Adoption by Same Sex parents vs Orphanage: Morality

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Flambeau

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Good Morning Everyone,

Will someone please enlighten me as to our church’s teaching on whether it is more moral for a child to live in an Orphanage vs with a couple engaged in an unnatural relationship.

Are there any nuances that would change the situations? I’m not trying to engineer any absurd situations but say the Child was in a terrible orphanage and the family that truly wanted him were two Christ-loving women who wanted to treasure.

I’m fairly certain I know what the answer is objectively, but am less sure subjectively.

Would appreciate any advice, especially with regards if there’s been a USCCB proclamation on this subject or anything in the Catechism

God Bless Everyone
 
I worked with family services in my state, Some gay homes were ridiculously better environments then straight homes.
 
Flambeau said:
Good Morning Everyone,

Will someone please enlighten me as to our church’s teaching on whether it is more moral for a child to live in an Orphanage vs with a couple engaged in an unnatural relationship.

Are there any nuances that would change the situations? I’m not trying to engineer any absurd situations but say the Child was in a terrible orphanage and the family that truly wanted him were two Christ-loving women who wanted to treasure.

I’m fairly certain I know what the answer is objectively, but am less sure subjectively.

Would appreciate any advice, especially with regards if there’s been a USCCB proclamation on this subject or anything in the Catechism

God Bless Everyone
Click to expand...
I work with different adoption agencies and there are vast number of parents (man and woman) waiting for a child.
There is no need to send them to a couple that is not living a moral natural life.
There are parents waiting for kids for years.
This whole subject is so ridiculous when one actually sees the reality and not the common slogans that go around such as, “if they love each other” “the homosexual couples can provide a better environment”… Those are slogans that the proponents of this agenda want to inculcate in society. Truth is that they are not and the best and ideal environment for a child is to grow up with a mother and a father. Everything else falls short of that.
Those who advocate for homosexual couples to adopt don’t have a clue as to the reality of the matter. They want to say that all straight parents are horrible. What a big lie! Especially when it comes to parents who are willing to adopt.
Always strive for the best for the kid. That is with a mother and a father, unless someone wants to say they are unnecessary and irrelevant, which is not true.
Both have a different role and the family is really an icon of our life giving Trinity.
 
Magdalenaa said:
I work with different adoption agencies and there are vast number of parents (man and woman) waiting for a child.
There is no need to send them to a couple that is not living a moral natural life.
There are parents waiting for kids for years.
This whole subject is so ridiculous when one actually sees the reality and not the common slogans that go around such as, “if they love each other” “the homosexual couples can provide a better environment”… Those are slogans that the proponents of this agenda want to inculcate in society. Truth is that they are not and the best and ideal environment for a child is to grow up with a mother and a father. Everything else falls short of that.
Those who advocate for homosexual couples to adopt don’t have a clue as to the reality of the matter. They want to say that all straight parents are horrible. What a big lie! Especially when it comes to parents who are willing to adopt.
Always strive for the best for the kid. That is with a mother and a father, unless someone wants to say they are unnecessary and irrelevant, which is not true.
Both have a different role and the family is really an icon of our life giving Trinity.
Click to expand...
lol

Seriously, this is great. As a Family Law Attorney who represents kids in CPS cases, I could not disagree with your emotionally charged statement any more.

The dirty secret is that gays are people just like straights. Some make good parents, some don’t. To categorically deny them the right to have a family solely because they way they choose to have sex dosen’t match up word for word with the requirments of some holy book, bogles my mind, its 2015!
 
Why does the op want compare against a bad orphanage? Seriously, you’ve set up a false dichotomy, as if every orphanage is evil and every same sex couple is made up of two good Christians. Why not compare a decent orphanage filled with loving Christian adult caretakers-- or more likely to be found today-- good Christian foster parents vs. adoption to non-relatives in a fatherless or motherless home?
 
I gather you do not mean two women living together as if they were sisters, but two women (or two men–it does not matter) living together in a relationship that teaches that homosexuality is the equivalent of heterosexuality, correct? It is the objectively immoral living situation that poses the difficulty.

Are there people here arguing that parents who have a threesome arrangement would pose no difficulties as adoptive parents, provided the situation was “committed” and their parenting was good in every other respect? Does it matter whether the parents run a legal prostitution venture? I find it hard to believe that no one thinks the sexual morality of adoptive parents make any difference at all.

What is new is that homosexual living situations are moving from immoral to “essentially moral” in the minds of many people. It is considered bigoted to say that it is immoral for homosexuals to attempt to live in an arrangement that is an outward imitation of marriage. In short, while people still believe that sexual morals matter, they want to make an exception when the people involved are pleasant homosexuals with steady jobs and with habits and values that are otherwise typically middle class.
 
In reality what is happening is that an adoption niche has developed accidentally for same sex couples. They tend to adopt the harder to adopt kids, while straight couples tend to migrate towards adopting babies.
Now to the OP’s point, the question will be moot for newborns since they are more in demand. But for a 9 y o whose chances at being adopted this may be a real issue. Personally, I know of gay couples who have adopted (from south america). The conditions were so bad that this was the best move in this case.
 
gardenswithkids said:
Why does the op want compare against a bad orphanage? Seriously, you’ve set up a false dichotomy, as if every orphanage is evil and every same sex couple is made up of two good Christians. Why not compare a decent orphanage filled with loving Christian adult caretakers-- or more likely to be found today-- good Christian foster parents vs. adoption to non-relatives in a fatherless or motherless home?
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Hello Garden, it is indeed presenting a false dichotomy because in order for an objective ruling to be cast, I have to figure you need to look at it in the light of all scenarios. If we’re going to say that it’s universally immoral for a same sex family to adopt children, I want to make sure that argument holds truth even if you tweak it almost to the point of absurdity.
 
EasterJoy said:
I gather you do not mean two women living together as if they were sisters, but two women (or two men–it does not matter) living together in a relationship that teaches that homosexuality is the equivalent of heterosexuality, correct? It is the objectively immoral living situation that poses the difficulty.

Are there people here arguing that parents who have a threesome arrangement would pose no difficulties as adoptive parents, provided the situation was “committed” and their parenting was good in every other respect? Does it matter whether the parents run a legal prostitution venture? I find it hard to believe that no one thinks the sexual morality of adoptive parents make any difference at all.

What is new is that homosexual living situations are moving from immoral to “essentially moral” in the minds of many people. It is considered bigoted to say that it is immoral for homosexuals to attempt to live in an arrangement that is an outward imitation of marriage. In short, while people still believe that sexual morals matter, they want to make an exception when the people involved are pleasant homosexuals with steady jobs and with habits and values that are otherwise typically middle class.
Click to expand...
Hello Easter Joy, I love your name by the way. I did intend the original question to mean two women who are living in an unnatural relationship, a mockery of marriage if you will. I certainly find the sexual morality of the parents EXTREMELY important, but am wondering if the good done by being raise by a couple who wanted them genuinely in at least a superficially Christ centered house would outweigh the ill done by placing a child in an unnatural household.
 
Flambeau said:
Good Morning Everyone,

Will someone please enlighten me as to our church’s teaching on whether it is more moral for a child to live in an Orphanage vs with a couple engaged in an unnatural relationship.
Click to expand...
I believe it is ordinarily moral to place a child in an orphanage so long as the orphanage isn’t doing anything evil to the children. I believe it is not moral to place with a couple engaged in an unnatural relationship because that causes scandal to the child.
 
Birdpreacher said:
lol

Seriously, this is great. As a Family Law Attorney who represents kids in CPS cases, I could not disagree with your emotionally charged statement any more.

The dirty secret is that gays are people just like straights. Some make good parents, some don’t. To categorically deny them the right to have a family solely because they way they choose to have sex dosen’t match up word for word with the requirments of some holy book, bogles my mind, its 2015!
Click to expand...
May I point out that the date on the calendar doesn’t matter?

“As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development. This is gravely immoral and in open contradiction to the principle, recognized also in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, that the best interests of the child, as the weaker and more vulnerable party, are to be the paramount consideration in every case.”

Source: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Best,
Ed
 
Flambeau said:
Good Morning Everyone,

Will someone please enlighten me as to our church’s teaching on whether it is more moral for a child to live in an Orphanage vs with a couple engaged in an unnatural relationship.

Are there any nuances that would change the situations? I’m not trying to engineer any absurd situations but say the Child was in a terrible orphanage and the family that truly wanted him were two Christ-loving women who wanted to treasure.

I’m fairly certain I know what the answer is objectively, but am less sure subjectively.

Would appreciate any advice, especially with regards if there’s been a USCCB proclamation on this subject or anything in the Catechism

God Bless Everyone
Click to expand...
False dichotomy. Yes, you are using extremes to prove your point but, in order for that to be valid, they have to be reasonably possible.
  1. We have very few orphanages around and those that do exist primarily house children who are not eligible for adoption. They are long term foster care.
  2. Christ loving women wouldn’t be involved in a same-sex relationship.
  3. The orphanages that do exist are heavily regulated, much more so than private homes. It is much more likely that an adoptive couple would be a bad placement than that an orphanage would have “terrible” conditions.
The Church speaks authoritatively against same-sex couples adopting and compares that to child abuse. That being said, I doubt any Church official would stand in the way of an adoption to a same-sex couple,** if that were truly the only option** other than institutional abuse or if one of the people was the last blood relative that could raise the child. But those are extreme and rare situations. Once you make legal accommodations for same-sex couples to adopt, they aren’t saving children from terrible institutions. They are keeping those children from being adopted into normal families with mothers and fathers.
 
thanks Ed, that’s exactly what I was looking for, you’re a scholar.👍
 
Magdalenaa said:
I work with different adoption agencies and there are vast number of parents (man and woman) waiting for a child.
There is no need to send them to a couple that is not living a moral natural life.
There are parents waiting for kids for years.
This whole subject is so ridiculous when one actually sees the reality and not the common slogans that go around such as, “if they love each other” “the homosexual couples can provide a better environment”… Those are slogans that the proponents of this agenda want to inculcate in society. Truth is that they are not and the best and ideal environment for a child is to grow up with a mother and a father. Everything else falls short of that.
Those who advocate for homosexual couples to adopt don’t have a clue as to the reality of the matter. They want to say that all straight parents are horrible. What a big lie! Especially when it comes to parents who are willing to adopt.
Always strive for the best for the kid. That is with a mother and a father, unless someone wants to say they are unnecessary and irrelevant, which is not true.
Both have a different role and the family is really an icon of our life giving Trinity.
Click to expand...
Your view is ridiculous,
Your so called “ideal environment” with a heterosexual couple is silly, as long as the parents to any child is getting there needs and love then that is completely ideal. Being a father myself I cannot come to understand why you would disagree so much with a happy family with loving caring parents. Is it too much of an abomination for you? Wake up!

You think that people are saying straight parents are horrible? That is typically hypocritical for a “living trinity” person.
Immorality is denying a child of a loving family, not a homosexual couple. I don’t think jesus would deny a caring family from anyone in the correct circumstances.

Get your head out off the bible and wake up to the real world. You people need it.
 
hehehehe said:
I don’t think jesus would deny a caring family from anyone in the correct circumstances.

Get your head out off the bible and wake up to the real world. You people need it.
Click to expand...
Obviously, if we want to know what Jesus thinks we need to have our head in the Bible. We are to be in the world, but not of this world. We need God and so do you.
God Bless
 
The fact that you’d deny a child to a loving homosexual couple is ridiculous. Straight couples don’t have the monopoly on being loving, good parents. I don’t think it’s very Christ-like t& think the Church needs to learn to accept the LGBT community into its tanks or it’ll fall into irrelevance.
 
hehehehe said:
Your view is ridiculous,
Your so called “ideal environment” with a heterosexual couple is silly, as long as the parents to any child is getting there needs and love then that is completely ideal. Being a father myself I cannot come to understand why you would disagree so much with a happy family with loving caring parents. Is it too much of an abomination for you? Wake up!

You think that people are saying straight parents are horrible? That is typically hypocritical for a “living trinity” person.
Immorality is denying a child of a loving family, not a homosexual couple. I don’t think jesus would deny a caring family from anyone in the correct circumstances.

Get your head out off the bible and wake up to the real world. You people need it.
Click to expand...
This forum is called Catholic Answers. The Bible and the correct understanding of human relationships needs to be understood by all. Jesus founded His Church for all.

The Church is wide awake and its observations and instructions are meant not just for Catholics but all men of good will.

Best,
Ed
 
Coco82 said:
The fact that you’d deny a child to a loving homosexual couple is ridiculous. Straight couples don’t have the monopoly on being loving, good parents. I don’t think it’s very Christ-like t& think the Church needs to learn to accept the LGBT community into its tanks or it’ll fall into irrelevance.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard that history repeats itself? It is our society that is going to fail, and Christ’s Church will have to pick up the pieces.
 
10gr8kids said:
Obviously, if we want to know what Jesus thinks we need to have our head in the Bible. We are to be in the world, but not of this world. We need God and so do you.
God Bless
Click to expand...
you people twist the bible so much no one knows what Jesus means anymore.

(also the insignificant factor that he doesn’t exist)
where in the bible does it have evidence to say that same sex couples will not provide the same needs as a heterosexual one. Is it in the same place where it says not to eat shrimp? or somewhere else?
 
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