Admitting gay seminarians to a school full of men?

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artimes121 said:
You do realize that there are many factors besides sexual orientation when it comes to how perpetrators of sexual abuse choose victims? There’s access to victims, how likely said victim is to come forward, the inability of some abusers to form connections with adults, whether its for sexual gratification or a feeling some sort of power hierarchy fulfillment, to even projection of self onto the victim. While i agree that Political Correctness is a problem in not only in our society and the church, but to say that homosexuality is the sole reason completely ignores the complexity of underlying causes.
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I could not disagree more. It’s not the sole reason, but I believe it is the biggest reason. It is the root of the problem, and needs to be eradicated from the priesthood. I don’t know how one could possibly overstate that 81% of the abuse cases were perpetrated by homosexual priests. Those men had no business ever being priests, yet somehow they got through the seminary. Had they been eliminated from becoming priests, we wouldn’t be talking about a huge sex abuse scandal right now. The question is how and why did they get through? We already know that certain seminaries went rogue and pushed a homosexual agenda. Very sad and wrong.
 
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Does it seem to anyone else that the real problem in all this is deeper & less obvious? I feel that widespread acceptance of birth control has ushered in a whole new age, where sex (especially sex without consequences) is god and the idea of a happy fulfilled celibate life is preposterous. We see through sex-skewed glasses. Celibacy is a necessary virtue in all of us, but in this age perhaps more so than in any other, it is a virtue mocked, neglected and rejected, to the ruin of all of us. A real man can be celibate and completely fulfilled, especially with the help of the Holy Spirit working in us. Not easy, but possible. Just ask Jesus.
 
Just want to add that the most recent offences of priests in the diocese where I live were perpetrated against teenage girls and a woman. In the latter case no charges were filed because there was no crime, just a very overt attempt at an improper relationship. I knew both parties so I’m privy to the attitude/opinion of the priest; he seemed to think that it was okay for celibate priests to have “someone” on the side. Remember, celibacy means unmarried so it wasn’t a violation against celibacy. I wasn’t in the position to ask about being chaste. What I’m interested in knowing is how prevalent this attitude is in seminaries or among seminarians and priests. The former case I mentioned above was perpetrated against teenage girls. That priest was charged with a crime but I also see it as being similar to the priest who thought having a woman on the side was the way to go; the former just picked a more vulnerable victim.
 
Why does every generation think they either invented sex or sexual deviancy, and that previous generations were Puritanical before there were Puritans? (I know the Puritans are not a good example, they had their own weird sexual peccadilloes).
 
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He was really matter of fact about it and the victim (prior to being a victim) tried to explain it away, like it was a misunderstanding. He was a proponent of a married priesthood and she conflated the two. I wasn’t wrong in my understanding.
 
You make a good point. As someone who keeps calling out the homosexual sub-culture in the Church (and rightly so) I admit that sometimes people like me have to step back and remember men who are SSA and chaste. They absolutely should be welcome in the Church. Having said that, do I want fewer homosexual priests? Yes I do, sorry if that offends.
 
glorybe said:
Who is the one single head of the Lutheran Church?
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I’m not entirely sure what this has to do with sex scandals; the Pope shouldn’t have to intervene. But if it does matter, there is a Presiding Bishop.

At any rate, I mainly chimed in because it appeared to me that you were claiming the media was unfairly targeting the Catholic Church. The reality is that I’ve yet see another church go through the shenanigans many dioceses have gone trough to the skirt the issue. The case I’m most familiar is when then Archdiocese of Milwaukee dumped $55 million into their cemetery trust fund (it had $5 million previously).

Hiding money

I know these cemeteries are in good shape, I have at least 3 may 4 entire generations on both sides of my parents buried there. As you might have seen in the article the Diocese then declared bankruptcy, pretty cynical in my very. The Bishop that over saw part of this is now a Cardinal, the Archbishop New York, and one of the most prominent Bishops in the country, Bishop Dolan. He’s also one that gave the Catholic invocation at Trump’s inauguration.
 
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Having said that, do I want fewer homosexual priests? Yes I do, sorry if that offends.
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I mean, it depends on your reasoning. It’s one thing to say you don’t want homosexual priests because their personality scares you. Or you think they are going to “recruit you” to indulge in sex acts. And it’s perhaps another thing if you are actually convinced that homosexual priests are the problem behind the scandal.

As for the latter, I still think you’d be mistaken, and I think the latter is partly affected by or even based in the former — fears, homophobia, etc.
 
I here what your saying, but having married priests creates a whole group of separate problems that I don’t think the church should have to deal with as well.

Opening up the priesthood to married priests won’t really improve things from what I have seen but would rather create separate problems altogether.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
I here what your saying, but having married priests creates a whole group of separate problems that I don’t think the church should have to deal with as well.

Opening up the priesthood to married priests won’t really improve things from what I have seen but would rather create separate problems altogether.
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I think a class of married priests that function on the same lines as permanent deacons could work.
 
Well then they would just be Deacon’s right? From my experiences the answers are in traditional mass groups which appear to be producing a significant number of strong priests that are solid in faith and teachings of the church. Here is an article that outlines the success that is occurring in the diocese of Lincoln.


Also, I’m not a traditional Latin mass attender, just figured I would let you know for a bias check here haha
 
ConcernedConvert said:
Well then they would just be Deacon’s right?
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No, not deacons but priests, but under the same arrangements as permanent deacons: married men at least 35 years of age, having proven that they are solid Catholics through parish involvement and proven family values, responsible for their own housing and income, available to celebrate on at least Sundays. But they would be bonafide priests. A celibate priesthood is a discipline, not a doctrine.

Yes their would be a lot of kinks to work out, for things like parish administration which may require lay involvement as well. There’s no doctrine that says it takes a priest to hire, fire or deal with a leaking roof.

Question: how many married permanent deacons involved in the abuse crisis have we heard about? What are the statistics, total numbers, percentage involved, etc.?

And while we’re at it, what are the abuse stats on married Catholic priests? Yes, they exist already.

Let’s work with facts if we can.
 
Hey I’m not really arguing with your point. I haven’t looked at the stats, but can imagine that your correct in that married priests and deacons have a lower abuse rate.

I just don’t think that is the solution as it opens the door for different types of problems. Especially if there are groups out there demonstrating that strong, healthy and celebate priests can still exist and keep up with the needs of the church.
 
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If they function the same as a permanent deacon, then what’s the point of them being priests?
 
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WillPhillips said:
acknowledge the sexual frustrations of celibate men?
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If sexual frustration were the cause of abuse, then there would be no cases of sexually active men abusing others. And we know that PLENTY of sexually active men are abusers. People, men in particular in my experience, are clearly uncomfortable with celibacy and it makes a convenient scapegoat, but there is no basis in fact for the “sexually repressed men must have sex or they will become violent” mantra.
 
PJH_74 said:
I’m not entirely sure what this has to do with sex scandals
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You stated that mainline Protestant churches DEAL with the issues. Unless you are the one single head of the Lutheran Church, how do you know that for certain? Don’t you think we Catholics thought the same thing? Don’t you think we are all shocked to the core?

I was just informed that I’ve replied to you too many times and to send personal messages after this, so that won’t happen and i cut this one short.
 
The only group that I have a bit of knowledge about, is the Communauté St. Martin in France. I use their antiphonary and it is excellent, so it piqued my curiosity. They are strictly Ordinary Form, but with Gregorian Chant.

The key points I think, are an excellent discernment process, complete orthodoxy and fidelity to the Church and her doctrines and her disciplines, and never ever staffing a parish with only one priest.

As for deacons, I found this article which claims less than 1% of permanent deacons have been implicated in the abuse crisis.


You are right that married priests would require major adjustments. But so too would be spreading the St Martin approach to seminaries. It would require major reforms of all seminaries, parish staffing rates and perhaps as a result, parish closures and mergers.

There is no easy way out. Talk and apologies are cheap. Real action is needed. And whatever solutions are embraced, it’s going to hurt. A lot.
 
Also some statistics to watch in this area would be Protestant pastors, there marriage rates are very high somewhere in 90 % or greater. And they have similar rates of abuse reported if not greater than the Catholic Church.
 
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