Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

[He_Man]

Making it clear that certain words aren’t acceptable. Just as you don’t use a certain word that begins with n and refers to black people (or d and refers to Italians, or P and refers to the Polish) as a casual insult, you don’t use a certain word that begins with p and refers to a certain part of the female anatomy, or a certain word that begins with f and refers to gay people as an insult.

And just as you don’t complete that someone’s action was “so Irish”, you don’t complain that things are “so gay”.

I don’t understand why it is such a hard issue to say “Treat people kindly; don’t use parts of their identity as an insult.”

And calling the smarter kids geeks is okay though? Or the slow athletes dumb jocks?

Or calling the overweight kids fat?

Why target select language when other language is just as or eve more common?

 

[Lujack]

And calling the smarter kids geeks is okay though? Or the slow athletes dumb jocks?

Or calling the overweight kids fat?

Why target select language when other language is just as or eve more common?

Where did I say that any of that was okay? Addressing one problem does not imply that other problems do not exist.

 

[He_Man]

Where did I say that any of that was okay? Addressing one problem does not imply that other problems do not exist.

Just highlighting that we should address bullying in general. To single out a certain type as aggregious gives it more weight thatn it should have, and in the case of “gay” bullying, could indirectly have the reverse effect of lending support to the lifestyle in question.

It’s like trying to eliminate recism and singling out only anti-black language. It needs to be broader to have any real affect.

 

[DarkLight]

Just highlighting that we should address bullying in general. To single out a certain type as aggregious gives it more weight thatn it should have, and in the case of “gay” bullying, could indirectly have the reverse effect of lending support to the lifestyle in question.

It’s like trying to eliminate recism and singling out only anti-black language. It needs to be broader to have any real affect.

I’m not sure addressing a particularly prominent type needs to have that effect. But in any case…I posted this because what I saw happening was the opposite. Leaders were specifically ignoring certain kinds of bullying because they didn’t want to be seen as “supporting that lifestyle.”

In any case, I also think it points to some very warped ideas about men and women. A guy that respects women and doesn’t want to objectify them is gay? A woman who waits for a guy to treat her with respect is a lesbian? What’s wrong with this picture?

 

[FaithBuild18]

This topic is kind of ridiculous. If you’re straight and jokingly get called gay, and you get your panties in a bunch as a result of it, you have some issues.

What I was expecting to be addressed is that using the term “gay” as an insult offends gay people. Such a claim I tend to dismiss anyways, especially because those who are against the use of “gay” in colloquial speech, at least at my University, are the same kids who run around saying Gd dmn, and the F word and various other obscenities like it’s their job. Words like “gay” are in no way worse than the aforementioned obscenities, and thus I will continue to refuse to agree with their position. That said, I am at least willing to understand and listen to them.

The request in this topic, however, I find absurd. Straight men need to grow up if this seriously ruins their entire day.

 

[LemonAndLime]

This topic is kind of ridiculous. If you’re straight and jokingly get called gay, and you get your panties in a bunch as a result of it, you have some issues.

What I was expecting to be addressed is that using the term “gay” as an insult offends gay people. Such a claim I tend to dismiss anyways, especially because those who are against the use of “gay” in colloquial speech, at least at my University, are the same kids who run around saying Gd dmn, and the F word and various other obscenities like it’s their job. Words like “gay” are in no way worse than the aforementioned obscenities, and thus I will continue to refuse to agree with their position. That said, I am at least willing to understand and listen to them.

The request in this topic, however, I find absurd. Straight men need to grow up if this seriously ruins their entire day.

I agree.

Basically, the question is “How do I recover from being called gay without suggesting gays are alright people?”

 

[Alder]

This topic is kind of ridiculous. If you’re straight and jokingly get called gay, and you get your panties in a bunch as a result of it, you have some issues.

What I was expecting to be addressed is that using the term “gay” as an insult offends gay people. Such a claim I tend to dismiss anyways, especially because those who are against the use of “gay” in colloquial speech, at least at my University, are the same kids who run around saying Gd dmn, and the F word and various other obscenities like it’s their job. Words like “gay” are in no way worse than the aforementioned obscenities, and thus I will continue to refuse to agree with their position. That said, I am at least willing to understand and listen to them.

The request in this topic, however, I find absurd. Straight men need to grow up if this seriously ruins their entire day.

I don’t think anyone here means bullying as being occasionally called a name among friends. We’re (or at least some are) talking about harassment over a long period of time.

 

[Corki]

I don’t think anyone here means bullying as being occasionally called a name among friends. We’re (or at least some are) talking about harassment over a long period of time.

If only that were true. Some of the stats count as “bullied” anyone who has heard the word “gay” used in their presence even once during thier school years.

 

[DarkLight]

I don’t think anyone here means bullying as being occasionally called a name among friends. We’re (or at least some are) talking about harassment over a long period of time.

Just being called a name on occasion is hardly what I was talking about. Though I think this attitude that people should just “shrug off” namecalling is silly, especially when it comes to schools and such. As humans we’re naturally social creatures - we’re built to crave the love and acceptance of our fellow humans. Part of the job of a Christian community, of any sort, should be to develop this in a way that glorifies God through our treatment of those made in His image, rather than tearing each other down. We can do real damage to each other with our words. I think it’s a bigger issue with places like schools because children are not allowed to choose who they spend time with in the same way. As an adult, if I find one group of people around me hurtful, I can choose to go find others to spend my time with. As a child, I did not have that option (even up through college, the options may be highly limited if you’re not in an area that has jobs and are relying on family).

I also think that these social interactions are where we, especially as children, learn what’s expected of us. The young man who gets called “gay” for not wanting to talk about his female classmate’s body - what is he learning about manhood?

 

[melekali]

This is something I’ve been seeing in several communities, both Christian and otherwise. Simply put, it’s usually young people using the stigma of calling someone else “gay” as another form of bullying. Generally it happens between young men, although I’ve seen it with women as well. Frequently the targets are completely heterosexual young adults. My concern is that, even in a Christian environment, the reason these kids are getting called “gay” and worse terms is because they refuse to disrespect women! For example, a lot of the guys were making jokes about how much they’d like to get into one of the study abroad programs so they could “study” foreign women. A male friend of mine objected to how they were talking and got called a f***** for it. This is supposedly a Christian group! A lot of them will use it against women too, as will some of the other women, if she rejects their advances.

I understand beliefs about homosexuality, but this needs to stop. It’s promoting a “Christianized” version of the same objectification of women, wrapped up in talk about homosexuality and men’s and women’s roles. But I feel like every time I talk to someone I get stopped because they don’t want to appear to be supporting homosexuality or something.

So we go to the beginning, Genesis. In the beginning God created all that is. Each time a person is born, that baby is God’s in the sense that God is the ultimate creator or all life. The Church speaks of the parents of a baby as co-creators with God. If this is so, we are required to have respect and love for all people, even those who claim to be attracted to people of the same sex. We are, after all, commanded to love all people. Homosexual actions are sinful actions, but so are heterosexual sinful actions such as infidelity, sex outside marriage, etc. The only difference is heterosexual actions when rightly done in holy matrimony are holy and right since it was God who designed the marital covenant.

For that reason, all people should be taught that all sin is abhorrent to God, but it is not our job to judge and condemn those who sin. We are, in fact, to remove the telephone pole of sin from our own eye so we might see clearly to help our brother or sister with the small splinter in their eye.

 

[andrewstx]

If only that were true. Some of the stats count as “bullied” anyone who has heard the word “gay” used in their presence even once during thier school years.

It was very true in my case. For a year in high school I was harrased and by football players, and one of them was actually stalked by a young man who followed me in the halls. He did not call me gay, he called me much worse not to mention the heavy physical intimidation. Nothing happened in a school where football was king and more was spent on bandages for the team than the entire English department.

All this for the “sin” of being skinny, unathletic and religous.

 

[Corki]

It was very true in my case. For a year in high school I was harrased and by football players, and one of them was actually stalked by a young man who followed me in the halls. He did not call me gay, he called me much worse not to mention the heavy physical intimidation. Nothing happened in a school where football was king and more was spent on bandages for the team than the entire English department.

All this for the “sin” of being skinny, unathletic and religous.

And THAT was actual bullying. To define, as the “anti bullying researchers” do that bullying is to have to “suffer” the horror of hearing the word “gay” used in one’s presence diminishes the real horror of being really bullied.

It’s the same tact used with sexual harrassment. First graders get kicked out of school for holding hands with a girl or trying to kiss her because some school has a policy that defines sexual harrassment that way.

When you hear all these stats thrown around, it helps to remember that the truth is in how the terms are defined rather than the numbers.

 

[andrewstx]

And THAT was actual bullying. To define, as the “anti bullying researchers” do that bullying is to have to “suffer” the horror of hearing the word “gay” used in one’s presence diminishes the real horror of being really bullied.

It’s the same tact used with sexual harrassment. First graders get kicked out of school for holding hands with a girl or trying to kiss her because some school has a policy that defines sexual harrassment that way.

When you hear all these stats thrown around, it helps to remember that the truth is in how the terms are defined rather than the numbers.

Yes but still I may have been releived to be called “gay” instead of what I was really called.

You have to have been there yourself and had the experience personally.

As anyone who has seen the film “The Children’s Hour” the damage can be real and long-lasted.

I think at the time not long after the film was made, “gay” was only used amoung homosexuals themselves. I wasn’t to hear it for years after my stalking and harrasment.

 

[DorthyBlueBird]

Um… I can’t speak to ‘gay’ bullying, though I too was a victim of bullying. I can verify the experience that being bullied for being ‘gay’ often means the perpetrator of that type of bullying has some issues, examined or otherwise, in that area. But other forms are
much more common, and any of them can lead down dark roads for the right people.
In other words, inclination to suicide is already there, for those who desire it, and I
don’t think bullying causes it, but can aggravate a temptation to despair.

Ok, now my comment about bullying in general. I have an unusual datum to offer: the experience of overcoming bullying in a passive way. I tried talking back, I tried ignoring them, and fighting and everything. Nothing worked. However… when I got older,
something interesting happened.

I was bullied quite a lot in school. I was perpetually “the new kid” because I both moved around a lot, and I being mildly autistic/learning disabled, (atypical affect, whatever you want to call it)so I did not blend in well.

Due to the results of a compulsory art contest in my class, the art teacher had me
repaint the school mascot painting in the auditorium and basketball court. Our school was
the dominant player in the basketball scene, and college recruiters routinely showed up even though we were otherwise a mediocre ‘inner city’ school. I was terrified. I didn’t sleep for the whole weekend. I was sure that the basketball team would kill me, even if I did a good job.

Once I got into the project, time vanished and I started painting. It wasn’t until
I was almost done that darkness suddenly fell on me and my project… near darkness in a well lit gymnasium? I looked up, and twelve very tall men in basketball uniforms were standing around me in silence. I was an indifferent Christian at the time, but I prayed.

Then somebody whispered, “It went from lame to cool in…like that.” and he snapped his fingers. He was also the captain of the team. I felt… woozy. They said complimentary things about my artistic decisions, and said he looked “bad a**”. I went home not
quite believing what happened. Then… the bullying disappeared. It was odd for the first week, because I kept encountering various members of the basketball team throughout my day in unexpected times and places, and they would just nod at me and move on.

But things were easier. I’m not saying I was immune to bad press, or that I became one of the cool kids. Far from it! Even certain… personalities still gave me a hard time every so often. But it was never as sustained or as harsh (or physical) as it had been before.

I don’t know how helpful my story is, because most kids would say, “Aww, well, if you were such an awesome artist, no wonder they stopped messing with you.” Frankly, I wasn’t the best artist. I think they liked that I took the subject more seriously, but that’s besides the point. I think, I showed them something about me that day that left me vulnerable, and gave them something interesting to pin down. A framework where I existed in their world, and I was no longer a threatening unknown.

I think that some bullying is done when they can’t figure a person out, to “see what they are made of” and to negate any threats. I’m not sure how to tell that kind of bullying from
the “dominate the weak kid at all costs” type bullying where there doesn’t seem to be any good solution. All I could do for my kid (if God wills it) is say, “kid, when you go to school, do something awesome. Do what you do, and do it well. That way, you don’t have to explain who you are to them at the end of a nasty threat.”

While this doesn’t work well for school work, it CAN work even for science fair. Or so an incredibly nerdy friend of mine once said. I don’t know if this works for everyone, but it has worked for a number of people you might not expect.

The only trouble with this solution is that it has to come from the bullied kid, and not the authority[tm] or even parents. The problem with authority is that most kids (especially the relevant kids) don’t generally respect it, and authority can’t be around all the time.