Adam & Logic, Genesis 1, 2, 3, CCC teachings

[grannymh]

This new thread in the Adam & Logic series follows the ”Adam & Logic, Third Edition, Original Relationship between Humanity and Divinity” thread which began in the Philosophy Forum. It became apparent that key information in that thread is straight from Scripture. This analysis told me that the Sacred Scripture Forum was the better fit. This is the reason for the switch.

Being in the Sacred Scripture Forum, we can have all kinds of fun. For example, we can tell the science critics that Adam has Ph.D. knowledge in the Science of Agriculture, Genesis 2: 15-17. Or we could have a poll as to which verse in the group Genesis 1: 3 through Genesis 1: 25 is the worse. We could have a prize for whomever names the most Catholic teachings flowing from Genesis 1: 26-28

Because there have been a variety of alternative approaches to the first three chapters of Genesis – upfront, this thread uses the teachings of the Catholic Church as the foundation for truth. This is proper on a free speech public message board.

I like the Deductive Method of Reasoning because truth follows truth. The key is that the first truths (axioms) need to be accepted as true. Following propositions or hypotheses need to be demonstrated as truth either by their logical connection to the initial axioms or by proper demonstrations of their truth. While the Deductive Method of Reasoning is my preference, there is a place for the Inductive Method of Reasoning.

This thread has the following axioms or truths. It is possible to add more because Adam is really a really big story.

Initial Axioms, undeniable truths according to Catholic Church teachings

1. God as Creator exists. Genesis 1: 1
2. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human. Genesis 1: 26-27
3. Every individual human has the inherent capacity to interact with God as Creator. Genesis 1: 26-27

Information sources

Link to the *New American Bible, Revised Edition, *March 9, 2011

usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm

Links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition
Please first read *CCC *20-21 for an explanation of the small print.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

 

[Hunho]

grannymh, Hi!

I made a post in the 3rd Ed. thread about what the Catechism had on the original state of Adam and Eve and what they lost because of their disobedience. Would you like for me to post it in this thread?

 

[grannymh]

grannymh, Hi!

I made a post in the 3rd Ed. thread about what the Catechism had on the original state of Adam and Eve and what they lost because of their disobedience. Would you like for me to post it in this thread?

I remember an excellent post by you. Go ahead and post.

Don’t tell anyone. I have this goal where everything about Adam comes together; but, dang, I am not sure how to get there. Thus, I am on CAF because I can learn from so many different people.

 

[Hunho]

Hi, grannymh!
By both inclination and professional training, I’m a historian and a researcher. So I went back to the Catechism to see what Catholic doctrine specifically says about that “original relationship” between God and Adam and Eve. Here’s my summary:(1) According to CCC 375 “our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original “state of holiness and justice”. This grace of original holiness was "to share in. . .divine life”".
(2) According to CCC 376 and 377 “By the radiance of this [original] grace all dimensions of man’s life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, he would remain in the state of "original justice”:

a) man would not have to suffer or die,
b) man would possess an inner harmony of the human person, a mastery of self in which he was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence that subjugates him to:

** i)** the pleasures of the senses,
** ii)** covetousness for earthly goods, and
iii) self-assertion, contrary to the dictates of reason.
c) the first couple possessed a harmony between man and woman, and finally
d) the there was a harmony between the first couple and all creation.
​

(3) And, according to CCC 377 and 378 “God offered man from the beginning the “mastery” over the world…” and, as a sign of man’s familiarity with God, God placed him in the garden of Eden, to live and “to till it and keep it”. That work was not yet a burden, but rather the collaboration of man and woman with God in perfecting the visible creation.
​

This is what the first couple had in the beginning.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Hello Grannymh,

I don’t know how to find a thread in general, so I’m logging on not to lose this. Some day I’ll sit here and figure things out, but time is limited.

I’ve already read Genesis 1:26-28 and will be posting on what it means to be made in God’s image - but it’s going to have to wait till later.

You may know that my favorite book is Romans. But, you know what, the beginning of Romans is Genesis! You need both to understand human nature and this is a big interest of mine.

Lata…

Fran

 

[grannymh]

Hello Grannymh,

I don’t know how to find a thread in general, so I’m logging on not to lose this. Some day I’ll sit here and figure things out, but time is limited.

I’ve already read Genesis 1:26-28 and will be posting on what it means to be made in God’s image - but it’s going to have to wait till later.

You may know that my favorite book is Romans. But, you know what, the beginning of Romans is Genesis! You need both to understand human nature and this is a big interest of mine.

Lata…

Fran

Thanks for landing on this thread.

I learned the majority of Catholic teachings without the benefit of Scripture. I am always surprised and delighted when I read a citation and its context and discover a doctrine. For example Romans 5: 12-21. I will get back to the beginning.

Before I landed on CAF. Google dropped me in the middle of a thread and I could not figure out how to exit. Finally, I registered and escaped. Before that scary episode, to me human nature, especially Adam’s, was a no brainer. CAF quickly taught me how wrong I was. Thus, I am very glad that human nature is an interest of yours.

When I think about human nature, I first go to the dramatic shift from Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1-26. I know I approached those beginning Genesis in a totally different manner in post 1. I simply wanted readers to take a deeper look at them. For example. We need to consider why human nature is different in kind from what is mentioned in those beginning verses.

 

[grannymh]

Hi, grannymh!
By both inclination and professional training, I’m a historian and a researcher. So I went back to the Catechism to see what Catholic doctrine specifically says about that “original relationship” between God and Adam and Eve. Here’s my summary:
(1) According to CCC 375 “our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original “state of holiness and justice”. This grace of original holiness was "to share in. . .divine life”".
(2) According to CCC 376 and 377 “By the radiance of this [original] grace all dimensions of man’s life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, he would remain in the state of "original justice”:

a) man would not have to suffer or die,
b) man would possess an inner harmony of the human person, a mastery of self in which he was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence that subjugates him to:

i) the pleasures of the senses,
ii) covetousness for earthly goods, and
iii) self-assertion, contrary to the dictates of reason.
c) the first couple possessed a harmony between man and woman, and finally
d) the there was a harmony between the first couple and all creation.
​

(3) And, according to CCC 377 and 378 “God offered man from the beginning the “mastery” over the world…” and, as a sign of man’s familiarity with God, God placed him in the garden of Eden, to live and “to till it and keep it”. That work was not yet a burden, but rather the collaboration of man and woman with God in perfecting the visible creation.
​

This is what the first couple had in the beginning.

This morning, all I wanted to do was to praise and love God because what is written in this post is the most beautiful expression of God’s love for His human creatures.

All this is what it means to share in God’s divine life. Genesis 1: 27. Could all this tell us what happens when bodily death is accomplished and we are in the presence of the Beatific Vision because we are in the State of Sanctifying Grace? What would today be like if we really trusted God’s invitation? (CCC 356) And looked beyond what happened in the Garden to the truth of God.

I certainly missed a lot when I first read this post.

Last night, I was making some notes about how spiritual evil is being accomplished by those who wish to change the Catholic Church from within and then rebuild it according to personal preferences. Pius XII warned about that in the beginning of his great encyclical Humani Generis, 1950.

When we approach the beginning of Genesis, chapter 1, a lot of us have the habit of concentrating on the nitty-gritty of creation which actually in the long run benefits society. I do think we can think of two things, both the material creation *and *our spiritual intellective rational soul.

Blessings
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Well, let’s get started.

Genesis 1:26
"Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in our image, according to Our likeness’. "

Here we see the Trinity. Let US make man in our image. And how are we like God?

God breathed life into man, Genesis 2:7
Adam’s body had perfect health
But God is spirit, so man is like Him in spirit too. How? Mentally, Morally, Socially.

1. IN OUR INTELLECT

Man is rational. He can reason and choose.
This reflects God’s intellect and His freedom.
How?

When do we demonstrate our intellect?
When we make a machine - car, computer, etc.
When we write a book.
When we paint a work of art.
When we name a pet.
etc.

1. MORALLY

Man was created with righteous and perfect innocence.
This reflects God’s holiness.
How?

Our conscience is a remnant of that state.
Man is able to write laws.
Man recoils from evil.
We praise good behavior.
We feel guilty.

1. SOCIALLY

Man was created for fellowship.
In the garden man fellowshipped with God. They spoke. God created woman so man wouldn’t be alone.
This reflects God’s nature of love.
How?

When we marry.
When we make a friend.
When we hug a child.
When we go to church.
When we help each other.

Of course, much could be added to the lists.
But this is how we are made in His image. An image looks like the original, but it is not the original.

God is outside of space and time so we cannot be like Him; we are created beings; we can only resemble Him in some ways. He infused some of His nature into us.

He also infused some divinity into us, which would be the Spirit. But we have to accept this of our own choosing and that would be a different thread.

Through original sin, man lost the perfection of these gifts, and they have all become tainted; but God asks us to aspire to holiness. This is only possible through Jesus Christ, if we choose to follow Him.

Fran

 

[grannymh]

Well, let’s get started.

Genesis 1:26
"Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in our image, according to Our likeness’. "

Here we see the Trinity. Let US make man in our image. And how are we like God?

May I respectfully add to the beautiful image of the Trinity. I saw a similar image years ago and it resulted in love .

What I would like to add is that humans are in the image of God because God Himself created us with a spiritual soul. This is one of the very many meanings of Axiom 2, in post 1. I could also add the truth that we are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. We see that in Genesis 2: 7
Axiom 2. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human. Genesis 1: 26-27.

God breathed life into man, Genesis 2:7

Definitely.

Adam’s body had perfect health

This morning, I had an amazing personal meditation on that very thing. Please refer to my response in post 7. You do not need to agree to it because it is a personal view that brought me to the totally amazing Beatific Vision. That is certainly an unique path which most likely will not work for others. I simply have a very creative imagination.

But God is spirit, so man is like Him in spirit too. How? Mentally, Morally, Socially.

That is how we share in God’s life. That is known as being in the State of Sanctifying Grace. However, we do need to add Genesis 2: 15-17 because it demonstrates knowledge and choice.

1. IN OUR INTELLECT

Man is rational. He can reason and choose.
This reflects God’s intellect and His freedom.
How?

Those are the powers of our spiritual soul.

When do we demonstrate our intellect?
When we make a machine - car, computer, etc.
When we write a book.
When we paint a work of art.
When we name a pet.
etc.

Would you believe I often use a similar demonstration when I am proving the difference between ourselves and the rest of the vertebrates.

It is really fun to compare a beaver dam with the Hoover Dam or an eagle’s nest with a 20-story apartment building. Speaking of birds, I love the image of an airplane instead of flapping our arms like birds using their wings. However, I did offend a reader when I compared an alley cat’s singing with an opera house.

My apology. I need to get back to real life.

While I am gone, would you mind letting me know what perfect innocence means in point 2. Morally. This public message board with every alternative view under both sun and moon has me totally confused. As far as morally, I read this interesting view that Adam was dependent on his Creator and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. Not sure what all that includes; however, today we see many abuses of our freedom to choose our action. Cutting a person’s head off because the person is a Christian certainly violates a moral norm.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[simpleas]

Hi, grannymh!
By both inclination and professional training, I’m a historian and a researcher. So I went back to the Catechism to see what Catholic doctrine specifically says about that “original relationship” between God and Adam and Eve. Here’s my summary:(1) According to CCC 375 “our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original “state of holiness and justice”. This grace of original holiness was "to share in. . .divine life”".
(2) According to CCC 376 and 377 “By the radiance of this [original] grace all dimensions of man’s life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, he would remain in the state of "original justice”:

a) man would not have to suffer or die,
b) man would possess an inner harmony of the human person, a mastery of self in which he was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence that subjugates him to:

** i)** the pleasures of the senses,
** ii)** covetousness for earthly goods, and
iii) self-assertion, contrary to the dictates of reason.
c) the first couple possessed a harmony between man and woman, and finally
d) the there was a harmony between the first couple and all creation.
​

(3) And, according to CCC 377 and 378 “God offered man from the beginning the “mastery” over the world…” and, as a sign of man’s familiarity with God, God placed him in the garden of Eden, to live and “to till it and keep it”. That work was not yet a burden, but rather the collaboration of man and woman with God in perfecting the visible creation.
​

This is what the first couple had in the beginning.

On the last Adam and Logic thread I was interested in working on the words :

…22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

Because we are told that Adam had infused knowledge, I wondered what this knowledge actually entailed, because it seems that there was a transformation in knowing something more from those words : become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
Awhile back in I think the second Adam thread we discussed experience of good and evil, yet I question that because how does a creature experience what God knows, apart from having a spiritual essence of God within them or something along that.

But from reading the above, I have now started thinking about this :

As long as he remained in the divine intimacy

What was divine intimacy for Adam and Eve? We as Catholic’s would say divine intimacy would be receiving Christ’s body and blood.
How did intimacy between the first man and woman work, could it be that they were just spiritual creatures, that need not to do anything other than avoid the “tree of knowledge”? Could they have worshipped God in some way, or maybe just the innocent existence was worship in itself?

Thanks.

 

[grannymh]

On the last Adam and Logic thread I was interested in working on the words :

…22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

Because we are told that Adam had infused knowledge, I wondered what this knowledge actually entailed, because it seems that there was a transformation in knowing something more from those words : become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
Awhile back in I think the second Adam thread we discussed experience of good and evil, yet I question that because how does a creature experience what God knows, apart from having a spiritual essence of God within them or something along that.

But from reading the above, I have now started thinking about this :

As long as he remained in the divine intimacy

What was divine intimacy for Adam and Eve? We as Catholic’s would say divine intimacy would be receiving Christ’s body and blood.
How did intimacy between the first man and woman work, could it be that they were just spiritual creatures, that need not to do anything other than avoid the “tree of knowledge”? Could they have worshipped God in some way, or maybe just the innocent existence was worship in itself?

Thanks.

There are a lot of valid questions here. Therefore, we need to dissect this post in baby steps.

From your point of view, Simpleas, what are the facts or messages or suggestions in Genesis 2: 15-17? What are we hearing from these verses? Examples: Adam’s profession is that of a master gardener. and
Axiom 1. God as Creator exists. Genesis 1: 1

usccb.org/bible/genesis/2
15
The LORD God then took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and care for it.h
16
The LORD God gave the man this order: You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden*(“http://www.usccb.org/bible/genesis/2#01002016-i”)
17
except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. From that tree you shall not eat; when you eat from it you shall die.* j

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[simpleas]

There are a lot of valid questions here. Therefore, we need to dissect this post in baby steps.

From your point of view, Simpleas, what are the facts or messages or suggestions in Genesis 2: 15-17? What are we hearing from these verses? Examples: Adam’s profession is that of a master gardener. and
Axiom 1. God as Creator exists. Genesis 1: 1

usccb.org/bible/genesis/2
15
The LORD God then took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and care for it.h
16
The LORD God gave the man this order: You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden*(“http://www.usccb.org/bible/genesis/2#01002016-i”)
17
except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. From that tree you shall not eat; when you eat from it you shall die.* j

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

Thanks

Genesis 2: 15-17 isn’t what I quoted. But I will answer

The verse’s suggest God teaches Adam how to survive by tending the garden for food, and how to survive spiritually and physically by not eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I wonder if Adam ever dared to question God on this command.

Your new title to this thread no longer has original relationship between God and the first man and woman, but I think it’s safe to incorporate it into the discussion?

 

[Richca]

On the last Adam and Logic thread I was interested in working on the words :

…22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

 

[grannymh]

Your new title to this thread no longer has original relationship between God and the first man and woman, but I think it’s safe to incorporate it into the discussion?

I need to reassure you and others that the original relationship between Adam and God fits in with this thread. Starting with God as the employer and Adam the employee gardener. Genesis 2: 15-17. That is one kind of relationship.

Because this thread is about Adam, using the same first three Genesis chapters as in the previous thread, one can continue to question. …

When I looked at old questions, I realized that the answers had to include more than one Scripture reference. In reality, we have to use the context of three chapters in order to find answers to old questions. Because of the obvious need to use three chapters, it was obvious that we belonged in the Sacred Scripture Forum.

Therefore, please continue to seek additional information regarding previous questions in the previous Adam threads.

Another realization is that we also need to consult Catholic teachings in the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. Regarding Scripture and the CCC, the best thing is to check Scripture in the *CCC *Index of Citations starting on page 689. Read CCC 20-21 for the explanation of small print.

Any questions?

 

[grannymh]

Thanks

Genesis 2: 15-17 isn’t what I quoted. But I will answer

The verse’s suggest God teaches Adam how to survive by tending the garden for food, and how to survive spiritually and physically by not eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I wonder if Adam ever dared to question God on this command.

No need to wonder “if Adam ever dared to question God on this command.”

Having a rational nature, naturally Adam, like us, would question God about the path to heaven which begins in Genesis 2: 15-17. Take some time to imagine what is implied in Genesis 3: 8.
8
“When they heard the sound of the LORD God walking about in the garden at the breezy time of the day, …”

Learning our garden’s path to God is basic in this CCC paragraph.
God is still walking about in our personal garden.
**CCC 1730 **God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.

​

Adam, like us, would seek answers to these questions I put in bold.
**CCC 282 Catechesis on creation is of major importance. It concerns the very foundations of human and Christian life: for it makes explicit the response of the Christian faith to the basic question that men of all times have asked themselves: “Where do we come from?” “Where are we going?” “What is our origin?” “What is our end?” “Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?” **The two questions, the first about the origin and the second about the end, are inseparable. They are decisive for the meaning and orientation of our life and actions.

The first two inseparable questions in *CCC *282 have answers in the first three Genesis chapters, especially Genesis 3: 15.
**CCC 410 **After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the *Protoevangelium *(“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.

 

[grannymh]

I think this verse refers to Adam and Eve, upon eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, determining for themselves what is good and what is evil and thus usurping the prerogative and authority of God who created them and making themselves out to be their own gods. Human beings are creatures created by God, they are not God himself. The CCC#396 says:

“God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. the prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.” The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.”

Sanctifying grace which makes us partakers of the divine nature, friends of God, and pleasing to God.

It is on CAF that I first heard about Adam and Eve determining for themselves what is good and what is evil and thus usurping the prerogative and authority of God Who created them.

I am still trying to understand the depths of that approach. Would you like to expand a bit? “determining for themselves” has me thinking about human free will, especially when I see doubt about humans being able to divorce themselves from God.

Thank you for CCC 396. It is absolutely essential in any discussion involving Adam and his famous sin.

In answer to the question – What was divine intimacy for Adam and Eve?

Your answer – “Sanctifying grace which makes us partakers of the divine nature, friends of God, and pleasing to God.” The idea which popped into the space between my ears is that meditating briefly on the State of Sanctifying Grace would be a good way to get my older than dirt body out of bed.

 

[simpleas]

No need to wonder “if Adam ever dared to question God on this command.”

Having a rational nature, naturally Adam, like us, would question God about the path to heaven which begins in Genesis 2: 15-17. Take some time to imagine what is implied in Genesis 3: 8.
8
“When they heard the sound of the LORD God walking about in the garden at the breezy time of the day, …”

Learning our garden’s path to God is basic in this CCC paragraph.
God is still walking about in our personal garden.
CCC 1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.

​

Adam, like us, would seek answers to these questions I put in bold.
**CCC 282 Catechesis on creation is of major importance. It concerns the very foundations of human and Christian life: for it makes explicit the response of the Christian faith to the basic question that men of all times have asked themselves: “Where do we come from?” “Where are we going?” “What is our origin?” “What is our end?” “Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?” **The two questions, the first about the origin and the second about the end, are inseparable. They are decisive for the meaning and orientation of our life and actions.

The first two inseparable questions in *CCC *282 have answers in the first three Genesis chapters, especially Genesis 3: 15.
**CCC 410 **After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the *Protoevangelium *(“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.

Where do we come from?" “Where are we going?” “What is our origin?” “What is our end?” "Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?

Well these are our questions, but would A&E have asked the same? This infused knowledge that they had, would that have covered the basics?

I found this written by a priest :

therealpresence.org/archives/God/God_013.htm

thought I’d share it as I found it informative regarding preternatural gifts the first parents enjoyed.

Yet he has this to say regarding infused knowledge :

*However any attempt to describe the extent of Adam’s infused knowledge would be hazardous. On the supernatural level, opinion differs from Suarez’ position that Adam probably had a belief in the Trinity and the future Incarnation of the Word of God, to a minimist school which credits the first man only with the essentials necessary for salvation.
*

I haven’t come across any other Catholic writings which attempt to explain Adam and Eve’s knowledge, which lead to a disbelief of God’s word in favor of the fallen angel word.

 

[grannymh]

Well these are our questions, but would A&E have asked the same? This infused knowledge that they had, would that have covered the basics?

I am so sorry, but I cannot ever answer those kind of questions. I know I am older than dirt, but I was not a neighbor of Adam after he left the Garden. Thus, I never had the opportunity to ask Adam those questions.

All I can do is to humbly connect what my poor mind knows about Adam with what *CCC *teaches so that there might be a deeper understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis.Those first three chapters of Sacred Scripture is the reason we are in this forum.

 

[simpleas]

I am so sorry, but I cannot ever answer those kind of questions. I know I am older than dirt, but I was not a neighbor of Adam after he left the Garden. Thus, I never had the opportunity to ask Adam those questions.

All I can do is to humbly connect what my poor mind knows about Adam with what *CCC *teaches so that there might be a deeper understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis.Those first three chapters of Sacred Scripture is the reason we are in this forum.

That’s fine.
Of course I don’t expect any actual answers to something we can ever know, but some imagination/reflection on what we think could be interesting.

The infused knowledge was part of the original relationship, but maybe just staying with original sin and it’s meaning would be easier.

Thanks

 

[frangiuliano115]

May I respectfully add to the beautiful image of the Trinity. I saw a similar image years ago and it resulted in love .

What I would like to add is that humans are in the image of God because God Himself created us with a spiritual soul. This is one of the very many meanings of Axiom 2, in post 1. I could also add the truth that we are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. We see that in Genesis 2: 7
Axiom 2. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human. Genesis 1: 26-27.

Definitely.

This morning, I had an amazing personal meditation on that very thing. Please refer to my response in post 7. You do not need to agree to it because it is a personal view that brought me to the totally amazing Beatific Vision. That is certainly an unique path which most likely will not work for others. I simply have a very creative imagination.

That is how we share in God’s life. That is known as being in the State of Sanctifying Grace. However, we do need to add Genesis 2: 15-17 because it demonstrates knowledge and choice.

Those are the powers of our spiritual soul.

Would you believe I often use a similar demonstration when I am proving the difference between ourselves and the rest of the vertebrates.

It is really fun to compare a beaver dam with the Hoover Dam or an eagle’s nest with a 20-story apartment building. Speaking of birds, I love the image of an airplane instead of flapping our arms like birds using their wings. However, I did offend a reader when I compared an alley cat’s singing with an opera house.

My apology. I need to get back to real life.

While I am gone, would you mind letting me know what perfect innocence means in point 2. Morally. This public message board with every alternative view under both sun and moon has me totally confused. As far as morally, I read this interesting view that Adam was dependent on his Creator and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. Not sure what all that includes; however, today we see many abuses of our freedom to choose our action. Cutting a person’s head off because the person is a Christian certainly violates a moral norm.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

I see I’ve missed a lot but could not concentrate on this until now. Weekend over, my bible lesson done.

So, what is perfect innocence? God is holy. He is perfect. Holy means to be set apart. God certainly is set apart! More than any man could be. He is above everything and everyone - being the creator He must be. There is no evil in God. He must be purely good or He cannot be God.

Adam’s perfect innocence reflected the above. We are called to be holy too. We are called to be saints: Romans 1:7 - 1 Corinthians 1:2
This is a common theme running through the New Testament.

But Adam had perfect innocence. Because the fall did not yet occur. He was innocent because he had not yet eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The name of the tree says a lot.

Before he ate of it, he knew only good. God had given him special gifts, the preternatural gifts. But he warned Adam that to keep these gifts he had to remain innocent and not know evil.

But Adam decided not to adhere to God’s request/warning and listened instead to the serpent - representing satan and evil. And so, by eating of the fruit, evil entered into Adam and now he was no longer innocent.

I apologize if I’m saying things we all know. Where to start otherwise??

It should be noted that Adam’s responsibility in eating of the fruit was far greater than Eve’s. God had spoken to Adam, not to Eve. Adam could have told Eve she made a mistake and not shared in the consumption, instead he listened to the creature that was made FROM him and completed the sin.

Woman has suffered through the ages because of this; being blamed for “tempting” Adam. My, what great powers we women have! LOL. When all the time it was Adam who should have acted like the head of his family and taken the correct action. Eve was weak, having been convinced by satan, Adam should have been strong, having spoken directly to God.

And what am I doing here? Blaming Adam. And didn’t Adam blame Eve? And Eve blamed the serpent? Yes. We’re very good at blaming others for what we do.

Don’t know if this has been covered. Maybe I should stop and read on.

Fran