. When God says “It is good” on day 6, Jesus says “It is finished” on the cross.

The story of Adam to Genesis 5 is the voice of the priest and finishes with Seth being fruitful and multiplying… this continues into the genealogy, which I have not parsed out yet, but will try to do for you. This story shows how God fulfills the image and likeness. The bride is taken from his side (separated from him) in his sleep:death (She is stolen from him, and he is left desolate), and is restored to him through his death.

The story of Noah is the voice of the judge. In the shadows, the judge judges the world by being the only one who is a “witness” of God when everyone else is failing that calling. His final judgment is when he kills himself. He has dominion over death, and is fruitful after he removes judgment from the word.

And that of Abraham Issac and Jacob and Joseph is the voice of the king. In the shadows the Son has dominion over all things as king.

---

Now some initial details:
v3 And Man lived, Price paid for the Church, Fruitful and multiplied, Called the church “compensation”.

The law says that when something is stolen you have to give it back plus twenty percent. The church is God’s increase, God’s portion, and God’s compensation for the theft. It is a double tithe since it is in heaven and on earth.

v4 And life of man after he brought forth the compensation (church) was the full word of God in heaven and on earth in the church in heaven and on earth.

v5 And all the life of man quickened were church in heaven and on earth and the price paid in heaven and on earth and he died to himself.

–

I’ll tackle more tomorroww.

 

[Ron_Conte]

I see where that approach has an appeal, and I don’t know that I would disagree concerning essential matters. Do you see no value in reading in the original languages?

The original languages are useful. I object to the approach that either sees the original languages as essential to any proper interpretation, or which views the meaning of the original language text as dependent upon what a dictionary says.

I think there would be great value in having the dictionary that defines the words the author used. I believe what is expressed would resonate more deeply within us and universally if the original concepts expressed by the author are understood.

Obviously, we need to know what words generally mean in order to understand the text. But dictionaries are not inspired, and they generally do not tell you the theological or spiritual meaning in the text. They are useful, but an interpretation should not be based mainly on a reading of the dictionary definition of a single word in the original language.

There is much meaning found in the passage or verse as a whole, read in light of the Christian faith, meaning not generally found in the dictionary.

 

[juliamajor]

Genesis 3:17 Adam’s correction is more intense then Eve’s WHY? Actually Adam was the only one who heard God’s command directly Gen 2:16- adam was commanded not to eat of the tree.Gen2:21-22 Eve is created.She had no first hand knowledge of the command.Notice in Gen 3:3 she has gotten some of the info wrong=God doesn’t mention=- not touching the tree…In Gen 3:6 Adam takes the fruit without hesitation- even though he got the order directly from the mouth of God unlike Eve who got it second hand- and apparently not correctly.Adam has the greater culpability since he received his command directly from the source- then he tries to shift the blame on to Eve- which God doesn’t buy…Each individual is responsible for his own sin and shifting blame is not helpful

 

[rcjones]

I’ll tackle more tomorroww.

Well, the numbers still do not flow well, but here are my observations :
There are seven generation for man (Adam) to obtain the word of God in heaven and on earth (Jabal and Jubal, water, water)

There are ten generations for man to obtain “rest” or “another comforter”

The seven Generations represnt God, and the ten generations represent man.
In the listing of Seths children the word ‘lived’ is used repeatedly. The man (ten) lives. Meanwhile the generations of Cain use the word beget and does not use the word “live” at all.

This means that God (the seven) died, while man (10) lived and had sons and daughters.

The genealogy is a dictionary of terms for those who live and die in the shadows.

Cain - possess, spear. The spear that sought to kill David weighed 300 sheckels meaning “God’s Church abominations” or the sins of the church. It was the sins of the church that pierced Christ’s side. The one possessing the sins of the church (Christ) died.

Now the similar name Cainan lived. His name means “possession, cell” as in a room on the ark. The one who possesses a place that had been made for him lives.

There is an Enoch on both sides, this means that he represents one who died and was resurrected (Christ) He was resurrected as a man. Enoch means dedicated.

Irad means “wild ***” or unbridled prophet. I am not sure if yet if this term applies to Christ. It means one who is not compelled by God to speak prophecy, but speaks it anyway. The possibilities at this point are false prophets or Christ. My hunch is that it is Christ who is THE prophet, but also the son. Being the Son permits him to speak freely. But I will have to chase the supporting scriptures for this.

Mehujael means ‘blot out’ this term applies to those who die. Christ as judge is blotted out.

Methusael means Man-God and of course this is Christ who was split in his death.

Lamech means “powerful, Why this with thee? , Bringing low” These resonate as the words of the Father looking upon his son who has been made to be sin.

Jubal and Jabal means “water, water” or the word of God in heaven and on earth. This is the same water-water that was divided in Genesis 1. there was trouble in the water below, so the firmament (icy, desolate water that is solid) mediated between heaven and earth. It is the same parted water of the red sea (man-water or man word or Christ). All the pictures represent Christ being torn from the substance of deity upon his death.

All of those in Cains’ line represent the death of Christ. The reason for his death was to give life to man.

Abel is ‘breath’ as God breathed his spirit of life into Adam. It doesn’t say that Abel ‘lived’ in the genealogy, but his voice speaks ergo he must be alive.

Seth means compensation. This is the extra paid back when something has been stolen. It is God’s increase or the church.

Enos means 'man, desperately wicked". It is so this man can live that Christ died.

Cainan - possession , cell. He has a place made for him in heaven.

Mahaleel - praise, marriage, foolishness. Those married to Christ, praising him, and associated with the “foolishness of the cross” live.

Jared - Descend or die. Those who are dead to themselves live. Rememebr this when you read Revelations. Those who die, live.

Enoch - dedicated. This is Christ who died and rose again, He lives.

Methusalah - Man of the sword (word) lives

Lamech is in both lists and means Powerful, Why this with thee, and bringing low. This also is Christ who rose again in Power after being made low.

Noah means ‘rest’. Those who enter God’s rest live.

So these are dictionary definitions that can be used to flush out shadows throughout the rest of scripture. The message even in the dictionary is that Christ died so that men can live. 7 died so that 10 can live.

Of the seven sons of Cain, it might be said that 5 titles of Christ are fallen, Enoch is Christ that is (the one taken to heaven) and Lamech is Christ returning in Power.

Abel must be in the list to give ten generations to Noah.

I think that is your riddle. Christ died so that man might live. And Five titles died, one is dead but lives, and one returns in power.

 

[rcjones]

*** And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings: 10 Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time. ***
***11 And the beast which was, and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction. ***

Now from the other side looking back:

Since the heads and the mountains are the same thing, the prophecy has two fulfillments, an earthly and a heavenly. I am not permitted to give the earthly.

In the shadows (the heavenly):
The seven heads are the full authority of the woman, and this authority is Christ as mentioned above.
The beast is Irad, the wild “donkey” (I got censored above) which is the unbridled prophet.

The prophet is also Tubalcain meaning ‘Lead away to death the sins of the church’. Tubalcain is of the seven, since He is also Christ.

We are told that prophecy will cease. This means everything will be fulfilled or finished. So the prophet dies. And Tubalcain, the eighth, leads the sins of the church to destruction.

Prophecy is fulfilled as our sins are taken “as far as the east is from the west”.

 

[Benadam]

Thank you rcjones, I’m goint to munch on these posts for a bit. There are a couple of things you mentioned in your results from looking at it from the other side looking back that fit well into the view emerging for me.

It began with these thoughts: Enoch walked with God and was taken up. It seems to me God is demonstrating through Enoch’s body the kind of earthly end that was intended for man. Enoch is a true pivot point for Adam’s and Cain’s line. Cain’s first born son is named in imitation of God’s first re-born son Enoch if you will.

Cain build’s a town or city and names it Enoch and the race is on for who will bring paradise back to earth,. Enoch of Adam or Enoch of Eve.

Enoch is the seventh generation of man from the image of God. For fallen man we have to include in our thinking the the kind of procreating Adam and Eve were participating with God in.

Just as God created man in His image so too did Adam and Eve in being the archetypes of the entire race. In a very real way the boundaries that seperate man from God are blurred with Adam’s exclusive relation to God.

From that Adam=god perspe tive Enoch is sixth generation.

Then there is the Cain and Abel images of man with the absence of Abel’s blessed image manifesting on earth but crying out for justice from within or under it.

The person that the two lines of man seem to hinge on are the Enoch’s. The image of Eve in the likeness of Cain so to speak. The image of God in the likeness of Adam so to speak.

 

[rcjones]

Thank you rcjones, .

You’re welcome. I threw a couple shadow answers in your old " Biblical Reference Needed" thread as well.

Oh and the beast in these last posts is the same beast as in the Good Samaritan parable.

In this riddles the prophet dies indicating the fulfillment of prophecy, in the parables the judge dies indicating the end or fulfillment of judgment. This is also echoed in Judges.

 

[rcjones]

No it’s the same thing. I am studying their original manifestation in Adam and Eve’s life and subsequently in the lives of their decendents. Being that their original manifestation in man is through the archetypes that human gender is bound the very words used to express the theme makes it inhehrently the same thing.

You are finding the shadows of a duality within man that was revealed when the feminine archetype emerged as ‘Woman’. Untill then masculinity was hidden as well. Time and history dawned when Woman became prostitute. For Seth to be born the prostitute -bride process of repentence was complete. That process lived by Eve and Adam is echoed in the lives of their decendents. You are picking up on what could be the most sublime manifestations that we can apprehend. Through the lense Christ offers they are given their true object.

I’m not sure I connected with everything you said here, but this further study of Cain comes to bear on it, I think.

When two things are true separately they are also true together, so Cain means both possession and spear. Both the Jews and the Orthodox Catholics believe that there are four layers of interpretation. Cain gives a peek at all four. I believe they relate to the four voices of God (priest, king, prophet and judge).

The name Cain means possess and spear.

Layer 1 - (King relates to possession of the earth)
Cain was jealous of his brother’s relationship with God so killed him.
Cain desired to ‘’‘possess’’’ the earth, and saw his brother’s relationship with God as a threat to that.

Layer 2: (Prophet speaks of earthly Cain in a spiritual manner)
Ge 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Eve “posessed” Cain. As the one who was deceived, she would be the beginning of a race of people who were deceived. Perhaps this is the beginning of the Female deity myths, earth worship, and false religion.

Layer 3: (Judge speaks the Earthly word using figurative Cain.)
Cain as a shadow of Jesus slew Abel as a shadow of Christ. This represents Christ’s decision to die. Cain now represents the spear that pierced Christ’s side.

Layer 4: (Priest speaks the heavenly message in the heavenly language)
Since the spear represents the sins of the church, the hidden meaning is that the sins of the church killed Christ.

If I am hearing you, you are chasing the layer 2 stuff with the archetypes…

 

[Benadam]

I’m not sure I connected with everything you said here, but this further study of Cain comes to bear on it, I think.

When two things are true separately they are also true together, so Cain means both possession and spear. Both the Jews and the Orthodox Catholics believe that there are four layers of interpretation. Cain gives a peek at all four. I believe they relate to the four voices of God (priest, king, prophet and judge).

The name Cain means possess and spear.

Layer 1 - (King relates to possession of the earth)
Cain was jealous of his brother’s relationship with God so killed him.
Cain desired to ‘’‘possess’’’ the earth, and saw his brother’s relationship with God as a threat to that.

Layer 2: (Prophet speaks of earthly Cain in a spiritual manner)
Ge 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Eve “posessed” Cain. As the one who was deceived, she would be the beginning of a race of people who were deceived. Perhaps this is the beginning of the Female deity myths, earth worship, and false religion.

Layer 3: (Judge speaks the Earthly word using figurative Cain.)
Cain as a shadow of Jesus slew Abel as a shadow of Christ. This represents Christ’s decision to die. Cain now represents the spear that pierced Christ’s side.

Layer 4: (Priest speaks the heavenly message in the heavenly language)
Since the spear represents the sins of the church, the hidden meaning is that the sins of the church killed Christ.

If I am hearing you, you are chasing the layer 2 stuff with the archetypes…

Thank you rc. Yes, layer 2 best fits.

 

[rcjones]

I am very interested in hearing more of your studies. I have been focusing on the priestly voice, and only recently been able to start to see the prophet and judge.