Adoption & Biological Mother problem

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If it were me I would:

a) tell this woman to stop harassing my relatives and tell my relatives to hang up on her immediately if they still expect to be part of my and my child’s life

b) agree to send a picture and an update once or twice a year as long as there was no other attempt to contact me or my relatives

c) Remind her that she has absolutely no legal standing and that any agreement I make to send info and updates is done through the goodness of my heart and then explain attempts to contact me, my child, or my relatives void any agreement and will result in a restraining order

I believe you said your boy is 5? Have you notified the school staff that your sons bio mom does not have any parental rights, your wife is your sons legal mother, and that they are NOT to release your son or any information about him to anyone other than you and your wife?
 
And with regard to sharing photos and updates, with the background given here and if the adoption went though, no that is not a good idea. That can get you, the OP in legal trouble. Don’t do it. Again, what you have to do is that adoption is an irrevocable process after finalized and she must keep her distance. If she becomes insistamt or starts haranguing you or your family, that is harassing and you should be able to file criminal charges against her. Talk to a lawyer if she starts giving you problems.
 
God_Seeker said:
Hi friends,

I wanted to bring my situation to the wisdom of the forums. I plan on sitting down with a counselor from my diocese, but I thought I could start here.

I was born and raised Catholic. At the age of 18, I “married” a woman in a baptist church, and we remained together for about 4 years. During this time, we had a baby boy together. At the age of 1 years old, the woman left me to live half a state away from me, and initially brought the baby with her. After the civil divorce, she and I would exchange the child week on and week off. So for one week, I would have the baby, then she would have him the next week. We would have to meet at certain halfway points in the state to perform drop-off/pick-ups.

Within about 2 months, she stopped coming to pick the baby up, and I ended up being with the baby permanently. She came up to visit him a couple of times within the next year. But eventually, at sometime after the baby turned 2, the courts modified the custody arrangement to where I have sole parental rights of the child, and her rights of visitation were severely limited. She never did receive notification of her rights in this regard. Let’s say she chose a life that was not upright, and I was afraid of her influence in the child’s life, and so I let her move on in life, and did not contact her. She, however, had means of contacting me through email, phone, and family relatives of mine she knew. But she never sought me out for a very long time.

Periodically she would call to see how the baby was doing.

At the child’s age of 3, I “re-married” a woman in a pentecostal church, and this woman then legally adopted my son. To do this, the biological mother’s rights had to be voluntarily terminated. At the time, I was given the option by my lawyer to offer the biological mother forgiveness of all the child support payments she owed for years (which she had never payed) if she would terminate her rights so that my new wife could adopt him. Suprisingly, she accepted, but did not really express her true feelings about this.

The biological mother got into trouble with the law, ended up going through drug court, and then coming out graduating. However, her life took a real turn for a bad spot, and she has struggled immensely.

Now my son’s age is 5 1/2, soon turning 6, and I’ve since been received back into the church and received the sacrament of marriage with my current spouse (who also entered the church), who is the legal mother of my son. He calls her “mommy”, but he knows (as best as a 5 year old can) that she is not the original biological mother. He does not know his biological mother, even if he sees her. We have tried all ways of explaining this, but he understands. He has a baby brother now too:) that he loves dearly

The problem that I am having right now is that the biological mother has gotten back on her feet, and desires a relationship with the child. She at least wants to see pictures, know how he is doing, etc,etc. My current wisdom tells me that this should not be introduced right now. But I am being viewed as a bad person because I refrain him from seeing her, and I also refrain her from seeing pictures of him, because I lost so much contact with her that I do not know who she is anymore, nor the people she hangs around with.

How should I go about dealing with this situation?

Thanks for your time!
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Well when you put the custodial payments as a condition no matter how you look at it you did kind of use that against her. I can kind of see her point there. It might cause you trouble if she decides to sue for custody rights or visitation. I would send her a letter and some photos every 6 months as others have suggested. You probably did the right thing to get her away from your son you just might not have done it in the right way. I’m sure being a parent you we’re thinking of the child at the time and not of possible concequences later. Prayers.
 
MJJean said:

“I believe you said your boy is 5? Have you notified the school staff that your sons bio mom does not have any parental rights, your wife is your sons legal mother, and that they are NOT to release your son or any information about him to anyone other than you and your wife?”

That’s a very good point.
 
Luvz2travel said:
Well when you put the custodial payments as a condition no matter how you look at it you did kind of use that against her. I can kind of see her point there. It might cause you trouble if she decides to sue for custody rights or visitation. I would send her a letter and some photos every 6 months as others have suggested. You probably did the right thing to get her away from your son you just might not have done it in the right way. I’m sure being a parent you we’re thinking of the child at the time and not of possible concequences later. Prayers.
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This is not true. No she cannot seek anything. She has as much rights over the kid as a stranger in the park has. Again he can’t send her any updates or anything because that may get him in trouble. He did things the right way and the law is on his side. She is the one that can get in serious trouble if she attempts anything.
 
Xantippe said:
MJJean said:

“I believe you said your boy is 5? Have you notified the school staff that your sons bio mom does not have any parental rights, your wife is your sons legal mother, and that they are NOT to release your son or any information about him to anyone other than you and your wife?”

That’s a very good point.
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^^^ yes great point. He needs to list her in the list of people to whom the child should never be released. And if she ever goes to the school to try to take the kid, then that is attempt to kidnap and you should report it to the police as such.
 
Does it really create a legally dangerous situation for the OP if he sends photos and updates? How does that even work under US law?
 
Xantippe said:
Does it really create a legally dangerous situto theion for the OP if he sends photos and updates? How does that even work under US law?
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Of course. Imagine you are at the park with your small child and all of a sudden a stranger comes and tells you that wants pictures of your child and wants youto bring your child to the sstranger’s house. As a reasonable parent what would you do? Would you agree to that stranger’ s request? No right, first you would think the stranger is a child predator or a probably a kidnapper and any reasonable parent would run away and call the police. If a parent does actually says to the stranger oh OK no problem I am going to send you pictures of my kid…to a complete stranger… Wouldn’t you think that is highly irresponsible from that parent? Most people would see that conduct as endangering the child and child protection services would see this conduct as harming too.

Well the woman in this case from a legal point of view is exactly in the same position as the complete stranger in the park approaching an unknown child. The woman is a potential kidnapper and you are going to agree with a potential kidnapper to send the kidnapped pictures???. Child protectiom services or its equivalent finds out that he is sending a potential kidnapper updates and pics and yes he is going to be in legal trouble because child protection service is going to see that as put the child in danger. His danger is CPS finding out.

Remember that woman for the law is a complete stranger, she is nothing to the child. Thisbwomam had her parental rights terminated by a court which makes it worst. I am mot sure if you understand what having parental rights terminated entails but court terminate parental right because for a reason and usually is a very good reason. She gets her parental rights terminated and then he sends her pictures? Child protection services finds out and the op is in big trouble.
 
marymary1975 said:

“Child protectiom services or its equivalent finds out that he is sending a potential kidnapper updates and pics and yes he is going to be in legal trouble because child protection service is going to see that as put the child in danger. His danger is CPS finding out.”

Really? I’m pretty sure that CPS is not going to treat that as a four-alarm fire situation. They are buried in actual cases of abuse and neglect. Sending a regular letter and photos to a child’s biological mother (even if she was a really lousy mom) does not really rate. If that’s worthy of a CPS investigation, all those people who put a million photos of their kids on Facebook and document every single bath and bandaid had better start saving for a lawyer.

Also, a biological mother doesn’t really need photographs to ID her child in a crowd. If she knows what she and her relatives look like and she knows what the OP and his relatives look like, it’s not that hard to ID her biological child. She only custody in the last year or so, right?
 
Xantippe, you keep looking at her as the child’s “biological mom” or the “mom” and that is why you don’t picture the situation correctly. No, she is not the child’s mom, and you cannot think of her like that. Legally she is a stranger to the child, legally the child has the same relationship to her as the child has to you or me. None! You say that he is only sending letters to his mom, no that wrong because she is not his mom. He already have a mom - OP’s wife- he would be sending letters to a potential kidnapper. Do you see the difference?

Second, child protection services was already involved in this case…the woman got parental rights terminated. While the case may be closed if there was a case opened at one point they are always on the look over their closed cases. If this would be a new case maybe you can say that well they may be too busy ( which I would never say because i have seen too many instances of them going after cases that they shouldn’t go after) but this is an existing case in which she got terminated.

Third, she didn’t lose custody (neither she gave the kid for adoption). Losing custody and having parental rights terminated are different things. She got terminated and an adoption was finalized. Why would she be looking for the child in a crowd unless she is thinking about kidnappin
 
MaryMary1975 said:

“Why would she be looking for the child in a crowd unless she is thinking about kidnappin”

If that were her plan, she wouldn’t need a photograph. She knows what her kid looks like.

Also, in this day and age, there are probably a number of photographs of the child floating around the internet that the OP doesn’t have control over. People are very dumb about putting stuff with other people’s kids up on the internet without asking permission or thinking if there might be a problem. And in any case, she almost certainly has a number of photographs already. That particular horse has left the barn.

When you were mentioning legal I was thinking that maintaining ties with her might legally fuzz up the custody issue and open up the possibility of her somehow reopening the case, which would be genuinely scary. I can’t believe I’m using the term “just CPS,” but if it’s just CPS, big whoopty-do. All he’d have to say is, “I’m sorry, Ms. CPS, I didn’t realize I wasn’t supposed to send her photos or information. I won’t do that again,” and then he’s off the hook from maintaining contact with her and has a gold-plated excuse. In some ways, that would be a desirable outcome. But honestly, I don’t think CPS has that sort of expectation.

There are so many unwise photographs and FB posts floating around these days, that I can’t believe that CPS would even pick up the phone. If they would, I suggest they start reading the archives at www.stfuparentsblog.com for some better leads.

stfuparentsblog.com/post/104717405/show-of-hands-ladies-who-wishes-their-mom-had

stfuparentsblog.com/post/40699053519/questionable-parenting-nakedness-edition

“No, she is not the child’s mom, and you cannot think of her like that. Legally she is a stranger to the child, legally the child has the same relationship to her as the child has to you or me.”

I’m not thinking in terms of her as the child’s mother, as a person with rights, but as the child’s very near blood relative. Similarly, grandma or grandpa or auntie don’t have legal “rights,” but they are near blood relatives, they are hard to avoid, and they do have to be eventually mentioned/explained to the kid. It isn’t the case that people are either custodial parents or total strangers–there’s a huge spectrum here from custodial parent to near relative to distant relative to stranger on the street.
 
Also, if CPS is already in the picture, it might actually make sense to ask them for written guidelines as to what kind of interaction is appropriate when parental rights have been severed.
 
Trying to make a long story short, so forgive me if I confuse anyone.

A friend had parental rights to all 4 of her were children terminated. Her 2 daughters went to their fathers (ex-husbands 1 & 2). Her 2 sons were legally adopted by her brother and SIL as their fathers wanted nothing to do with them.

Because I spent some time as a witness, I was at all of the court hearings. At the hearing where the mothers rights were formally terminated, ex-husbands got full legal custody of their kids, and the brother and SIL adoption was final my friend specifically asked the judge about contact with the children. The judge said that **IF **the adoptive parents and her ex husbands wanted to allow contact it was entirely up to them as sole custodians. Basically, she could have the same relationship with the kids any unrelated adult could have with the kids at the parents discretion.

So, no, unless there is some court order banning the birth mother from contact with the father and child I would say that whatever contact he and his wife allowed would be at their discretion.
 
marymary1975 said:
This is not true. No she cannot seek anything. She has as much rights over the kid as a stranger in the park has. Again he can’t send her any updates or anything because that may get him in trouble. He did things the right way and the law is on his side. She is the one that can get in serious trouble if she attempts anything.
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I’m not saying she would do that but she can try and with the legal system the way it is who knows what would happen. I don’t known the laws for each state but if someone holds a condition of money up as means of getting someone to give up their parental rights that could be looked on as a sort of extortion in a way. If she got the right lawyer she could use that for grounds for reversal. I’ve heard of other such cases. Since this doesn’t seem to be in issue though at the moment I would do as others suggested and just send her annual updates through your lawyer and having her send all communication to your lawyer for him or her to give to you.

I
 
MJJean said:
So, no, unless there is some court order banning the birth mother from contact with the father and child I would say that whatever contact he and his wife allowed would be at their discretion.
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It don’t think the issue, is “can,” but rather “should.” With actions like this, the first and only question is “how does this benefit my child.” Since the ex’s rights are legally terminated, and the child has been adopted by another mother, the ex’s needs and wants aren’t relevant, unless it benefits the child first and foremost.
 
Xantippe said:
MaryMary1975 said:

“Why would she be looking for the child in a crowd unless she is thinking about kidnappin”

If that were her plan, she wouldn’t need a photograph. She knows what her kid looks like.

Also, in this day and age, there are probably a number of photographs of the child floating around the internet that the OP doesn’t have control over. People are very dumb about putting stuff with other people’s kids up on the internet without asking permission or thinking if there might be a problem. And in any case, she almost certainly has a number of photographs already. That particular horse has left the barn.

When you were mentioning legal I was thinking that maintaining ties with her might legally fuzz up the custody issue and open up the possibility of her somehow reopening the case, which would be genuinely scary. I can’t believe I’m using the term “just CPS,” but if it’s just CPS, big whoopty-do. All he’d have to say is, “I’m sorry, Ms. CPS, I didn’t realize I wasn’t supposed to send her photos or information. I won’t do that again,” and then he’s off the hook from maintaining contact with her and has a gold-plated excuse. In some ways, that would be a desirable outcome. But honestly, I don’t think CPS has that sort of expectation.

There are so many unwise photographs and FB posts floating around these days, that I can’t believe that CPS would even pick up the phone. If they would, I suggest they start reading the archives at www.stfuparentsblog.com for some better leads.

stfuparentsblog.com/post/104717405/show-of-hands-ladies-who-wishes-their-mom-had

stfuparentsblog.com/post/40699053519/questionable-parenting-nakedness-edition

“No, she is not the child’s mom, and you cannot think of her like that. Legally she is a stranger to the child, legally the child has the same relationship to her as the child has to you or me.”

I’m not thinking in terms of her as the child’s mother, as a person with rights, but as the child’s very near blood relative. Similarly, grandma or grandpa or auntie don’t have legal “rights,” but they are near blood relatives, they are hard to avoid, and they do have to be eventually mentioned/explained to the kid. It isn’t the case that people are either custodial parents or total strangers–there’s a huge spectrum here from custodial parent to near relative to distant relative to stranger on the street.
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No xantippe you are still very confused over the issue and I understand your confusion as you are not a lawyer, you are not familiar with the process and you don’t work in family court. But no you don’t have the right view in here. She is not either like any blood relative because there was an adoption ( don’t use the word custody because that word is incorrect as to this case) And adoption severes any tie. I am not going to give you a family law adoption class in here but in short your view is not the way how it works legally.
 
Luvz2travel said:
I’m not saying she would do that but she can try and with the legal system the way it is who knows what would happen. I don’t known the laws for each state but if someone holds a condition of money up as means of getting someone to give up their parental rights that could be looked on as a sort of extortion in a way. If she got the right lawyer she could use that for grounds for reversal. I’ve heard of other such cases. Since this doesn’t seem to be in issue though at the moment I would do as others suggested and just send her annual updates through your lawyer and having her send all communication to your lawyer for him or her to give to you.

I
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No again what you are saying here is completely incorrect
 
marymary1975 said:
No again what you are saying here is completely incorrect
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If it’s completely incorrect how come there have been so many cases of it in the news??? :confused: I’m not saying it would happen just that she might try it.
 
Luvz2travel said:
If it’s completely incorrect how come there have been so many cases of it in the news??? :confused: I’m not saying it would happen just that she might try it.
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She got her parental rights terminated by a Court and then an adoption was finalized. You are probably confused (cases where the adoption has not been finalized may be what you are thinking about or you may be thinking cases in which a woman gives the child in adoption and then during the process she changes her mind, those are different. You are missing the termination issue). After a termination and a finalized adoption there is no way of going back.
 
When my daurghter was 14, she became pregnant. She gave birth and gave the baby up for adoption. This blessing is now 18yrs and wants to establish a relationship with her biological mom… My daughter does not want this. How do you tell this to this young lady without crushing her?
 
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