Adding sense to Christianity

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations,please don’t mind, is but a mythical religion; since the times Paul invented “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” as its backbone creed.

The job of adding sense to all religions has been assigned to the Second Coming 1835-1908 by GodAllahParmesherYHWH. To add sense to Christianity; he has proved from a Word from God, from Quran, from deep study of the NTBible; from historical sources of Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims etc that Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in India.

Here we confine ourselves to prove this from the deep study of the NTBible.

**Second Coming **1835-1908 says:

alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman’s noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided – in a day or two – to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him.

If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life.

Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken. On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews.

According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day. So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours.6

This sixth hour was after twelve o’clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished. Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses.

In addition to all this, there was another heavenly cause, namely, that when Pilate presided at his court, his wife sent word to him not to have anything to do with that righteous person (i.e., not to attempt to punish him with death), for, she said, she had had a dream that night, which had troubled her very much.7 So, this angel, whom the wife of Pilate saw in her dream, would assure us and all fair-minded people, with certainty, that God had never intended that Jesus should die on the Cross.

alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[mark_a]

Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations

The 32,000+ bothers Catholics too, since we are not a denomination. You’ve been on these forums long enough to know that.

What’s the count on Muslim denominations?

Thanks.

 

[paarsurrey]

mark a; 4491046:

The 32,000+ bothers Catholics too, since we are not a denomination. You’ve been on these forums long enough to know that.

What’s the count on Muslim denominations?

Thanks.

Hi

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut in the thread. My emphasis was not on the denominations; though I came to know of the denominations of the Christians in this forum for the first time. In fact every single denomination from the Christian denominations; considers themselves as the truthful Christianity, exclude themselves as a denomination. If anyone has a doubt on this; then one could ask from the JWs- the only true Christians, as they say or one can ask from the Protestants. I may relax it for the Catholics; as my intention is to unite them in One Christendom; my intention is not to divide them, in the least.

My emphasis, excuse me to rephrase it, was on all such religions that base their faith on the tenet “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” invented by Paul at Rome when Jesus was traveling to India with Mary his mother.

We Muslims don’t take pride in having largest number of denominations; that pride may rest with the Christians only, if they like.

We stop at the number of 72 to which the **Traditional Islam **was to divide as prophesized by Muhammad until the advent of **Second Coming **1835-1908.

If one as a Catholic believes that “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross”; Second Coming 1835-1908 addressed him to review his opinion. One can refute him with reasonable, rational and logical arguments.

No compulsion, whatsoever.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Regards

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Hi

Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations,please don’t mind, is but a mythical religion; since the times Paul invented “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” as its backbone creed.

The job of adding sense to all religions has been assigned to the Second Coming 1835-1908 by GodAllahParmesherYHWH. To add sense to Christianity; he has proved from a Word from God, from Quran, from deep study of the NTBible; from historical sources of Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims etc that Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in India.

Here we confine ourselves to prove this from the deep study of the NTBible.

**Second Coming **1835-1908 says:

alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman’s noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided – in a day or two – to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him.

If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life.

Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken. On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews.

According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day. So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours.6

This sixth hour was after twelve o’clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished. Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses.

In addition to all this, there was another heavenly cause, namely, that when Pilate presided at his court, his wife sent word to him not to have anything to do with that righteous person (i.e., not to attempt to punish him with death), for, she said, she had had a dream that night, which had troubled her very much.7 So, this angel, whom the wife of Pilate saw in her dream, would assure us and all fair-minded people, with certainty, that God had never intended that Jesus should die on the Cross.

alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Is this a joke? If so, well done.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

What religion *isn’t *mythological?

Now, even though I’m Catholic, I will gladly accept the theory (or possible Truth) of Christianity being a mere mythology.

Religion is just to calm the fears of mankind.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[paarsurrey]

Now, even though I’m Catholic, I will gladly accept the theory (or possible Truth) of Christianity being a mere mythology.

Hi

Thanks for accepting what is an open “secret”.

Regards

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Hi

Thanks for accepting what is an open “secret”.

Regards

You’re very welcome. Through experience, I must say it’s rather difficult to accept such an open “secret,” but it’s sort of a relief to know that I have the freedom to be a Catholic rather than an obligation.

Ironically Yours.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is this a joke? If so, well done.

Hi

Well you may take it as a joke, if that pleases you.

But it is an opinion, a fact, a reality or perhaps more than that; it is Truth.

It depends on your research and forming your own truthful opinion.

Thanks

 

[Eucharisted]

Hi
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Bold is my emphasis.

Here’s what Jesus says about loving Him (John 15:9-10):

As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally posted by Paarsurrey
Hi
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Eucharisted; 4491490:

Bold is my emphasis.

Here’s what Jesus says about loving Him (John 15:9-10):

As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Hi

But Paul did neither love Jesus nor Mary; he invented the tenet “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” at Rome, when Jesus and Mary were both on their journey to India and the neighboring countries to convey God Allah’s message to the Lost Sheep of Israel who resided there.

I think it showed Paul’s hatred towards Jesus and Mary when Paul ascribed a curse to Jesus in this, one of his most clever moves. Paul, in my opinion, deviated from Jesus’ commandments and misleads others also.

Is it not an obvious betrayal of Paul? In my opinion it is.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[Eucharisted]

Hi

But Paul did neither love Jesus nor Mary; he invented the tenet “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” at Rome, when Jesus and Mary were both on their journey to India and the neighboring countries to convey God Allah’s message to the Lost Sheep of Israel who resided there.

I think it showed Paul’s hatred towards Jesus and Mary when Paul ascribed a curse to Jesus in this, one of his most clever moves. Paul, in my opinion, deviated from Jesus’ commandments and misleads others also.

Is it not an obvious betrayal of Paul? In my opinion it is.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

Making false claims about someone you don’t even know and that you dare to accuse of horrible lies not only shows you don’t love God, but also shows that you are not even worthy of being taken seriously on CAF. So I will take your post as mere pudding and laugh at you.

 

[Kaninchen]

Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews

paarsurrey should not be under any misconception, crucifixion was a Roman form of execution (got it from the Carthaginians, apparently).

 

[notsmart]

" I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna"

Your prophet Mo would be highly offended by this tag line.
He honored Mary very much. Jesus is a prophet to you.
Give me citations where Mo honored Budda or Krishna. Or if they are prophets. Tell us what MO said about Mary.

You have disrespected your false prophet.

He will make you pay.

 

[notsmart]

paarsurrey should not be under any misconception, crucifixion was a Roman form of execution (got it from the Carthaginians, apparently).

We all know that. However, its very likely that your priests got the ball rolling!
But I am glad they did!

 

[notsmart]

Making false claims about someone you don’t even know and that you dare to accuse of horrible lies not only shows you don’t love God, but also shows that you are not even worthy of being taken seriously on CAF. So I will take your post as mere pudding and laugh at you.

Its not funny that he mocks Mo. Mo had deep respect for Mary, more than non catholic christians do.
For him to say this, goes against Mo.
He must be in a cult.

 

[Kaninchen]

We all know that. However, its very likely that your priests got the ball rolling!
But I am glad they did!

All ‘Harry Potter’ or ‘Lord of The Rings’ to me, I’m afraid, whichever version!

 

[notsmart]

All ‘Harry Potter’ or ‘Lord of The Rings’ to me, I’m afraid, whichever version!

Well, there was a relationship that had to be made for peace to be amoung the people under the rulers. Jews did not have pure freedom to do as they wished. They had to appease the policitcal leaders of the time.
No?
They were carefree?

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, there was a relationship that had to be made for peace to be amoung the people under the rulers. Jews did not have pure freedom to do as they wished. They had to appease the policitcal leaders of the time.
No?
They were carefree?

Perhaps we’re talking at cross-purposes (no pun intended), I meant that the Jesus story, whether that in the NT, or the Muslim version, or the paarsurrey Muslim version) is, to me, a fiction.

 

[paarsurrey]

" I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna"

Your prophet Mo would be highly offended by this tag line.
He honored Mary very much. Jesus is a prophet to you.
Give me citations where Mo honored Budda or Krishna. Or if they are prophets. Tell us what MO said about Mary.

You have disrespected your false prophet.

He will make you pay.

Hi

I think you would love to read a question ( from a Hindu) answer ( from Mirza Tahir Ahmad) in this connection:

Lord Krishna and Jesus Christ
Krishna - `I am the Beginning and the End’

Questioner: My question is about Lord Krishna (as). We Hindus treat Lord Krishna (as) as the creator, the preserver and the destroyer of all beings. As he himself said, ‘of all the creations, I am the beginning and the end and the middle. I am unborn and without beginning. Though I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear every millennium in my original transcendental form.’ My question is, how far does this religious philosophy conform with the philosophy of Islam?

Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad: First of all, I beg to differ with you as far as the interpretation of these lines is concerned. I have been a student of comparative religion. I found that every religion, however idolatrous it may appear to us today, was fundamentally a monotheistic religion because if one does not accept this universal principle then arguments between religions will have no end whatsoever and each religion will be understood to have emanated from a different source, from a different God.

Now, as against the understanding of the Vedas which you have presented to us, you should have remembered also that this is exactly what Jesus Christ (as) said, that I am the Alpha, I am the Omega, and this is not only said by Jesus Christ (as) but also in the Holy Qur’an there is mention of this truth that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (as) is the source and means of people reaching God and when you say Khatemun Nabiyyeen (i.e. the seal of all the Prophets') then it can be understood as Omega. But in another Hadith’ (tradition of the Holy Prophet (saw)) he claims himself to be the very first, the Alpha and according to all the Muslim sects together, in view of some Qur’anic verses and declarations of the Holy Prophet (saw), he was the first to be born.

Now, the question here is that there are some translations made by yourself or somebody else, which indicate that Krishna (as) claimed that he was never born, that he is eternal. I have read the Bhagawat Geeta myself with deep attention and I have discovered only evidence of the truth and unity of God, and Krishna (as) himself only claimed to be a Messenger, no more.

For instance, his being called `murli dhar’ (flute player). Apparently, the flute is singing the song or creating the music but there is breath behind it. Then he has more hands than ordinary people and he has a body, a well defined body, but instead of two hands he has four hands and he is also known to have possessed wings. Now, what do these symbols, or if they are not symbols, the literal facts indicate, that is the question!

As you said, he gave us the glad tiding that every one thousand years `I will reappear in my original form’. Is this the original form of God? Is this the space of human stature, with four arms, he can be confined and then disappear somewhere and then begin to rule from there. This is a very, very limited understanding of the nature of God which he has created. How could Lord Krishna (as) say that? There has to be some misunderstanding of his message or misinterpretation of his words.

Such misunderstandings do appear in every religion because of the specific religious terminology. Take, for instance, the use of the word wings'. The Holy Qur'an also uses the word wings’ in relation to angels. But the Holy Qur’an makes it specifically clear that these are not the wings' used to fly with, only that the wings’ are indicative of attributes. So, if there are `two arms’, the attributes are half the number possessed by a person who has four arms.

The angels grew in attributes and in this world, according to the Holy Qur’an, they have four wings. But in the hereafter they will have eight ‘wings’ and these are all metaphorical terms and figures, let’s say. For instance, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) himself is told to lower his ‘wing’ of mercy over those who believe him. Then the people are told to lower their ‘wings’ over their parents. So these usages of the same word ‘wing’ elsewhere in the Qur’an makes it very clear to us that they are just terms which have been misunderstood and misapplied.

In short, according to the Ahmadiyya belief, Hadhrat Krishna (as) was a holy Messenger of Allah. He used a language of symbols to convey to the world of that time some truths and if you read the Bhagawat Geeta in detail, it is not just an account of war between two factions. It is, in reality, a masterpiece of description of goodness pitched against evil, or evil pitched against goodness. A battle between darkness and light.

Now, turn to Zoroastrianism, what Zoroaster says is again the same thing in different terms. He speaks of fire against darkness, and makes fire the symbol of truth which is God and darkness a symbol of falsehood which is the devil. One finds similar symbolic statements in the Bible and in the Holy Qur’an, but there they do not mean that evil had a separate entity in itself and emanated from a God who was independent of the God of goodness.

So, these are symbolic terms and the use of similar terminology is found in every religion. It is our duty not to be confused by them but to come to a reasonable, sensible understanding whereby we could reconcile the world religions as have emanated from the same single source that is God.

 

[paarsurrey]

continued from the previous post

Mirza Tahir Ahmad- a grandson of Second Coming 1835-1908 continues to say:

I hope this will be sufficient as I don’t think it will be very profitable to go much further into a debate on this issue.

Jesus - ‘I am the Way, the Truth and the Light’
Questioner: I am engaged in private Catholic Evengalisation. As Jesus (as) was dying on the cross he said, ‘Father, forgive them for they know not what they do’. My question is, Jesus (as) said, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the light - nobody can come to the Father except through me’. Any comment, please?

Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad: I have already answered this question in answer to the question raised here by our Hindu friend when he spoke of Krishna (as) having made the same claim, long before Jesus (as) mind you, I have read the fundamental books of all major religions and I find reference to exactly the same thing in so many statements of either the prophets or the divine scriptures.

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) has made exactly the same claim. So, you must remember that it is a time related claim. It has to be made by every Prophet because if a Prophet says, ‘I am not the way’, then he is denying himself. He is rejecting the necessity of the people to find God through him. Hence, in Islamic terminology, in the Holy Qur’an, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) is mentioned as Waseela, the ‘doorway’ to God. I have read that so many times. I love reading the Bible as well but because I have studied other religions (and read their books) I can immediately find similarities between the style of expression.

But this only means that in relation to God, a Prophet becomes himself an eternal truth because if he speaks the language of God and God alone then he also becomes eternal, not in person, not in relation to his human form, but in relation to his views and ideas and ideology. So, if a person belongs to an eternal God, he must have some features of that eternal God or aspects of his character transferred to himself, otherwise the claim of such a person that he is in communion with God, or that he belongs to him, would be falsified if he cannot show any signs.

So these are the fundamental signs which are shown by all the major Prophets of the world that they have become identified with an eternal Super Being and in them you find the ‘Alpha’ and the ‘Omega’ and the ‘door’. I hope this will be sufficient for you to understand our viewpoint on this issue.

alislam.org/library/links/00000158.html

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks