Adam's sin was God's fault?

[qctheology]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

 

[pianistclare]

What’s your definition of “free will”?
Free will means Adam was able to choose. If God created him only to make certain choices, then there’s no free will.

 

[captainrick]

Perhaps, but not if we don’t accept everything in Genesis as literally accurate.

 

[1ke]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

you assume there were two possible Adams. There were not. There was only Adam.

 

[grannymh]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

Some questions to ponder. What was the purpose or goal of the original Adam? What was the relationship between God and Adam? What was the actual Original Sin freely chosen by Adam? In my humble opinion, the answers (even good guesses) would demonstrate that Adam’s sin was not God’s fault.

 

[Mystophilus]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

Regarding #4-#5, if God chooses the type of individual to create, knowing that type X will perform the act and type Y will not, then it is not the individual who chooses, but God, and so neither individual has free will.

If God is omnipotent and freely involved in the world, then God is responsible not merely for Adam’s transgression, but for everything.

At that point, it might be worth revisiting #1, and determining whether God really could do absolutely anything, or whether there might be limits, such as creating a being with free will which does not have free will.

 

[dmar198]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

Here’s wishing you well on your journey. I hope you enter the Church.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

First, I think there is a problem with premises 4-5. I don’t think it’s correct that God could have created a free being in such a way that they will always use their free will for good. The thing that immediately comes to mind is the angels: they were created with free will, but I don’t think they were created free in such a way that Satan, for example, would choose evil, and Michael would choose good. Instead, I think they were just created free, and they chose from there. If God makes you free, I don’t think He can create you free in such a way that you only choose good without creating a contradiction.

Second, and this is probably a smaller issue, is that your conclusion uses a key term, fault, which does not appear anywhere in the premises. I also don’t see a synonym in the premises. The word “sin” can sometimes be a synonym for fault, but in this case I don’t think it is, because the two terms seem to be distinguished clearly enough in the conclusion. Thus your syllogism does not follow.

Third, I think it is possible for God to create a being, knowing he will do evil, without being responsible in any way for it. Because God did not create him to do evil. Every parent creates their child knowing that they will do evil, but they don’t become responsible because of it. I am only responsible for what I do and for what I cause other people to do. Even in your scenario, God did not cause Adam to sin.

Fourth, and this may be very critical – my understanding of moral theology is that it includes this principle: it is not against the moral law to tolerate a moral evil in order to secure a greater good. Note well: it is against the moral law to Cause a moral evil in order to secure a greater good. But toleration of evil is something less than causing it. A king, for example, does not try to prosecute every possible sin committed in his land. He legitimately tolerates certain evils, such as the presence of false religions in his kingdom, in order to permit a greater good, such as respect for conscience. But he must not promote false religions.

Re: God, He may have created Adam in the knowledge that he would do evil because God knew that this would secure a greater good than the Fall, and that greater good is man’s redemption. In the Exultet every Easter we remember that Adam’s fault was a “happy fault, which gained for us so great a redeemer.” This, I think, is what St. Paul means when he says, “For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.” Romans 11:32

Let me know if any of that helps.

 

[fhansen]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

Do you believe that human beings, having arrived at the age of reason and possessing sound minds, are morally responsible, that they can choose to do evil, or refrain from doing evil? If so then you agree that humans have free will, making God only indirectly the cause of evil while still not willing that evil in any way. God made man a free moral agent, with the ability to oppose His will.

 

[Good_Fella]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

God purposefully created Adam with a free will, to choose between obeying and disobeying His commands. If God had created either Adam X - who would not use his free will to sin - or Adam Y - who would use his free will to sin - then neither of them could have had a free will to begin with. It was not God’s will that He either create someone who couldn’t sin or someone who would necessarily sin. Adam chose to sin by his own free will, and so he alone is accountable. True, when God created Adam, He knew that he would mortally sin by his own free will, but it wasn’t because God willed that he should sin. God permitted sin - that which is hateful to Him - to be committed in order for us to show how much we truly love Him by the exercise of our free will. Without human free will there can be no sin and moral responsibility on our part. God would be the one to blame for Adam’s sin only if He had created Adam to sin beyond the power of his will. It is because God wills that we should not sin that He has given us all sufficient grace: the ability to choose not to sin. If I happened to notice an elderly woman with a cane standing in front of me in a crowded bus with all the seats having been taken, I would know or at least safely assume that she would accept my seat if I offered it to her. But whether she accepted my considerate offer would be up to her. What I could fallibly foresee in view of two possible outcomes (the acceptance or rejection of my offer) would not have determined the woman’s choice. If she happened to reject my offer and consequently fell and injured herself, I wouldn’t be at fault. But I would feel guilty and ashamed of myself if I hadn’t offered her my seat before she fell. Adam fell from grace because he chose to reject God’s offer of Himself out of pride and an inordinate self-love.

PAX
:heaven:

 

[steve_b]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge
2. God created Adam
3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be
4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin
5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin
6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X
7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

Did God give Adam a choice not to do something **or **a severe consequence would follow? Yes

Was Adam free to say yes or no to temptation? Yes

Did God knowing all things, force Adam to disobey? No.
g:

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

Testing man is not for God’s knowledge. It’s for man’s knowledge about himself. Anymore than a quiz or final exam a professor gives to the class is for his knowledge. He already knows the answers to the questions he gives. Did the professor, cause anyone to pass or fail his test?

 

[fhansen]

I am a monotheist trying to make the jump back to Christianity, but this is one of a few questions that are preventing me from doing so.

1. There is nothing outside of God’s power or knowledge 2. God created Adam 3. There were an infinite number of ways He could have made Adam, for each way He knew what the outcome would be 4. He could have created Adam X, who would not use his free will to sin 5. He could have created Adam Y, who would use his free will to sin 6. God purposefully chose to create Adam Y over Adam X 7. Adam’s sin was God’s fault

It just seems illogical to me to claim that God bears no responsibility for sin or the fall of man give that He had the power and the foreknowledge to create a sinless Adam that would’ve had the exact same free will as the sinful Adam.

This paragraph from the Catechism is relevant:
**
600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.
**