Adjusting to Catholic vs. Anglican liturgy

[Seatuck]

Geez louize… ok I do know the faith. I do understand the mass. I understood it better as an Anglo-catholic than dare I say 90% of Catholic parishioners. I have no problems understanding the theology of the mass.

Senor is right. I knelt as an Anglican and clearly do not think it is for begging. I am wondering why the Catholic church dealt away with kneeling at the altar rail for communion. Simple as that. Following the pope has nothing to do with it. Obviously I’m going to stand if everyone else is standing. I just want to know why. That’s it.

Some examples are “I don’t know.” or “Because they felt that it better displayed X.” or because “It looked too much like X” or “It helped do X” or “It made it possible to X.”

Son of Monica,

You may want to look around at other Parishes to see if they offer a liturgical style that better suits you . Pope John Paul 2 began what is known as “the reform of the reform” and it is continuing under the present Pope. It is thought that many people interpreted the Vatican 2 docs to say something that they did not and they made many changes that were not envisioned by most in the church. But as a snow ball gains in size as it travels downhill so the changes. We are seeing a return to some things they way they were done earlier. Liturgy at this point is varied from parish to parish and also within the same parish.

 

[twf]

SonofMonica: I would suggest finding a more traditonal parish, if there is one near-by. Have you ever experienced the Extraordinary Form of the Mass? (That is, the Tridentine Latin Mass). It is still a perfectly valid and equal option, celebrated at some parishes. Under the reign of Pope Benedict it is slowly making a come back. There is a parish dedicated to the Extraordinary Form in my diocese; I love to assist at Latin High Mass on major feast days - the reverence and beauty just blows me away.

That being said, the Ordinary Form can also be celebrated very reverently and with great beauty. I was blessed to spend this last holy week in Rome. I assisted at a few masses celebrated by the Holy Father himself. The norm in Rome, at least from what I experienced, appears to be the Ordinary Form but with Latin chant, heavy use of incense, and majestic choirs singing beautiful polyphony. The Holy Father asks that those who receive Holy Communion from him do so kneeling and on the tongue. There are a few parishes in my diocese that also receive Holy Communion this way. My own parish still has an altar rail, though the norm remains standing (for some reason). (Though monsignor chants most the mass, uses incense every Sunday, and the choir only sings reverent, traditional hymns).

It is also important to note that, contrary to popular belief, receiving Holy Communion on the hand is NOT the norm. It is allowed as an INDULT in many countries, but the universal norm of the Latin Church remains receiving Holy Communion on the tongue. This is always your right as a Catholic, and no priest or bishop can ever refuse you this right. (Any bishop can, however, refuse to allow the faithful to receive on the hand, as it is only a pastoral indult, not the norm). You should also be aware, as clearly laid out in the previously referenced document Redemptionis Sacramentum, that the only ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are ordained clergy (deacons and priests). If a sufficient number of deacons and priests are present, laity are absolutely forbidden to assist in distributing Holy Communion. When true necessity arises, the Church allows laity to be commissioned as “extraordinary ministers of the Holy Communion” (usually known as EMHCs on this forum), but many believe that this allowance has been greatly abused in North America. (I’m mentioning this because I assume you are use to kneeling AND receiving from a priest).

 

[Chatter163]

Many Episcopal parishes today stand for communion, as well, depending on the local custom. ECUSA changed its prayer book rite in the 1970s, following the RC lead, when the 1928 book was jettisoned for what became the 1979 book. They also adapted the three-year lectionary. Even Anglo-Catholic parishes followed suit (though not in all cases, I know), as many who used additions from the Anglican Missal dropped these in favor of a more Novus Ordo-style Order of Mass, including free-standing altars.

 

[Jsmith17]

I am wondering why the Catholic church dealt away with kneeling at the altar rail for communion. Following the pope has nothing to do with it.

You’re right, following the Pope has nothing to do with it-

“The Church from Rome never said remove the altar rails, but if you can find any document from Rome saying remove the altar rails, I will give you a turkey.”

• Francis Cardinal Arinze, Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments

youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0g3UMRtMM

 

[kbcooley]

I don’t know where you live, but you should check to see if there is an Anglican Use Parish in your area. We attend Our Lady of the Atonement here in San Antonio and the mass is beautiful. I think you will find it very similar to what you are used to. You can go to the parish website at www.atonementonline.com and read the history of the parish and the Anglican Use liturgy. There may even be a link to search for other Anglican Use parishes. God bless you on your journey.

Kevin

 

[SonofMonica]

Thanks for the suggestions, all. It’s not that I’m unhappy with my parish at all. Personally, I think going to Latin mass this early might cause some reluctance in my wife’s desire to enter full communion with me. I certainly do not want to impose any stumbling block at this point–God has been in control until now and I want him to be throughout the process. Even if the EOF (Latin) Mass is everything it’s cracked up to be, I am trusting that God will give us that experience in His own time. There are no such parishes in Texarkana, and we are enjoying getting involved in the one we are now attending.

Really, I am just wondering about the Church’s motivation(s) (theological or otherwise) in switching from kneeling to standing. That’s all. I didn’t mean to open a can of worms about the pope requiring folks to kneel or the pros and cons of EOF v. OF Mass.

Thanks again and I’d appreciate further comments, if anyone can shed some light.

-SonofMonica

 

[twf]

SonofMonica: In the Eastern and Oriental Rites of the Church, standing has always been the norm. In the East, standing is the proper posture for prayer and an expression of respect/reverence; kneeling is often seen as more penitential. That being said, in the Latin tradition, kneeling is an expression of adoration. I personally can’t think of any theological reason why receiving standing should be preferred in the Latin Rite, and the Holy Father’s shift to kneeling suggests to me that he agreeds with me…
I would say that some individuals advocated standing to promote a liberal, perhaps even heretical agenda…others simply promoted standing as a pastoral provision…

 

[SonofMonica]

Thanks, twf… If there were indeed multiple reasons by different folks, I wonder if time-saving (getting people through the line quickly) played any role…

 

[twf]

SonofMonica: I think the “time saving” aspect is something proponents of standing do push a lot…but personally, I don’t buy it. I have seen both methods in action many times, and receiving at the altar can be done very efficiently…

In my archdiocese, the cathedral offers both modes of reception at every mass (daily or Sunday). If you wish to receive standing, you line up along the centre aisle. If you wish to receive kneeling, you line up along the altar rail on either the left or right hand side…they always have a couple extra priests come in at just the right moment to help distribute Holy Communion.

 

[Sarabande]

Son of Monica,

You may want to look around at other Parishes to see if they offer a liturgical style that better suits you . Pope John Paul 2 began what is known as “the reform of the reform” and it is continuing under the present Pope. It is thought that many people interpreted the Vatican 2 docs to say something that they did not and they made many changes that were not envisioned by most in the church. But as a snow ball gains in size as it travels downhill so the changes. We are seeing a return to some things they way they were done earlier. Liturgy at this point is varied from parish to parish and also within the same parish.

This is true. We know a priest who recently became pastor of this parish. This year, the children who received their First Holy Communion were all instructed to receive kneeling. He is working to re-introduce kneeling to receive the Eucharist in his parish and is starting with the children, which I think is smart.