Adressing a Deacon

[Aramis]

What is a heirodeacon?

A monastic who is a deacon.

In the Eastern Catholic Churches, any male cleric or religious is addressed as “Father”, even lay monks.

But not novices… And you can tell novices by their lack of the exorassion.

And amongst themselves, Brother is often used by monastics

 

[Angel_Bradford]

This is slightly off topic, but what happens to a transitional deacon who ends up not being ordained a priest (for example, someone who gets cold feet or flunks out of the seminary)? Do they have the option of remaining deacons or does Rome laicize them? (The example I am thinking about, if anyone has seen the movie/play “Mass Appeal” is the character of Deacon Dolson.)

I know of that exact situation happening recently. A transitional deacon who should have been ordained last June put off his ordianation. He has been working at a parish since then. The Bishop notified him recently that, as of December 15, while he will still be a deacon, he will no longer have faculties in his diocese and effective Jan 1, he will no longer have insurance or be eligible to receive a monthly check.

 

[Aramis]

I know of that exact situation happening recently. A transitional deacon who should have been ordained last June put off his ordianation. He has been working at a parish since then. The Bishop notified him recently that, as of December 15, while he will still be a deacon, he will no longer have faculties in his diocese and effective Jan 1, he will no longer have insurance or be eligible to receive a monthly check.

The Deacon can seek faculties as a permanent deacon.

I suspect there is something deeper, tho’… The withdrawal of faculties is itself indicative of further issues, since the deacon is incardinated somewhere, and it should be the diocese where he was ordained.

 

[Lapey]

I know of that exact situation happening recently. A transitional deacon who should have been ordained last June put off his ordianation. He has been working at a parish since then. The Bishop notified him recently that, as of December 15, while he will still be a deacon, he will no longer have faculties in his diocese and effective Jan 1, he will no longer have insurance or be eligible to receive a monthly check.

Exactly, he is still a deacon, but no faculties to do anything. We have one such case in my diocese; he can perform fewer duties in the parish where he resides than if he were a lay minister. He cannot teach, he cannot distribute communion, he cannot take part in anything during the mass except be a member of the congregation. Kind off harsh it sounds, but it is what it is.

 

[Lapey]

The Deacon can seek faculties as a permanent deacon.

I suspect there is something deeper, tho’… The withdrawal of faculties is itself indicative of further issues, since the deacon is incardinated somewhere, and it should be the diocese where he was ordained.

I understand what you say here but, the way it was explained to us in canon law class was that one who works towards the priesthood goes through the diaconate. It is not his goal to be a deacon, so no I do not believe he can petition for faculties.

Just the same as me once I am ordained into the permanent diaconate, the God forbid my wife pass, i cannot petition to be considered a transitional deacon then work a couple of years and be ordained a priest. I would have to start from scratch; first off I would have to find a bishop that would agree to allow me to pursue the priesthood. That’s not a guarantee.

I know these are different circumstances, but some of the same principles apply.

Also the withdrawal of faculties in many cases is a little simpler than some would realize, like excommunication it is used by the ordinary as a way to try to bring the person involved back to his calling. It can be an attempt to get them back on track, so to speak. It’s also a money issue. The diocese puts up all the expenses of seminary then the person doesn’t finish after 90% of the schooling has been paid and completed. Again it is a way of bringing this person back into the process to complete.

Withdrawal does not automatically point to something larger and darker than what I have stated.

 

[Aramis]

Exactly, he is still a deacon, but no faculties to do anything. We have one such case in my diocese; he can perform fewer duties in the parish where he resides than if he were a lay minister. He cannot teach, he cannot distribute communion, he cannot take part in anything during the mass except be a member of the congregation. Kind off harsh it sounds, but it is what it is.

What you’re describing isn’t merely lack of faculties, but suspension.

Canon law makes a roman deacon, by virtue of ordination, an ordinary minister of communion. Even if not granted faculties to preach nor teach, a deacon who is not suspended nor excommunicated is obliged to function as a minister of communion before any layman is to do so.

 

[Lapey]

What you’re describing isn’t merely lack of faculties, but suspension.

Canon law makes a roman deacon, by virtue of ordination, an ordinary minister of communion. Even if not granted faculties to preach nor teach, a deacon who is not suspended nor excommunicated is obliged to function as a minister of communion before any layman is to do so.

May be more like a censure. Not real sure of all the details of the case I am referring to. He may in fact be under suspension.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

While we have, technically, transitional and permanent deacons, there is only one Holy Order and one rite of Ordination to the Diaconate. So in reality we only have deacons.

Some of them are to progress on to the priesthood, some are not, but there is nothing in canon law that says a “transitional” deacon must process onto the priesthood. The canon I provided explicitly stated that a man can not be forced to proceed from deacon to priest and that he should not be denied the exercise of the office of deacon unless there is a canonical impediment or some other grave reason to do so.

A deacon (transitional) must petition his ordinary (bishop or major religious superior) to be accepted into the priesthood, this does not mean it will be accepted. I know of cases in religious life where they have not be accepted and the man remains a deacon and acts as such (in one case it was just a short time and he re-petitioned and it was accepted).

 

[ciero]

A monastic who is a deacon.

But not novices… And you can tell novices by their lack of the exorassion.

And amongst themselves, Brother is often used by monastics

At Holy Resurrection Monastery (Byzantine Catholic) the novices do wear the exorason, but do not wear the exokamilafkion (veil).

 

[Aramis]

At Holy Resurrection Monastery (Byzantine Catholic) the novices do wear the exorason, but do not wear the exokamilafkion (veil).

As with so many things in the Byzantine Rite, somewhere, someone does it differently.

 

[diggerdomer]

How does one address a deacon?

The correct way to address a priest is the Reverend N. N., e.g. the Reverend John Smith, simply we often address him as Father, e.g. Fr. Smith.

I think if a deacon is a temporary deacon preparing for the priesthood and we’d addreess him as the Reverend N. N., e.g. the Reverend Peter Brown. What would be the less formal style? Would it be Deacon Brown?

How do we address permanent deacons?

depends on whether you mean in person or in writing.

Which are you asking about?

 

[ciero]

While we have, technically, transitional and permanent deacons, there is only one Holy Order and one rite of Ordination to the Diaconate. So in reality we only have deacons.

Some of them are to progress on to the priesthood, some are not, but there is nothing in canon law that says a “transitional” deacon must process onto the priesthood. The canon I provided explicitly stated that a man can not be forced to proceed from deacon to priest and that he should not be denied the exercise of the office of deacon unless there is a canonical impediment or some other grave reason to do so.

A deacon (transitional) must petition his ordinary (bishop or major religious superior) to be accepted into the priesthood, this does not mean it will be accepted. I know of cases in religious life where they have not be accepted and the man remains a deacon and acts as such (in one case it was just a short time and he re-petitioned and it was accepted).

Do we call priests transitional because he might be ordained as a bishop? This idea of 2 classes of deacons is ridiculous. As I said earlier a deacon is a deacon is a deacon.

 

[ciero]

As with so many things in the Byzantine Rite, somewhere, someone does it differently.

I believe what is done at HRM is the norm in The Byzantine world.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Do we call priests transitional because he might be ordained as a bishop? This idea of 2 classes of deacons is ridiculous. As I said earlier a deacon is a deacon is a deacon.

I don’t think there’s two classes of deacon. It’s merely a convenience to identify those who are in the diaconate on their way to the priesthood and those who are to remain deacons for life.

It is my understanding one has to be a deacon before becoming a priest.

Paul VI re-established the permanent diaconate because in the past it had existed as an order in its own right and not just as a route to the priesthood.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Paul VI re-established the permanent diaconate because in the past it had existed as an order in its own right and not just as a route to the priesthood.

Pope Paul VI re-established the permanent diaconate for the dioceses.

The permanent diaconate has always existed within both the Eastern Catholic Churches and in the religious institutes in the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Aramis]

I believe what is done at HRM is the norm in The Byzantine world.

Doesn’t match OrthodoxWiki.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Pope Paul VI re-established the permanent diaconate for the dioceses.

The permanent diaconate has always existed within both the Eastern Catholic Churches and in the religious institutes in the Roman Catholic Church.

I knew the permanent diaconate had always existed in the East. I must confess I was surprised to learn that the permanent diaconate had maintained an existence in the Latin Catholic religious orders.

 

[EasterJoy]

While we have, technically, transitional and permanent deacons, there is only one Holy Order and one rite of Ordination to the Diaconate. So in reality we only have deacons.

Some of them are to progress on to the priesthood, some are not, but there is nothing in canon law that says a “transitional” deacon must process onto the priesthood. The canon I provided explicitly stated that a man can not be forced to proceed from deacon to priest and that he should not be denied the exercise of the office of deacon unless there is a canonical impediment or some other grave reason to do so.

A deacon (transitional) must petition his ordinary (bishop or major religious superior) to be accepted into the priesthood, this does not mean it will be accepted. I know of cases in religious life where they have not be accepted and the man remains a deacon and acts as such (in one case it was just a short time and he re-petitioned and it was accepted).

The thing is, though, even the permanent deacons make a promise of celibacy. Married men may be ordained, but once ordained they may not marry. (The Eastern Churches make no exceptions; I think I have heard that the Roman Rite sometimes makes an exception if a deacon is left with small children when his wife dies.)

A deacon, whether his intention was to be a permanent deacon or whether he intended to ask for ordination to the priesthood, cannot marry. I am open to correction, but I think the normal course for a deacon who would like to marry is the same as for a priest who would like to be freed to marry. He has to live the ministry entirely and petition for the permission. Once he has obtained that permission, he may not function as either an ordinary or an extraordinary minister, excepting some true emergency. (Baptism in danger of death, performing a wedding when a priest will not be available in the foreseeable future, that kind of thing…he could never celebrate the Eucharist or hear confessions, of course.)

 

[Matthew_Holford]

(The Eastern Churches make no exceptions; I think I have heard that the Roman Rite sometimes makes an exception if a deacon is left with small children when his wife dies.)

I do not question the veracity of that. I have only heard of that for the Eastern Churches; that a cleric may marry if he has young children, and that applies to both deacons and priests.

 

[EasterJoy]

I do not question the veracity of that. I have only heard of that for the Eastern Churches; that a cleric may marry if he has young children, and that applies to both deacons and priests.

OK, so maybe the local or American Eastern bishops have that policy, but it is at least not a strict thing applicable everywhere. Thank you. I had been told “the Eastern Church doesn’t allow clergy to re-marry, period.” Although the person who told me that would know, he might have been referring only to the local situation.