Additives allowed?: On Eucharist bread ingredients

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Hello,

The church at my school has a recipe for Eucharist bread which includes, among other things, honey, sugar, and buttermilk or vinegar. I’ve read in Redemptionis Sacramentum that adding such substances is a “grave abuse”. However, the church claims that this recipe was re-approved by the Congregation for Divine Worship in the summer of 2004. I have not yet confronted the church’s leadership about this topic, in case they are telling the truth. I do not want to accuse anybody of lying; however, what they claim appears to plainly contradict Redemptionis Sacramentum.

My question, then, is this: Has anyone heard of the Vatican recently approving of bread recipes that disagree with R.S.?
 
In all the posts on all the threads relating to this topic, and in all the other discussions in other arenas, no exception or approved modification has ever been shown. Your intuition seems to be correct. You might want to ask for documentation of the approval for this exception. Don’t be too surprised, however, if it isn’t forthcoming. After all, if an exception cannot be made for those with an allergy to gluten, it’s not likely that a sufficient reason exists for the kind of deviation with which you’re dealing.

Hope that helps.
 
There is no approval for any such additions. In fact, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has repeatedly answered that the host must be made from wheat and water only. If, as stated, your parish has a rescript from the Congregation for an alternative recepie, ask to see it. They will not be able to provide it because there is no such rescript.

Deacon Ed
 
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CMUstudent:
Hello,

The church at my school has a recipe for Eucharist bread which includes, among other things, honey, sugar, and buttermilk or vinegar. I’ve read in Redemptionis Sacramentum that adding such substances is a “grave abuse”. However, the church claims that this recipe was re-approved by the Congregation for Divine Worship in the summer of 2004. I have not yet confronted the church’s leadership about this topic, in case they are telling the truth. I do not want to accuse anybody of lying; however, what they claim appears to plainly contradict Redemptionis Sacramentum.

My question, then, is this: Has anyone heard of the Vatican recently approving of bread recipes that disagree with R.S.?
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No such approval exists in the Latin Rite. The people making and using this homemade bread are perpetuating a grave abuse. Give them the facts. If they don’t act, write to your bishop. This is serious…
 
I haven’t heard about any recent reaffirmations. However, it has long been repeated that there are “Vatican approved recipies” along this line.
 
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CMUstudent:
Hello,

The church at my school has a recipe for Eucharist bread which includes, among other things, honey, sugar, and buttermilk or vinegar. I’ve read in Redemptionis Sacramentum that adding such substances is a “grave abuse”. However, the church claims that this recipe was re-approved by the Congregation for Divine Worship in the summer of 2004. I have not yet confronted the church’s leadership about this topic, in case they are telling the truth. I do not want to accuse anybody of lying; however, what they claim appears to plainly contradict Redemptionis Sacramentum.

My question, then, is this: Has anyone heard of the Vatican recently approving of bread recipes that disagree with R.S.?
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Definitely ask to see the “proof”, and even if you get the proof, ask for a copy of it to submit to your bishop, because there is no known instance where this has been approved (though many many places have “said so”).

I fail to see how there is any possibility that this could be done licitly, and in fact, the reason that this is considered “grave abuse” by Redemptionis Sacramentum is because when the ingrediants of the host are altered, there is a serious risk that the matter then becomes invalid matter, which means that there is doubt as to whether or not the communicant is really receiving Our Lord in the Eucharist or just a piece of bread!

This is why this is so very serious, and needs to be looked into immediately. If possible, after notification of the pastor and bishop, Rome (the Congregation for Worship and the Sacraments, prefect Francis Cardinal Arinze) should be alerted. If you do contact Rome, include copies or transcripts of all communication you have had (including this first conversation you are relating where they are telling you they have permission).

And, if the people at your parish try to tell you that Redemptionis Sacramentum “isn’t in effect yet” or some other such nonsense, tell them that the document uses Canon Law as the basis for the instruction that you saw. If they try to tell you Canon Law has no authority, then GET YOUR BISHOP FAST :nope:
Canon Law 924 - “The Most Sacred Eucharistic Sacrifice must be celebrated with bread and wine, with which a small quantity of water is to be mixed. The bread must be made of wheat alone, recently made so that there is no danger of corruption. The wine must be natural wine of the grape and not corrupt.”
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For those readers who have not read Redemptionis *Sacramentum *here is the pertinant section we are referring to:
Redemptionis Sacramentum #48 - “It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament. It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist”
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If you are wondering just why this is such a big deal, why it makes any difference what goes into Communion bread, then please read both

“Bread and Wine” by Fr. Williams Saunders
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0766.html

and the book “Why Matter Matters” by David P. Lang (see osv.com/eucharist/matter.asp)

God bless,

+veritas+
 
If what is consecratedf is clearly wheat bread, then you have no problem. It’s valid matter and a valid consecration.

If the appearance is not that of wheat bread, if it’s overly and obviously sweet or something, then you might have a concern.

The recipe isn’t your problem unless , again the result seems like something other than wheat bread or unless you are the baker.

Absent both of those situations, you have other concerns. You should be concerned about your appreciation and attentiveness at Mass; your prayer life; your family; your generosity to the poor; your job; your car; your garden or hobby; the weather.

Don’t waste your time narcing to the bishop about problems that are not yours; its an aggravation you don’yt need and no one else needs.
 
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roemer:
The recipe isn’t your problem unless , again the result seems like something other than wheat bread or unless you are the baker.

Absent both of those situations, you have other concerns. You should be concerned about your appreciation and attentiveness at Mass; your prayer life; your family; your generosity to the poor; your job; your car; your garden or hobby; the weather.
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Except of course, for the fact that the Eucharist is the “source and summit” of the Catholic, and that all things flow from it, as the re-presentation of the Sacrifice at Calvary.

While all these other things are important, the Eucharist is more important than any of them. Furthermore,
“It is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes” (Redemptionis Sacramentum #12).
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Granted, if the abuse is something that does not affect the validity of the Mass, it may not be prudent to run right away to the bishop. However, the abuse that this person is reporting is not quite on the same level as the priest leaving the sanctuary to shake hands with the people at the Sign of Peace.

If the Eucharist at this Mass is invalid it is, as has been said, considered grave abuse! Even the mere possibility that this is not valid matter is warrant to investigate further – if there is even a possibility that there is a woman in a burning building, would you not call the fire department immediately?

And, particularly with issues of grave importance, the bishop is always to be available to be questioned and alerted.
“Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity” (Redemptionis Sacramentum #184.)
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+veritas+
 
The recipe isn’t your problem unless , again the result seems like something other than wheat bread or unless you are the baker.
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I do feel that this, to some extent, is my problem.

I have not yet attended this church at my school. After learning about its abuses from many friends who have attended, I’ve chosen rather to attend near my home. But I know there are many Catholic young people who do attend at the school parish, and I feel that I have some sort of responsibility for them. Many of the young people believe that ‘they do some things differently there, but it’s still the same thing’.

If there’s a chance that it isn’t the same thing, something should be done about it. I’m not the baker of the bread (that’s left up to parishioners), but I do care about the souls of the young Catholics who attend the church.
 
You might "feel " its your problem, but it’s not.

The grace of the Mass is not proportional to the scrupliosity of the celebrants. There is infinite grace for you and all the participants in a validly celebrated Mass, no matter how many abuses there are.

If there is abuse, it’s not your fault and concern.
 
The grace of the Mass is not proportional to the scrupliosity of the celebrants.
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The possibility of improper matter means the Eucharist is not valid. That’s why adding honey to the bread is a “grave abuse” according to the Church. It is “grave” because of its grave consequences. It ought to be everyone’s concern. Lumen Gentium provides for Catholics to manifest their opinion. I suggest that they “narc” to the Bishop or to the Pope if needed, as the consequence of ignoring the problem can indeed be grave.

I recommend using this protocol to address this issue within the institutions of the Church:
cuf.org/protocol.htm
 
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roemer:
If there is abuse, it’s not your fault and concern.
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Actually this is more wrong then you can know. It takes three things in order to have a valid Eucharist:
  1. valid matter
  2. valid ordination
  3. valid intent - with the proper words (“This is my body”, “This is my blood”)
If you are missing any of the 3 what you are receiving in communion is just bread and wine, not the body and blood of Christ. If the host is not made of JUST flour and wheat (and yeast if not Latin rite) then you have invalid matter.

According to church doctrine it is not only your right to have a valid Mass, it is your responsability to make sure it is a valid Mass. There are lots of things that can make a Mass illicit, there are only a few things that can make one invalid and improper matter is one of those things.

Yes there are things that might violate RS and the GIRM that are minor but invalid matter is a major one.
 
" …it is your ( ordinary lay person’s ) responsibility to make sure that the Mass is valid"
That is pig-fodder and horse- edding. Nowhere will you see that as church doctrine.
It is not only not church doctrine, it’s ridiculous on its face.
The presumption of validity is very, very strong under normal conditions.
 
roemer said:
" …it is your ( ordinary lay person’s ) responsibility to make sure that the Mass is valid"
That is pig-fodder and horse- edding. Nowhere will you see that as church doctrine.
It is not only not church doctrine, it’s ridiculous on its face.
The presumption of validity is very, very strong under normal conditions.
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By reason of the knowledge, competence, or pre-eminence which they have**, the laity are empowered—indeed sometimes obliged**—to manifest their opinion on those things which pertain to the good of the Church. If the occasion should arise, this should be done through the institutions established by the Church for that purpose, and always with truth, courage, and prudence, and with reverence and charity toward those who, by reason of their office, represent the person of Christ.

–Vatican Council II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, no. 37
 
roemer said:
" …it is your ( ordinary lay person’s ) responsibility to make sure that the Mass is valid"
That is pig-fodder and horse- edding. Nowhere will you see that as church doctrine.
It is not only not church doctrine, it’s ridiculous on its face.
The presumption of validity is very, very strong under normal conditions.
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Aren’t you being charitable today? Have you read any of the documents from the Vatican?
  1. The bread used in the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharistic Sacrifice must be unleavened, purely of wheat, and recently made so that there is no danger of decomposition.123 It follows therefore that bread made from another substance, even if it is grain, or if it is mixed with another substance different from wheat to such an extent that it would not commonly be considered wheat bread, does not constitute valid matter for confecting the Sacrifice and the Eucharistic Sacrament.124 It is a grave abuse to introduce other substances, such as fruit or sugar or honey, into the bread for confecting the Eucharist. Hosts should obviously be made by those who are not only distinguished by their integrity, but also skilled in making them and furnished with suitable tools.125
Code: 
183. In an altogether particular manner, let **everyone** do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. **This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.**

184. **Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff**.[290](http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwrdsac.htm#_ftn290) It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.
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CMUStudent,

Roemer’s advice lacks credibility when compared to the documents of the Church. Please do something about it.
 
If there is abuse, it’s not your fault and concern.
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I agree that its not my fault. Also, I shouldn’t have to be concerned about it. But in this case I think I should and the church says I should.

I’m just trying to decide on the most effective way of bringing up a topic like this to church administrators who, by their actions, don’t appear to care much about the licitness of the Mass.
 
Is it true that there is no such thing as a gluten free host
 
John of Woking:
Is it true that there is no such thing as a gluten free host
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Yes, it is true, but there is such thing as a reduced gluten host. There is a group of Nuns that make a valid host where the amount of wheat in the host is so small it can barely be detected.

For a person that absolutely can not have gluten they are allowed to make special provision with the priest to receive the precious blood even if the rest of the congregation is not.

P.S. I should add, it is possible to make a gluten free host but it would be invalid matter and shouldn’t be used for communion.
 
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