Addressing non Christian clerics by an honorific title?

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Just wondering if it’s all right to that or if it’s not for some reason.If it’s not for some reason how come.One particular cleric who I know is addressed by an honorific is the Dalai Lama who’s called “his holiness” (which interestingly is also used for the Pope).So for example if I was talking to the Dalai Lama (which would be neat) would it be alright if I address him as “your Holiness” or I cant because that would be reserved for the Pope only since I’m Catholic?.Thanks for your time and happy new year.
 
Personally, I consider it an act of Christian charity to call a person what he/she desires to be called. It is not so much a show of respect for (or belief in) the office or position they hold as it is an acknowledgement of that person’s fundamental dignity as a human being.

God bless you,

Paul
 
I even call Mormons who come to the door by the honorific “elder” even though they are spotty youths.😛
 
I even call Mormons who come to the door by the honorific “elder” even though they are spotty youths.😛
Back in my angry ex-Mormon atheist days, I would call them “kid” as a demonstration that I did not recognize their “priesthood”. After I came to Christ I stopped that and called them “elder” - the CCC had taught me the importance of human dignity.

Paul
 
Think of it in terms of addressing secular authorities (royal or otherwise), even though the Queen of England might not be your monarch, would it really be worth the stir it would cause if you didn’t address her as “Your Majesty”? (Unless, of course, you want to cause a scene.)
 
Personally, I consider it an act of Christian charity to call a person what he/she desires to be called. It is not so much a show of respect for (or belief in) the office or position they hold as it is an acknowledgement of that person’s fundamental dignity as a human being.

God bless you,

Paul
Well, we’re talking about clerical offices, and associated titles, of non-Christians, not their feelings or their status as a human being. If their individual emotions demand such a title, and not the power with which they hold an office, they are not acting from the seat of that office, but their personal pride.

The Dalai Lama is addressed as “his holiness” by people out of respect for the “office”, which this current one took as a small child when he was determined to be the reincarnation of a former spiritual leader. A leader who, through a vision, was told by a “goddess” she would protect his reincarnation lineage. He’s not the leader of a religion, he’s just a Buddhist from a specific school of it in Tibet who is widely respected because the chicken bones hit the right combo, or there exists in the personality or other aspect of the person a similarity to a previous title holder.

Philosophically, I can’t reconcile respecting the human dignity of the man in his position by addressing him as anything holy and pertinent to his office. He’s just a Tibetan guy who ran his mouth to the world about Chinese occupation and now he can’t go home, and he’s capitalized on his situation, however altruistic. I can reconcile being respectful to an office, but in this case, the office is laughable when you actually study it from the context of its own philosophy compared to Christian understanding. It’s not even a universally Buddhist office or position. And it’s only been around in Tibetan Buddhism since the 15th century A.D. or so.
**
The only reason he is famous is because of China’s activity in this and the last century. **
Non-Tibetans are allowed to meet the Dalai Lama once a year as part of his international outreach to raise awareness about Chinese occupation of Tibet. Tibetans are essentially allowed to meet him once in a lifetime - he greets Tibetans who have recently fled Tibet.
Read more: How to Greet the Dalai Lama | eHow.com ehow.com/how_18783_greet-dalai-lama.html#ixzz1iGhhStj3

Remember, just because the world does something, doesn’t mean you have to do it as well.

I simply can’t “call someone what they desire to be called” if it conflicts with established Christian tradition.

I can, however, be respectful as possible depending on who it is and the situation in which I’m meeting them. And really, I think that’s about all we really should do, lest we compromise our witness.
 
Just my two cents, but I agree about the value of showing human dignity towards others. However, if I don’t personally believe in their honorific title I will do what I can to not use it and still respect the person. For example, if I were discussing something with a bishop of a church in which there is not valid Holy Orders, I would try to just skip the proper polite term and address the personally in a polite, general way (same way as if I met someone new but upon the next meeting I can’t remember the name and don’t want to embarrass either of us). Or I might just use the term sir, madam, or ma’am. If these few options will not work, would offend the person severely, or would cause a scene, then I would use their title as a matter of respecting that person. So, I try to not emphasize the title but I will use it if absolutely required. :twocents: On a related note, if it was a title that was offensive to me or my Catholic Christian faith, then that’s another matter entirely. In that case, there cannot be a compromise and the term cannot be used.
 
I wouldn’t call him “your holiness”.

Its no offence to his dignity as a human being to call him “sir”.

As a Commonwealth citizen I’d call the Queen Her Majesty, but the Deli Lama isn’t the head of my religion, I don’t beleive in reincarnation, and as nice a guy as he is, I sure won’t be stroking his pride by calling him “holy”. And to be frank, I don’t see the Deli Lama as holy, he’s a guy who is teh figure head of an incorrect religion.

If I meet him, he’s gonna be called “sir” or “mister”.

The whole “call them by their own title is what they want and thus important for their dignity” is rubbish. I know someone who likes to be called by a really rude and crass title, I’m not calling them that. They get “sir”, “mister” or their first name.
 
The whole “call them by their own title is what they want and thus important for their dignity” is rubbish. I know someone who likes to be called by a really rude and crass title, I’m not calling them that. They get “sir”, “mister” or their first name.
I agree. Honor is earned not just given away. From time to time one is forced to use such titles due to social constrains (a diplomatic phrase for “threats”) , but generally Mrs. or Mr. should be enough for every human on this planet.
I’d call the pope “Herr Ratzinger” and the Queen of England “Frau Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha”, if I should every meet them.
 
Just wondering if it’s all right to that or if it’s not for some reason.If it’s not for some reason how come.One particular cleric who I know is addressed by an honorific is the Dalai Lama who’s called “his holiness” (which interestingly is also used for the Pope).So for example if I was talking to the Dalai Lama (which would be neat) would it be alright if I address him as “your Holiness” or I cant because that would be reserved for the Pope only since I’m Catholic?.Thanks for your time and happy new year.
A title is a title. I think it’s fair and reasonable to use it. Using the title does not mean you accept what the man says is true in its entirety. It is just convention.
 
This topic recently came up at a family gathering when my sister related a story about the bishop of our diocese coming into the dental office where she works. She saw his name on the schedule and informed the front desk person (a non-Catholic) that he should be addressed by his title of Bishop XXXX and not by his first name unless he requested it. This person remained unsure and went ahead and asked him. He replied that “Bishop XXXX” would be fine. My sister was a little embarrassed that her co-worker didn’t initially accept his title since she felt the bishop is well-known not just in the diocese but in the community. So my niece’s boyfriend was listening to this story (also a non-Catholic) and defended her co-worker saying he wouldn’t have known to use his title either, but even if he did, he questioned honoring a man/position that is only important to Catholics within the context of Catholicism (i.e. if the bishop is outside of the church he shouldn’t expect everyone to use his title). My sister and I argued the point that using an honorific title doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with their beliefs or politics, but recognizes their position not just in the church but in the community. It’s an identifier. For example, it’s customary to call the presidents, past and present by their title…to call doctors, Dr. XXX instead of Mr. XXX, etc.

Now for my struggle having said all that…I would have a hard time calling someone in another faith by their honorific title because it WOULD feel like I’m honoring something I don’t believe in. :confused: For example, I worked for a man whom I liked for many years who also happened to be an LDS bishop. He, of course, never used that title in his work life and perhaps that’s the difference. A Catholic bishop is always a bishop because it’s who he is public and private…there is no separation between public and religious life.
 
This topic recently came up at a family gathering when my sister related a story about the bishop of our diocese coming into the dental office where she works. She saw his name on the schedule and informed the front desk person (a non-Catholic) that he should be addressed by his title of Bishop XXXX and not by his first name unless he requested it. This person remained unsure and went ahead and asked him. He replied that “Bishop XXXX” would be fine. My sister was a little embarrassed that her co-worker didn’t initially accept his title since she felt the bishop is well-known not just in the diocese but in the community. So my niece’s boyfriend was listening to this story (also a non-Catholic) and defended her co-worker saying he wouldn’t have known to use his title either, but even if he did, he questioned honoring a man/position that is only important to Catholics within the context of Catholicism (i.e. if the bishop is outside of the church he shouldn’t expect everyone to use his title). My sister and I argued the point that using an honorific title doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with their beliefs or politics, but recognizes their position not just in the church but in the community. It’s an identifier. For example, it’s customary to call the presidents, past and present by their title…to call doctors, Dr. XXX instead of Mr. XXX, etc.

Now for my struggle having said all that…I would have a hard time calling someone in another faith by their honorific title because it WOULD feel like I’m honoring something I don’t believe in. :confused: For example, I worked for a man whom I liked for many years who also happened to be an LDS bishop. He, of course, never used that title in his work life and perhaps that’s the difference. A Catholic bishop is always a bishop because it’s who he is public and private…there is no separation between public and religious life.
Which reminds of the TV series MASH, Colonel Potter would only use “Father Mulcahy” in formal or semi formal situations, the type when he would use the full rank of his other men. When he was in a more personal situation it was “padre”, thus avoiding calling another man “father”
 
Many soldiers in my unit would just use “chaplain”. In that situation I guess you could even draw a Wiccan for your unit these days.
 
The house of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha rules England since Queen Victoria died. They renamed themselves in 1917 to “Windsor” because of WWI. So that is her real surname.
Let me, please, correct that error. Royals do not have a surname. The Queen is called Elizabeth Alexander Mary. Windsor is the name of the Royal House. It is their choice not yours. To call them Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha is silly. The Royal House was never called Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha; it was called Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. You might as well go back further and call them Hanover, Stewart, or Anjou. Plus, non-royal descendants of the Queen have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor not Windsor.
 
Let me, please, correct that error. Royals do not have a surname. The Queen is called Elizabeth Alexander Mary. Windsor is the name of the Royal House. It is their choice not yours. To call them Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha is silly. The Royal House was never called Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha; it was called Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. You might as well go back further and call them Hanover, Stewart, or Anjou. Plus, non-royal descendants of the Queen have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor not Windsor.
I have another name for them - however politeness stops me from uttering it! I know its a bit off subject but why should I respect someone who fronts a system that excludes Catholics from the office of Prime Minister and who’s National Anthem wants to “crush” my nation.
 
Let me, please, correct that error. Royals do not have a surname. The Queen is called Elizabeth Alexander Mary. Windsor is the name of the Royal House. It is their choice not yours. To call them Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha is silly. The Royal House was never called Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha; it was called Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. You might as well go back further and call them Hanover, Stewart, or Anjou. Plus, non-royal descendants of the Queen have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor not Windsor.
Excuse me, but to think someone is royal is silly. Um, not silly, but not democratic and against all human rights. I treat all people the same way, and just because someone was born with a golden spoon in his or her arse doesn’t make them any better than the rest of us. To give a honorific title to someone who has *earned *it, like a PhD or -sensei, is one thing, to give it to someone just because his ancestors were ruthless enough to plunder and dominate over their fellow citizens, something different. An ordinary name is good enough for them, as it is for anybody else.
A noble wants to be addressed in a special way, and that’s purely his choice? Well, I tell them this: Your neck is as fragile as mine, and here’s a Guillotine to prove it.

Oh, btw, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha is just the English translation of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, they are all half-German anyway.
 
I have another name for them - however politeness stops me from uttering it! I know its a bit off subject but why should I respect someone who fronts a system that excludes Catholics from the office of Prime Minister and who’s National Anthem wants to “crush” my nation.
Would you want me to address you my a rude name? I suspect not. Then perhaps what you expect to be extended to you as a common courtesy then extend that to others in the spirit of Christian charity. If you do not like the British Royal Family that is your personal choice. Likewise, that is what I prefer to the American-style presidency, which I doubt is far from being a perfect institution. I would like you to, please, provide a reference for you citation that the British Prime Minister cannot be a Catholic.
 
Excuse me, but to think someone is royal is silly. Um, not silly, but not democratic and against all human rights. I treat all people the same way, and just because someone was born with a golden spoon in his or her arse doesn’t make them any better than the rest of us. To give a honorific title to someone who has *earned *it, like a PhD or -sensei, is one thing, to give it to someone just because his ancestors were ruthless enough to plunder and dominate over their fellow citizens, something different. An ordinary name is good enough for them, as it is for anybody else.
A noble wants to be addressed in a special way, and that’s purely his choice? Well, I tell them this: Your neck is as fragile as mine, and here’s a Guillotine to prove it.

Oh, btw, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha is just the English translation of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, they are all half-German anyway.
I note with interest that you have altered the direction of our discussion of the topic. That leads me to ask myself why? Out of Christian charity I will not put forward my ideas for why you have changed the direction of the discussion. I do not care whether or not you like the British Royal Family. That is your personal choice. I am quite happy for you to hold that view. I am sure that you, like most of us, want to be addressed in the manner that you choose. Therefore, you should extend that respect to others. Your personal opinions are perfectly valid as your own personal opinion. However, they can not change facts. The Royal House was called Saxe-Coburg and Gotha not Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha. It is now called the House and Family of Windsor. Just like you choose your own name this is their choice; not your choice. The Queen and the members of the Royal Family with the style HRH do not have a surname. Those who do not have HRH if they are descended through the male line have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor. Of course, their choice of surname is theirs not anyone else’s.
 
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