Admitting gay seminarians to a school full of men?

[chessnerd321]

teach that boys will be boys and that women are more morally culpable for the sins of their brothers than they are.

In my experience both the preaching and counsel in confession of most any priest is almost the exact opposite of this.

I would like to second however basically everything else you said.

Edit: Well, I suppose I will also add that I believe we have a bounty of reasons for priestly celibacy. Just wanted to make my position on that part of it clear.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I don’t want anyone who is sexually active, gay or straight, in seminary.

 

[rcwitness]

I don’t want anyone who is sexually active, gay or straight, in seminary.

It’s a contradiction. A hypocrisy

 

[mrsdizzyd]

There are already restrictions in place regarding homosexuality and the seminary. Apart from asking people about their sexuality (already being done) what else is there to do?

With regards to homosexual activity in seminaries, the problem is not sexual orientation. The problem is chastity. It should not be news to any of us that remaining chaste is a challenge.

 

[theCardinalbird]

You’re saying I’m a danger to children and shouldn’t go to mass. Who the h*** do you think you are to tell me that and then say that I’m sinning if I leave the church?

Whoah who is saying that? I never heard that before.

If you think I shouldn’t be admitted to seminary because of feelings I can’t control even though I discipline myself more in body than straight men are EVER asked to do by the church… you’re an awful person.

I think (but I’m not too sure) that the ban on those with deep seated same sex attraction can’t be admitted to seminary is papal order (not sure if this is the entirety of it. Ask your priest if you feel a calling and see what he says about this).

Also these people aren’t being bad persons. If it is papal order then we are obliged to obey the ecclesiastical authority of the Church.

 

[theCardinalbird]

If you think homosexuality is in any way responsible for the abuse crisis, you’re an awful person.

Do you have conclusive proof that there isn’t a connection?

(I don’t know if there is or isn’t I’m just wondering)

 

[chessnerd321]

I discipline myself more in body than straight men are EVER asked to do by the church… you’re an awful person.

Uh. Like any unmarried straight man perhaps? Or priest? Or brother?

And actually some commenters are saying homosexuality is to blame and that’s not a prudent thing to say, I agree. But homosexuality does, in fact, have plenty to do with the secret underground gay culture that some seminaries apparently have.

 

[chessnerd321]

With regards to homosexual activity in seminaries, the problem is not sexual orientation.

I suppose in a strict sense you’re right. But do you really not see the imprudence in having gay men live only with other young, possibly gay, men? I think there’s some middle ground to be had here. I don’t want no gay priests either. God can call them all the same. But I think it only adds to the problem to pretend that gay and straight seminarians are in the same situation.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

You realize most sexual assault is straight guys right? Even in the priesthood.

That is untrue. The investigation of the priest abuse scandal found that 81% of the cases were perpetrated against males, mostly in their teens.

 

[Charistoph]

Let me restate that: if you’re saying that the reason for the abuse is because some priests are gay, you are saying that gay people—me—are a danger to children and should stay away from church.

Pedophiles abuse the kids they have the oppurtunity to abuse. In terms of priests, they usually have more oppurtunity to abuse male children. It has nothing to do with anyone being gay.

In any case, I’m tired of being a scapegoat for the church trying to maintain image instead of cleaning house.

 

[StarMapp]

Entering Catholic associations and ministries always comes with preparation to ensure that one’s state of disposition is pure. These associations are a privilege as they are sanctioned by God. They are an essential tool that aids us and others to purification. As with many temptations, they have a motive which is to get us into such a state of impurity that our soul would be in peril if we were to be called to justice. Entering an association with a careless unconcern of one’s state, positions him to be a weak servant of the dark side. It would be advisable that a candidate work with a spiritual advisor to the point where he is determined that he has re-gained, or is in complete control of his temptation before entering. This may take years if one has gone into acting out his temptation, or less if one is just receiving the first suggestions or impulses to these acts.

A sincere confession, mass, daily Rosary, and a virtuous life of charity are the eventual cure of all of these sins, and a way to diminish these temptations.

 

[theCardinalbird]

you are saying that gay people—me—are a danger to children and should stay away from church.

Again, who is saying you have to stay away from Church?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If you think homosexuality is in any way responsible for the abuse crisis, you’re an awful person.

I do not believe that what people are saying is that homosexuality is responsible for the abuse crisis but homosexuality in the priesthood has created a problem, a crisis, in seminaries and in the priesthood and it must be dealt with. From what I have heard commentators and other priests say, is that the temptation to not be chaste is hard to fight for a man with SSA in the priesthood.

You’re saying I’m a danger to children and shouldn’t go to mass. Who the h*** do you think you are to tell me that and then say that I’m sinning if I leave the church?

I think many people are saying the opposite, that since it is not so much pedophilia, that the danger is not as much to young children but, again, that the temptation to remain chaste is difficult to maintain for a man with SSA in the priesthood and that puts other men who are trying to be chaste in difficult situations. And many of the abuses were attacks on post pubescient teens that has caused them harm.

No one, that I have heard of, has ever said you should not go to Mass. Yes, definitely you should go to Mass. The same as everyone else, keep your soul in a state of grace, go to Mass and receive our Lord in the Eucharist.

You’re just making up excuses for why I should be excluded from church life. And you’re a bad person.

No one is making excuses for, nor does anyone want you excluded from Church life. Plus, just my two cents, there is good in everyone. People do bad things but there are no “bad” people.

God bless.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

Well, obviously enough seminarians were not committed to the celibate life otherwise we wouldn’t have had these giant sex abuse scandals, where overwhelmimgly the abuse cases were men against teenage boys. The root of the Church’s abuse problem is not clericalism — it’s rampant homosexuality in the priesthood. There are plenty of cases were certain seminaries, against the laws of the Church, openly encouraged this behavior. Often heterosexual men who believed in ALL the teachings of the church were kicked out of these rogue seminaries for trumped-up issues while the openly homosexual candidates were put through. It’s simply unbelievable but there was some pretty evil stuff going on.

 

[WillPhillips]

WillPhillips:

You realize most sexual assault is straight guys right? Even in the priesthood.

That is untrue. The investigation of the priest abuse scandal found that 81% of the cases were perpetrated against males, mostly in their teens.

The Church is not transparent about abuse stats and doesn’t release numbers. But we can confidently use secular statistics to show abuse is overwhelmingly committed by men, and overwhelmingly against women.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

That 81% of reports were from teen boys does show the focus of the coverup and says a lot about the church leadership’s concerns with reputation.

 

[exnihilo]

We need chaste men in seminary. Not heterosexual men. Our goal should not be to ask a seminarian what their orientation is, but to ensure they are capable of living out their vow of celibacy in a chaste manner.

I disagree. A man who gives up heterosexual sex, marriage and a family not because he doesn’t desire it but because he seeks a higher good will typically be a much better priest. He is giving up something he thinks is good. He is sacrificing a good for something better.

Let me restate that: if you’re saying that the reason for the abuse is because some priests are gay, you are saying that gay people—me—are a danger to children and should stay away from church.

Pedophiles abuse the kids they have the oppurtunity to abuse. In terms of priests, they usually have more oppurtunity to abuse male children. It has nothing to do with anyone being gay.

What is your basis that they have more opportunity to abuse male children? I’ve heard the altar server argument but I see mostly girls as alter servers.

The abuse falls into two categories. You have sexual abuse of children and pederasty. The pederasty is almost entirely homosexual. How is that explained?

Regardless the numbers are so heavily slanted to homosexual sex acts that homosexual inclination is most definitely a part of the story.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

Put even a good strong man in a lonely position like that and there’s a good chance he too will go off the rails. Perhaps not sexual abuse, but perhaps alcohol or other addictions, porn addiction, unchaste adult heterosexual behaviour, etc.

Well that’s setting the bar pretty low. I think most good men are capable of much better than that. Celibacy is a serious commitment, and serious men who want to devote their lives totally to the Church are quite capable of it.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve never seen or heard of a chaplain housed inside a convent with the sisters. Actually, I don’t think it would be allowed.

See above. And it’s a very traditional community, the monastery was built well before the Council with that arrangement.

 

[catholic1seeks]

As a SSA Catholic guy, I’m increasingly becoming confused as to what the Catholic Church wants from gay people. Or at least, what several Catholics in the online world want from gay people.

On the one hand, they want us all to be celibate and chaste.

On the other the other hand, they imply that this in an impossibility for gay people.

Maybe they just want us out of the Church altogether?

 

[Chris-Wa1]

Certain seminaries were a big part of the problem! They pushed the homosexual lifestyle, in violation of the laws of the Church, and weeded out candidates that were loyal to the teachings of the Church. There was some really evil stuff going on.