Adam. Man or Myth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jez4
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes and I believe that a tooth fairy comes along, takes children’s teeth and leaves money behind. I also believe that there are elves and pixies. Not forgetting the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot and the abominable snowman. Not to mention there are the unicorns, the Hobbits from Middle Earth, Merlin the wizard and finally Pinocchio the wooden puppet that became a real boy.

With a vivid imagination…
Fair enough. However, someday you and I will both be dead - and then we’ll both realize that actually YOU were the only one with a vivid imagination. :rolleyes:

Now… back to the OP… yes, there was an actual Adam. God’s word says there was. If we, as Believers accept everything else, why would Adam be any different?
 
Look at it this way…the story of Adam and Eve happened…even if the names are not accurate…yet…regardless it did begin with an origiaal pair of humans. You see, sin entered the world through their act of disobedience and rebellion against God, therefore the natural consequences that have plagued us since…if there was no Adam and Eve or whatever you want to call them, then who is to blame for our fall from Grace? The only one left to blame would be God, and we all know that’s not true thus the story of creation and how we fell in “Adam”
P7
There is not even the tiniest shred of evidence to back this story up, it is just one person’s best guess at that time in history.
 
Adam is the name given to the first man. Eve the first women.

To deny the account is to deny the truth of the knowledge God handed down to Moses.
It’s strange that today, when someone says that they’ve been talking to God, they’re treated as nutters.
Science has also reinforced that we have all descended form one woman.
So science is ok when it suits?
The Bible also gets it right where it points out that life reproduces according to its “kind” verified by DNA evidence.
What about hybrids then?
 
Let’s talk about the myths for a moment - the story of the man and the woman in the garden is a myth. It is an imaginative story that uses symbols to explore a realty beyond our comprehension. The reality being explored is “Why do human beings suffer?” In its present position, coming after the creation story (a story nowhere near as old), the question becomes even more mysterious. Given the beliefs that God is all loving and all powerful, that God made human beings in God’s own image, and that we are very good, why do we suffer? You would think God would have created things in an order that didn’t involve suffering. Why pain in childbirth? Why death? Suffering appears to be part fo the order of things. All of this is very mysterious. How can our belief that God is all loving and all powerful be made compatible with our experience of suffering?

The author who chose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.

What in the story is an obvious symbol? Every reader, once he or she thinks about it, recognizes the tree of a knowledge of good and evil as a symbol. Such a tree does not in fact exist in the order of reality. Notice there is no apple tree in this story. There is a tree of a knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life - another obvious symbol. If one can eat every day from the tree of life, one will not die. A third obvious symbol is the talking snake. *Notice too that the snake is **not *referred to as the devil. The snake is a character in the plot, just as God, the man, and the woman are characters in the plot.

It is not unusual for someone to ask “How do you know that these are symbols? Maybe back at the beginning of creation there were trees like that and snakes could talk.” One must recognize that the story does not date back to the beginning of time. The author is not contemporary with the dawn of creation. This is a very sophisticated story. At the dawn of civilization society did not have a highly sophisticated view of marriage as expressed in Genesis 2:24. Neither farming nor the establishment of towns was an early development in prehistoric life, yet the fourth chapter of Genesis reports that Cain, who tilled the soil, married and built a town, all while separated from the family of his birth. This story, like the story in which God creates the world in a workweek, reflects a much more highly sophisticated society than would a story about the actual first human beings on the face of the earth. However, when we understand the literary form of the story, questions that presume historicity appear irrelevant. The text will simply not support a claim of historicity.

Back to the myth and its purpose - the story clearly indicates that there is suffering when one goes against God’s commandments. The myth of creation says that God created everything, including us.

And yes, both myths are true. They are also both fiction.
 
Fair enough. However, someday you and I will both be dead - and then we’ll both realize that actually YOU were the only one with a vivid imagination. :rolleyes:
We’ll both be dead and that will be it.
Now… back to the OP… yes, there was an actual Adam. God’s word says there was. If we, as Believers accept everything else, why would Adam be any different?
If there was an Adam, there would not be any of the evolutionary evidence to the contrary. Seeing as there are masses of evidence for evolution and none for an Adam, I’ll stick with evolution.
 
There is not even the tiniest shred of evidence to back this story up, it is just one person’s best guess at that time in history.
I guess that all depends upon what we are willing to accept as evidence. If you accept the scriptures as the inspired Word of God that in itself cannot lead one away from the truth, then evidence of the account of Adam and Eve does exist. But even if you reject that Scripture is inspired, there is still good reason to believe the account.

There was at some point in history a first man with a human consciousness and a first woman with a human consciousness. If we take the story as allegory, then it is not so difficult to believe that these first human beings committed acts contrary to what Christianity claims are God’s laws. I guess it all comes down to what kind of evidence you would require, and more importantly, why that is the only kind of evidence that has legitimacy.
 
Yes and I believe that a tooth fairy comes along, takes children’s teeth and leaves money behind. I also believe that there are elves and pixies. Not forgetting the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot and the abominable snowman. Not to mention there are the unicorns, the Hobbits from Middle Earth, Merlin the wizard and finally Pinocchio the wooden puppet that became a real boy.

With a vivid imagination…
Yeah I can see why the concept of a God is sooo difficut to believe.

But it’s not so difficult to believe in a big round ball that billions of creatures live on which is warmed by another big round fiery ball 93 million miles away; this just happened. If this fiery ball grew virtually any warmer or colder life would come to an abrupt end; coincidence. This all happened as the result of an infinately small object (which existed eternally) which contained these balls and exploded into not only these balls but many millions of other round balls that circle each other with phenominal precision and repetition. Beautiful artistic and intelligent creatures materialized from this explosion, but for no apparent reason.

No intelligence was behind all this it just happened. It just happened. Ahhh I am beginning to see your point, this is all easy to believe. But God, how foolish! Maybe these beautiful creatures are not so bright after all. The explosion produced a bunch of gullible fanatic creatures of which only a few know better.

You didn’t have to go and ruin the abominable snowman story for me this close to Christmas…how cruel !!
 
The first three chapters of Genesis “pertain to history in a true sense even though the inspired author may have used a poetic literary form to communicate these truths” (CCC 289; Humani Generis). When the Church says “pertain to history in a true sense,” it means something that really happened. The first sin (original sin, the fall of our first parents) really happened at a certain time and place in history. Perhaps it was six thousand years ago; perhaps six hundred thousand years ago. For all we know, the first sin may well have had something to do with eating a certain fruit that God had commanded man not to eat. But it need not have. That may simply be a poetic way the Genesis writer chose to communicate the historical truth about man’s fall from paradise. What we must affirm is that there really was a first sin (Rom 5:12; CCC 390, 396, 397).
We must also affirm the following:
  1. All things were created by a loving God (Jn 1:1–3; CCC 291, 315).
  2. Man is made in the image of God, which means, among other things, that he is a spiritual being with the powers of knowing and freely choosing (Gn 1:27; CCC 355).
  3. Even if man’s body evolved, God still created man, because God created the process of evolution, and His providence guided it to give rise to the human race (Jn 1:3; CCC 302, 308).
  4. Whatever the origin of man’s bodily form, his soul is a special creation of God, not the result of an evolutionary process (Gn 2:7; CCC 362-367). This is because spirit, unlike matter, is incapable of evolving, since it has no parts that could evolve from one thing to another. The soul is the direct creation of God, not a product of matter.
  5. Our original parents were created in a state of perfect happiness, a state of “holiness and justice” (Gn 2:7–9, CCC 375, 376, 398).
  6. Their obedience was tested and they transgressed the divine law at the prompting of the devil (Gn 3:1–7, CCC 397).
  7. They lost the supernatural gifts given to the human race by God at creation. (Gen 3:16–19; CCC 400). (For example, freedom from bodily death, freedom from suffering, control of the soul over the body).
  8. This state of original sin was passed on to their offspring. (Rom 5:12–19; CCC 402). Therefore, all human beings are born in this wounded and weakened condition. (CCC 404)
  9. They were promised a redeemer (Gn 3:15; CCC 410), who would restore mankind’s relationship with God…
    As long as these basic elements of Catholic teaching on creation are held, Catholics may accept the theory of evolution. Nevertheless, a Catholic is not obliged to do so if he or she thinks the evidence is against it. Evolution is a scientific theory, not a theological dogma. It stands or falls on the evidence.
Also, a distinction must be made between reading something as literally true vs. literal language. If I were to say, “I am buried under a pile of paperwork,” my point that I am really busy would be literally true. However, the language I used to explain that was not literal language, but metaphorical. The same can apply to the Genesis account of creation.
 
RMcGed << Not forgetting the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot and the abominable snowman. Not to mention there are the unicorns, the Hobbits from Middle Earth… >>

Hey hey not so fast. There is good evidence for Bigfoot (recent book Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science), even Michael Medved (link to 37 minute interview with author Jeff Meldrum) believes in Bigfoot. 😃

And they recently discovered a Hobbit Species… :eek:

But you may be right about Nessie, Mr. Abominable, and Ms. Tooth Fairy. Unicorns of the KJV (e.g. Num 23:22; 24:8; Job 39:9-10; Psalm 29:6; Psalm 92:10) are translated “rhinos” or “ox” or “wild ox” in modern translations. 👍

Catholic philosopher Dennis Bonnette comments rightly on Adam/Eve:

…evolutionary science sees the broad picture of human origins taking place over a time-frame measured in hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years. It cannot focus on events affecting a single pair of humans at a given point in time. Anthropological data and theories are so general that they cannot oppose particular facts about an Adam and Eve, unless even the broad trends of such data are shown to oppose such particulars’ possibilities. Speculation based upon present data can, at best, indicate the nature and activities of early humans, pointing to largely undefined populations and imprecise time periods. It cannot address with precision the conditions of existence of a single pair of humans at a particular, distant-past time. It cannot exclude, a priori, the possibility of miraculous divine intervention whose reality falls entirely outside the fossil record.

Summary from Adam, Eve, and the Hominid Fossil Record

Phil P
 
If Adam was anyone but a real, human, litteral man named adam then who was Seth’s dad?

And if Seth wasn’t real or was figurative then who was Enos’ dad? And if Enos was figurative then who fathered Mahalaleel? THis goes on and on to Noah. Noah was a perfectly literall man no? If not lets continue this on to Abraham. No-one here disagrees as to who Abraham was? no?
 
Yes and I believe that a tooth fairy comes along, takes children’s teeth and leaves money behind. I also believe that there are elves and pixies. Not forgetting the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot and the abominable snowman. Not to mention there are the unicorns, the Hobbits from Middle Earth, Merlin the wizard and finally Pinocchio the wooden puppet that became a real boy.

With a vivid imagination…
You are confusing superstition with God.
 
It’s strange that today, when someone says that they’ve been talking to God, they’re treated as nutters.
So science is ok when it suits?
What about hybrids then?
Not everyone. But in today’s secualr world many treat it as odd.

Science has to be OK when it is the truth. Faith and reason are not oppossed since they come from the same God. We just have to make sure our science is indded corrrect.

Hybrids - give me an instance.
 
Let’s talk about the myths for a moment - the story of the man and the woman in the garden is a myth. It is an imaginative story that uses symbols to explore a realty beyond our comprehension. The reality being explored is “Why do human beings suffer?” In its present position, coming after the creation story (a story nowhere near as old), the question becomes even more mysterious. Given the beliefs that God is all loving and all powerful, that God made human beings in God’s own image, and that we are very good, why do we suffer? You would think God would have created things in an order that didn’t involve suffering. Why pain in childbirth? Why death? Suffering appears to be part fo the order of things. All of this is very mysterious. How can our belief that God is all loving and all powerful be made compatible with our experience of suffering?

The author who chose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.

What in the story is an obvious symbol? Every reader, once he or she thinks about it, recognizes the tree of a knowledge of good and evil as a symbol. Such a tree does not in fact exist in the order of reality. Notice there is no apple tree in this story. There is a tree of a knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life - another obvious symbol. If one can eat every day from the tree of life, one will not die. A third obvious symbol is the talking snake. *Notice too that the snake is **not ***referred to as the devil. The snake is a character in the plot, just as God, the man, and the woman are characters in the plot.

It is not unusual for someone to ask “How do you know that these are symbols? Maybe back at the beginning of creation there were trees like that and snakes could talk.” One must recognize that the story does not date back to the beginning of time. The author is not contemporary with the dawn of creation. This is a very sophisticated story. At the dawn of civilization society did not have a highly sophisticated view of marriage as expressed in Genesis 2:24. Neither farming nor the establishment of towns was an early development in prehistoric life, yet the fourth chapter of Genesis reports that Cain, who tilled the soil, married and built a town, all while separated from the family of his birth. This story, like the story in which God creates the world in a workweek, reflects a much more highly sophisticated society than would a story about the actual first human beings on the face of the earth. However, when we understand the literary form of the story, questions that presume historicity appear irrelevant. The text will simply not support a claim of historicity.

Back to the myth and its purpose - the story clearly indicates that there is suffering when one goes against God’s commandments. The myth of creation says that God created everything, including us.

And yes, both myths are true. They are also both fiction.
patg,

see the Toledoths of Genesis as to your point about the story not being as old.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top