Adam or Eve responsible for death by sin

[Phyllo]

Hi,

I was asked that question by a friend,

She brought up these two verses. These from the DR:

Sirach 24:33 From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die.

Romans 5:12 Therefore as through one man sin entered into the world and through sin death, and thus death has passed unto all men because all have sinned.

Are the above scriptures contradictory?
What part did Eve play?
What part did Adam play?

So who is truly responsible for sin and death? (and don’t tell me the father of lies)

Thanks

 

[eightandsand]

The verses are not contradictory. They compliment each other.

God created the Universe for Adam and Eve. St. Augustine reminds us that had Adam and Eve not committed the Original Sin, the Universe would have been filled only with the good and beautiful, no exception. No deformity, no harmful mutations, no disease. None of these things would have existed, except for sin. This is why St. Paul in his letter to the Romans, chapter 8 tells us that the whole universe is groaning in expectation for the revelation of the sons of God; that the entire universe is made subject to a bondage to decay because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

Evil is not a being, thing, substance, or entity. Being is either the Creator or his creature. There is nothing in the visible universe that is intrinsically wicked. Sex, gold, alcohol - all these things are good and therefore are desirable. Sinners look only at the material element of a sin and find it good - as it is. Then, when they have abused its goodness thru disobedience, they turn against God because the effects of this misuse have brought them and society misery. Even Satan was once good. He is a good thing gone bad - in fact, a very good thing gone very bad. If he had not had the greatest ontological goodness of a powerful mind and will, he could never have become as morally corrupt as he is. “Lillies that fester smell far worse than weeds.”

The Catechism of the Catholic Churches with authority on these matters:

II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”. The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father. “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.” In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”

III. ORIGINAL SIN

Freedom put to the test

396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.” The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. ***Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. ***

Man’s first sin

397 ***Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is what man’s first sin consisted of. All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness. ***398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. ***Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God”. ***

399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.2 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination. Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man. Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”. Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”, for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.

 

[grannymh]

Hi,

I was asked that question by a friend,

She brought up these two verses. These from the DR:

Sirach 24:33 From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die.

Romans 5:12 Therefore as through one man sin entered into the world and through sin death, and thus death has passed unto all men because all have sinned.

Are the above scriptures contradictory?
What part did Eve play?
What part did Adam play?

So who is truly responsible for sin and death? (and don’t tell me the father of lies)

Thanks

My apology. I am up against a time frame which calls for 42 hours in a day.

Here is the “Adam” context for the Catechism paragraphs cited in post 2. If you have questions, I am sure others will answer and I will try to get back to you later. Please begin with paragraph 355 and continue through paragraph 421. Warning: this is not a page-turner.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/355.htm

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[OneSheep]

Hi,

I was asked that question by a friend,

She brought up these two verses. These from the DR:

Sirach 24:33 From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die.

Romans 5:12 Therefore as through one man sin entered into the world and through sin death, and thus death has passed unto all men because all have sinned.

Are the above scriptures contradictory?
What part did Eve play?
What part did Adam play?

So who is truly responsible for sin and death? (and don’t tell me the father of lies)

Thanks

I look at the creation story as a means of explaining what we can’t understand. The story addresses the fact that we condemn ourselves and each other, we punish ourselves and each other.

Did God decide that all the other creatures die, too, because of Adam’s sin?

I don’t take the Adam and Eve story literally, at all. It is an amazing story that tries to explain the one compulsion not shared by other mammals: our compulsion to punish what we see as wrong.

 

[Phyllo]

The verses are not contradictory. They compliment each other.

God created the Universe for Adam and Eve. St. Augustine reminds us that had Adam and Eve not committed the Original Sin, the Universe would have been filled only with the good and beautiful, no exception. No deformity, no harmful mutations, no disease. None of these things would have existed, except for sin. This is why St. Paul in his letter to the Romans, chapter 8 tells us that the whole universe is groaning in expectation for the revelation of the sons of God; that the entire universe is made subject to a bondage to decay because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

Evil is not a being, thing, substance, or entity. Being is either the Creator or his creature. There is nothing in the visible universe that is intrinsically wicked. Sex, gold, alcohol - all these things are good and therefore are desirable. Sinners look only at the material element of a sin and find it good - as it is. Then, when they have abused its goodness thru disobedience, they turn against God because the effects of this misuse have brought them and society misery. Even Satan was once good. He is a good thing gone bad - in fact, a very good thing gone very bad. If he had not had the greatest ontological goodness of a powerful mind and will, he could never have become as morally corrupt as he is. “Lillies that fester smell far worse than weeds.”

The Catechism of the Catholic Churches with authority on these matters:

II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”. The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father. “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.” In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”

III. ORIGINAL SIN

Freedom put to the test

396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.” The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. ***Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. ***

Man’s first sin

397 ***Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is what man’s first sin consisted of. All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness. ***398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. ***Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God”. ***

399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.2 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination. Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man. Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”. Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”, for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.

Thank you.

I think my friend was referring to the part of the first verse that says because of Eve’s sin we all die whereas in the second verse it says by one man (Adam) sin entered the world.

According to my friends reasoning we do not die because of Eve’s sin but by Adam’s.

She is laying the blame(if that is the right word) solely on Adam because he was the head of the family whereas Eve was deceived and Adam should have know better. She doesn’t think they are equally to blame.

She is not so concerned about the consequences of the sin as much as to who is responsible for it and according to her it is Adam.

I don’t know if I am explaining this properly.

 

[grannymh]

I look at the creation story as a means of explaining what we can’t understand. The story addresses the fact that we condemn ourselves and each other, we punish ourselves and each other.

Did God decide that all the other creatures die, too, because of Adam’s sin?

I don’t take the Adam and Eve story literally, at all. It is an amazing story that tries to explain the one compulsion not shared by other mammals: our compulsion to punish what we see as wrong.

Quickly, may I kindly suggest that proper Catholic teaching can be found in the links in post 3. Please read paragraph 390 three times. Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

Adam is the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)

 

[grannymh]

Thank you.

I think my friend was referring to the part of the first verse that says because of Eve’s sin we all die whereas in the second verse it says by one man (Adam) sin entered the world.

According to my friends reasoning we do not die because of Eve’s sin but by Adam’s.

She is laying the blame(if that is the right word) solely on Adam because he was the head of the family whereas Eve was deceived and Adam should have know better. She doesn’t think they are equally to blame.

She is not so concerned about the consequences of the sin as much as to who is responsible for it and according to her it is Adam.

I don’t know if I am explaining this properly.

 

[grannymh]

Thank you.

I think my friend was referring to the part of the first verse that says because of Eve’s sin we all die whereas in the second verse it says by one man (Adam) sin entered the world.

According to my friends reasoning we do not die because of Eve’s sin but by Adam’s.

She is laying the blame(if that is the right word) solely on Adam because he was the head of the family whereas Eve was deceived and Adam should have know better. She doesn’t think they are equally to blame.

She is not so concerned about the consequences of the sin as much as to who is responsible for it and according to her it is Adam.

I don’t know if I am explaining this properly.

Is there a typo in post one reference to Sirach 24: 33 . In my Bible, Sirach, chapter 24 is in praise of wisdom.

Short reply.
Romans 5: 12-21 (see context) is the Catholic teaching that the first human person Adam is the responsible person who committed Original Sin. Beyond that, Eve can be implicated, but obviously she is not the first human person.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16

 

[edwest2]

I look at the creation story as a means of explaining what we can’t understand. The story addresses the fact that we condemn ourselves and each other, we punish ourselves and each other.

Did God decide that all the other creatures die, too, because of Adam’s sin?

I don’t take the Adam and Eve story literally, at all. It is an amazing story that tries to explain the one compulsion not shared by other mammals: our compulsion to punish what we see as wrong.

Here is what the Church tells us.

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

"It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Source: Catholic Answers Library

Peace,
Ed

 

[Phyllo]

Is there a typo in post one reference to Sirach 24: 33 . In my Bible, Sirach, chapter 24 is in praise of wisdom.

Short reply.
Romans 5: 12-21 (see context) is the Catholic teaching that the first human person Adam is the responsible person who committed Original Sin. Beyond that, Eve can be implicated, but obviously she is not the first human person.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16

Yeah–It should have been Sirach 25:33

Her objection is that the verse says that—by her(Eve)we all die. She says no that it is Adam. I agree with her there.
She does’t think Sirach 25:33 is a right verse.
She doesn’t accept the explanation that Eve started the ball rolling when she offered the
“apple” to Adam. Adam, as the head of the family,new better so he is the sole culprit.
I don’t think that any explanation will please her.

 

[TimothyH]

“Man” in Romans 5:12 means humanity, mankind, the generic “Man”, a person. It does not mean male.

Eve sinned by eating the fruit, but Adam stood by and let it happen. Adam did nothing to stop it. He did not defend Eve against the tempter, nor did he try to talk Eve out of it. He just stood there and let sin enter the world without lifting a finger to stop it.

Both Adam and Eve bear guilt.

-Tim-

 

[grannymh]

“Man” in Romans 5:12 means humanity, mankind, the generic “Man”, a person. It does not mean male.

Eve sinned by eating the fruit, but Adam stood by and let it happen. Adam did nothing to stop it. He did not defend Eve against the tempter, nor did he try to talk Eve out of it. He just stood there and let sin enter the world without lifting a finger to stop it.

Both Adam and Eve bear guilt.

-Tim-

If one read the context…
If one went by Catholic doctrines…
If one understood that there are many personal sins, but only one Original Sin…

 

[grannymh]

Yeah–It should have been Sirach 25:33

Her objection is that the verse says that—by her(Eve)we all die. She says no that it is Adam. I agree with her there.
She does’t think Sirach 25:33 is a right verse.
She doesn’t accept the explanation that Eve started the ball rolling when she offered the
“apple” to Adam. Adam, as the head of the family,new better so he is the sole culprit.
I don’t think that any explanation will please her.

I found the reference. It is Sirach 25: 12 - 25.

Check out the footnote for verse 23. It differentiates between the personal sin of Eve and the Original Sin of Adam. There is no conflict with Catholic teaching since clearly Adam, as head of the human race, is the only person capable of Original Sin.

Verse 23 reads: In woman was sin’s beginning… This “beginning” was when Eve disobeyed God’s command. Adam did the deal breaker.

 

[Phyllo]

I found the reference. It is Sirach 25: 12 - 25.

Check out the footnote for verse 23. It differentiates between the personal sin of Eve and the Original Sin of Adam. There is no conflict with Catholic teaching since clearly Adam, as head of the human race, is the only person capable of Original Sin.

Verse 23 reads: In woman was sin’s beginning… This “beginning” was when Eve disobeyed God’s command. Adam did the deal breaker.

It seems we are both making typos

It is verse 33 from the woman came the beginning…
.
Ver. 23. Woman. Greek, “enemy.” (Calmet) — Revenge is the passion of little souls, and of women. (Juvenal xiii.) — Dragon. This is not exaggerated, if we reflect on the evils occasioned by Eve, Dalila, Athalia, &c. (Calmet) — “A woman is the greatest wild-beast.” (Menander)
the above footnote for verse 23 from the Haydock

I looked up in the Strongs the word for woman in both the Greek and the Hebrew and didn’t find the word enemy. This commentary doesn’t make too much sense to me. Unless I am missing something.

 

[Phyllo]

I found the reference. It is Sirach 25: 12 - 25.

Check out the footnote for verse 23. It differentiates between the personal sin of Eve and the Original Sin of Adam. There is no conflict with Catholic teaching since clearly Adam, as head of the human race, is the only person capable of Original Sin.

Verse 23 reads: In woman was sin’s beginning… This “beginning” was when Eve disobeyed God’s command. Adam did the deal breaker.

I tried that but it didn’t satisfy her. I don’t think anything will.

 

[grannymh]

I tried that but it didn’t satisfy her. I don’t think anything will.

You are probably right. However, I will close with the thought that there must be different numbering systems for Sirach. I am using the Saint Joseph Edition, The New American Bible. It looks like this Bible dates to 1986.

 

[Phyllo]

You are probably right. However, I will close with the thought that there must be different numbering systems for Sirach. I am using the Saint Joseph Edition, The New American Bible. It looks like this Bible dates to 1986.

I was using the DR. I got out my St. Josephs NAB and found the foot note you were talking about. I will show it to her the next time I see her. This is a good foot note.

You can’t make heads or tails of the numbering system in the JB for Sirach.

I have a bunch of bibles for just this purpose, to compare but for some reason I didn’t get this one out. It is my least favorite.

 

[nordskoven]

“The Sin of Adam.” Adam had what King David had, corporate authority to bring universal destruction by his corporate headship. David authorized the God-forbidden census. The people were all punished for his choice. Adam was given, before the Woman’s creation, a divine grant of power and authority as steward of all life. The Woman was the means for Adam being presented with Satan’s lie as having succumbed to the first lie on Earth. When the Woman ate of the forbidden fruit, sin and death did not come into the world. When Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, sin and death came into the world. I do take Genesis literally, and agree with Arthur Custance and his scientific bent preserved in his “Doorway Papers” available online:
custance.org/

I think something literally broke, and that’s why “Scientific Adam” and his genetics are later than “MtDNA Eve” so, can’t say for certain, but maybe that chopped
Y chromosome issue had a forbidden fruit catalyst. Literal Genesis is perfectly consonant with literal science. That possible genetic sin–and don’t forget “sin” refers to science-y medical affronts, like the Mosaic “sin” of eating animals that are found dead–obtained death for all. My buddy and his hound dog just found a freshly-dead deer and examining it, saw that it had tumors, so that’s why I make mention of this no-no.

Noah & Family was saved because he alone preserved his “generation,” pointing to another possible genetic flub that would have doomed all mankind if left to continue. God flushed the Petri dish; and Christ said He would return and shorten the tribulation so that we don’t erase ourselves. Christ conquered death, and gave us salvation from the “second death” of damnation for all eternity at our choice. The Eucharist and eternal life are all consonant with modern physics. Me likey. We forget that modern science had its genesis in Judeo-Christianity back-engineering a cogent, loving, provident Creator. Have we not seen the “greater miracles than these” Christ prophesied for us? To God be the honor and glory.

Adam tried to blame God’s gift, the Woman, for his betrayal of the divine power and authority vested in him. God’s response was to ask the Woman what happened, and she said she was lied to. At this witness of the Woman alone, foreshadowing Mary Magdalen and the women with her who gave witness to Christ’s resurrection, God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. This is God’s divine grant of power and authority to all women and children as fulfilled in the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ and applying to all women and children who are God’s elect. It sure surprised Satan who thought he’d doomed us all, clever devil. God didn’t erase Adam’s power and authority but offered salvation; and God opened up the forensics, gave legal power and authority to the Woman & Seed to go to war and uphold “life and blessing.” So the words inaugurating the fulfillment spoken by the Archangel Gabriel to she who is “Full of Grace” assault his entire being at each recital.

Adam had a singular grant of divine power and authority he betrayed, bringing sin and death into the world; one which males-only can atone for in the priesthood as this grant was given before Woman was even created. This priesthood is fulfilled in Jesus Christ our High Priest according to the Order of Melchizedek. And all women and children have a separate yet harmoniously entwined grant of divine power and authority to crush Satan’s head, warring against the Father of Lies and Murder and his minions. So Christ acted under both the Adamic mandate and Woman & Seed mandate: priestly atonement for the Sin of Adam; and as conquering Seed, the collective Genesis 3:15 “seed” term nicely defining Christ and the Body of Christ. Thanks, God.

 

[Phyllo]

“The Sin of Adam.” Adam had what King David had, corporate authority to bring universal destruction by his corporate headship. David authorized the God-forbidden census. The people were all punished for his choice. Adam was given, before the Woman’s creation, a divine grant of power and authority as steward of all life. The Woman was the means for Adam being presented with Satan’s lie as having succumbed to the first lie on Earth. When the Woman ate of the forbidden fruit, sin and death did not come into the world. When Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, sin and death came into the world. I do take Genesis literally, and agree with Arthur Custance and his scientific bent preserved in his “Doorway Papers” available online:
custance.org/

I think something literally broke, and that’s why “Scientific Adam” and his genetics are later than “MtDNA Eve” so, can’t say for certain, but maybe that chopped
Y chromosome issue had a forbidden fruit catalyst. Literal Genesis is perfectly consonant with literal science. That possible genetic sin–and don’t forget “sin” refers to science-y medical affronts, like the Mosaic “sin” of eating animals that are found dead–obtained death for all. My buddy and his hound dog just found a freshly-dead deer and examining it, saw that it had tumors, so that’s why I make mention of this no-no.

Noah & Family was saved because he alone preserved his “generation,” pointing to another possible genetic flub that would have doomed all mankind if left to continue. God flushed the Petri dish; and Christ said He would return and shorten the tribulation so that we don’t erase ourselves. Christ conquered death, and gave us salvation from the “second death” of damnation for all eternity at our choice. The Eucharist and eternal life are all consonant with modern physics. Me likey. We forget that modern science had its genesis in Judeo-Christianity back-engineering a cogent, loving, provident Creator. Have we not seen the “greater miracles than these” Christ prophesied for us? To God be the honor and glory.

Adam tried to blame God’s gift, the Woman, for his betrayal of the divine power and authority vested in him. God’s response was to ask the Woman what happened, and she said she was lied to. At this witness of the Woman alone, foreshadowing Mary Magdalen and the women with her who gave witness to Christ’s resurrection, God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. This is God’s divine grant of power and authority to all women and children as fulfilled in the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ and applying to all women and children who are God’s elect. It sure surprised Satan who thought he’d doomed us all, clever devil. God didn’t erase Adam’s power and authority but offered salvation; and God opened up the forensics, gave legal power and authority to the Woman & Seed to go to war and uphold “life and blessing.” So the words inaugurating the fulfillment spoken by the Archangel Gabriel to she who is “Full of Grace” assault his entire being at each recital.

Adam had a singular grant of divine power and authority he betrayed, bringing sin and death into the world; one which males-only can atone for in the priesthood as this grant was given before Woman was even created. This priesthood is fulfilled in Jesus Christ our High Priest according to the Order of Melchizedek. And all women and children have a separate yet harmoniously entwined grant of divine power and authority to crush Satan’s head, warring against the Father of Lies and Murder and his minions. So Christ acted under both the Adamic mandate and Woman & Seed mandate: priestly atonement for the Sin of Adam; and as conquering Seed, the collective Genesis 3:15 “seed” term nicely defining Christ and the Body of Christ. Thanks, God.

This is good. Thank you and thanks for the site.

Jesus better hurry and come again before we abort and contracept ourselves into extinction.

 

[nordskoven]

GrannyMH hit the nail on the head. There still was and is personal sin and its consequences apart from a leader’s corporate sin, here the “Sin of Adam” as the New Testament calls the betrayal of Adam’s office of CEO of Planet Earth. God explaining the consequences of personal sin entailed no curse as is commonly suggested. Can’t break those laws of nature and not suffer consequences.

Woman was told of the consequence of her personal sin: pain bearing children. Man was told of the consequence of his personal sin: thorns and thistles when tilling the ground in the sweat of his brow. Tilling does change the soil pH radically–only after the “Sin of Adam”?–and fosters noxious weeds. The ground was cursed, Satan was cursed, but not Adam and not the Woman. Sin and death came into the world as a result of Adam’s corporate sin; but personal sin still held consequences.

Then God drew “first blood” and killed an animal to clothe them with the skin, the first redemptive opportunity through culpability for blood shed being taken up by God Himself. Then Cain acted priestly and offered God a sacrifice from the cursed Earth. No good. Abel’s priestly atonement offered God an animal sacrifice, showing he “got it.” Good. Then Abel killed him. No good. Then God marked Cain so nobody would kill him. Good. Redemption 101.