Adding sense to Christianity

[Quenby]

Hi all, well… its a Christianity or any other religion is always a very vast and serious topic to be discussed. I don’t think I am very much mature to comment over this, just want to say that this thread is quite interesting.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Thanks for your interest in the thread. You are welcome here to express anything in your mind.

Regards

 

[Lujack]

All I can say is that I’m absolutely and totally lost.

 

[Matariel]

Hi

Please don’t mind. As soon as you depart from Quran, your mythical line starts. Sun is not creator of light and heat. God Allah has created the sun;and set the system that it emanates light and heat.

You don’t understand; it was an example.

God is not father of sun, light and heat; nor can Son stop sun to emanate light and heat;

It was an example.

…as there has been no son except mythical . You may become more mythical; why to stop with one son, there could be many sons and daughters if you are mythical to start with.

No, God revealed Himself as Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If it was mythical, then why do we see mentionings of “the Lord reigned down fire from the Lord in Heaven” and other statements that imply Trinity, and also God referring to Himself in the plural?

Jesus Christ even stated his Godhood, and they crucified Him for that, although that’s what he had planned anyway to redeem mankind.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Tsk, tsk, B&B. I would have hoped you’d be more secure than that; however, testing one’s faith is a sign of maturity, and can lead to further acceptance of the Truth. That’s why I left the confusion of Protestantism, jumped to Anglicanism, and finally came home to Christ’s Catholic Church on earth, founded by Him.

Just… have faith, B&B.

For arguement’s sake, you can aceept a “mythology” view of Christianity, but no religion is as logically of philosophically sound as Catholic Christianity. This is why the Church as spawned so many great thinkers and philosphers, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Pascal, etc.

To me (and believe me, I’ve looked at all kinds of religions in my years of confusion) Catholic Christianity is the summit of humanity’s conquest to have union with God.

Hope this helps.

Listen. I love my Catholic roots-- love them to Death! And even though I do believe in The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit, I know there is more to them. In order for me to really appreciate and know them more is to be more open minded to fellow mythologies.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear brother,

Perhaps you can tell me why in Quran, Isa is called Kalimathullah, but not the others, including Muhammad and your ProphetMessenger.

Hi

Thank you for your question. First the Verses:

[4:167] But Allah bears witness by means of the revelation which He has sent down to thee, that He has sent it down full of His knowledge, and the angels also bear witness; and sufficient is Allah as a Witness.
[4:168] Those who disbelieve and hinder others from the way of Allah, have certainly strayed far away.
[4:169] Surely, those who have disbelieved and have acted unjustly, Allah will not forgive them, nor will He show them any way.
[4:170] Except the way of Hell, wherein they shall abide for a long, long period. And that is easy for Allah.
[4:171] O mankind! the Messenger has indeed come to you with truth from your Lord; believe therefore, it will be better for you. But if you disbelieve, verily, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and in the earth. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
**[4:172] O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian. **
[4:173] Surely, the Messiah disdains not to be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoso disdains to worship Him and is proud, He will gather them all to Himself.
[4:174] Then as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full and will give them more out of His grace; but as for those who disdain and are proud, He will punish them with a painful punishment. And they shall find for themselves beside Allah no friend, nor helper.
[4:175] O ye people, manifest proof has indeed come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear Light.
[4:176] Then, as for those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him, He will surely admit them to His mercy and grace and will guide them along a straight path leading to Himself.

alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=4&verse=166

One should read the verses first; then one should come up with what is the difficulty in understanding them.

One should not mix up with the thoughts in one’s mind; as then one cannot understand what is written there. One should remain focussed with the text.

Thanks

 

[Matariel]

Listen. I love my Catholic roots-- love them to Death! And even though I do believe in The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit, I know there is more to them. In order for me to really appreciate and know them more is to be more open minded to fellow mythologies.

You’re right, B&B. I think it’s wonderful that the Holy Catholic Church is the only substantial religion which, although it is the culmination of Truth, ackowledges that their a bits and pieces of truth in other religions.

I myself appreciate the Church from a Llullist (as per Bl. Raymond Llull) perspective, and I think Llullist Catholic Cabala (or even Jewish Kaballah, for that matter, as they are extremely similar) is also the best way to understand the Genesis story. Not in a literal way, not in a figurative way, but in a mystical way.

Oh, yeah, and I agree, that while the doctrine of the most Holy Trinity is competely true and essential, there is more to God than a tripartite formula, like you said. God, in Catholic thought, especially Catholic mysticism, is Ineffable Light, and totally incomprehensible.

May the Holy Trinity bless you on your spiritual journey, B&B.

 

[notsmart]

Hi

The platform I put them all is a platform of love, reason, truth, serving God Allah, serving humanity, doing good deeds. Is it not a good platform to put them all together?

Jesus had a role to play in the world; which you can only understand if you know the full account of his life. I don’t blame you, it is not your fault; you insist basing your faith on not even on half, may be it is less than 1/3 of his life account. So, you cannot understand the role he is to paly in the current scenario of world revealed religions.

If you lend your unbiased heart and mind; may be you understand it.

We need love and reason to prevail in this world for peace.

Thanks

Give me a quote of what Muhhamed said about Mary.
Any quote, or all quotes.
Then, provide me the same for Krishna and Buhdda.

If you can not, or will not I ask you to be a more faithful muslim, and stop disobeying your prophet.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi Swariffin!

As you requested I have written a post on Jesus being a Word; post #46 . I have also started a thread by taking words (emboldened by me) from Quran in the following verse where Jesus has been mentioned as Word. This is if you have not noticed the thread.

[4:172] O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

Thanks

 

[Matariel]

Hi Swariffin!

As you requested I have written a post on Jesus being a Word…

Jesus is not a word, He is* the *Word of God (or Wisdom of God, or Reason of God).

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

You are welcome to express your opinion, even if it is against me. Together we learn.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi Swariffin!

As you requested I have written a post on Jesus being a Word; post #46 . I have also started a thread by taking words (emboldened by me) from Quran in the following verse where Jesus has been mentioned as Word. This is if you have not noticed the thread.

[4:172] O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

Thanks

Dear Paar,

You forget to quote the passage that Jesus is Kalimathullah. If Quran said Jesus is Kalimathullah and in this passage Quran said that Jesus is only a Messenger of Allah, then Quran says that God is inconsistent.

 

[Matariel]

Hi

You are welcome to express your opinion, even if it is against me. Together we learn.

Thanks

Okay, I merely wanted to correct a misconception.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey
Hi Swariffin!

As you requested I have written a post on Jesus being a Word; post **#46 **. I have also started a new thread by taking words (emboldened by me) from Quran in the following verse where Jesus has been mentioned as Word. This is if you have not noticed the thread.

[4:172] O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of **His word **which He has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

Thanks

Dear Paar,

You forget to quote the passage that Jesus is Kalimathullah. If Quran said Jesus is Kalimathullah and in this passage Quran said that Jesus is only a Messenger of Allah, then Quran says that God is inconsistent.

Hi swariffin!

No, I did not forget.

This is the very verse in Quran where Jesus has been described as “His word” in Quran.

If you think there is some other verse in Quran; you are welcome to quote it or anybody else here from the Catholic friends or from others. We will also discuss that one. Please

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi swariffin!

No, I did not forget.

This is the very verse in Quran where Jesus has been described as “His word” in Quran.

If you think there is some other verse in Quran; you are welcome to quote it or anybody else here from the Catholic friends or from others. We will also discuss that one. Please

Thanks

Merely saying “His Word” and actually saying “Kalimathullah” is widely different, my dear brother. You are negating the meaning of “Kalimathullah” while it is expressedly written. By your own standard, you are destroying the actual meaning of Kalimathullah.

 

[notsmart]

Merely saying “His Word” and actually saying “Kalimathullah” is widely different, my dear brother. You are negating the meaning of “Kalimathullah” while it is expressedly written. By your own standard, you are destroying the actual meaning of Kalimathullah.

Lets stop playing patty cake.

He is the I AM.

Tiptoe around that all you wish.

 

[Matariel]

Lets stop playing patty cake.

He is the I AM.

Tiptoe around that all you wish.

Yeah, I know, right? He claimed deity several times.

 

[notsmart]

Yeah, I know, right? He claimed deity several times.

Thank God he finally stopped putting Jesus and Mary on par with Buhdda and Krishna in the last few posts.

Jesus was fortold in the Hebrew Scriptures. Muhhamed was not.

They have nothing to offer in the way of spirituality as I noted above.

They are fractioned and split apart in doctrine, and beliefs.

They show no unifyed front for Muhhamed’s vision.

They will say christians are also broken apart, split on doctrine and beliefs…

This is a good question for them, and all christians to think about.

Why did Islam end up this way?

 

[paarsurrey]

Merely saying “His Word” and actually saying “Kalimathullah” is widely different, my dear brother. You are negating the meaning of “Kalimathullah” while it is expressedly written. By your own standard, you are destroying the actual meaning of Kalimathullah.

Hi

You might have heard it wrong. It is clear that you never read it in Quran yourelf; so the ball is in your court to provide a reference. If you provide a reference then we could discuss that. You may take help from Eucharisted or InJesus; I don’t mind.

You shall have to come forward and read Quran yourself, like I have read OTBible and NTBible from cover to cover both the Catholic and Protestant version. One has to make an effort to learn.

Together we learn.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[Matariel]

Thank God he finally stopped putting Jesus and Mary on par with Buhdda and Krishna in the last few posts.

I think it would be better for him to refer to Rama, 'cause he is a historical figure. Krishna is the deity who incarnated Rama. But, what gives…

They are fractioned and split apart in doctrine, and beliefs.

They show no unifyed front for Muhhamed’s vision.

They will say christians are also broken apart, split on doctrine and beliefs…

This is a good question for them, and all christians to think about.

Not Catholic Christians though! We’re unified. It’s one of the four marks of the True Church.