Adrian Fortescue

[JJR1453]

Hello all!

Greetings in Christ!

I have a question to whoever has read the learned scholar. I just ordered a book of his titled: The Orthodox Eastern Church. I am enthusiastically awaiting its arrival. How does this book on the Eastern Orthodox churches compare to others of its kind? The learned man is the recipient of a rare triple doctorate, so I assume his Catholic following will not render his scholarship untenable. However, I hope this assumption will not have been made in vain. Thanks for all the reviews/suggestions in advance!

God bless

JJR

 

[hormisdas]

I finished the book recently, and I rather enjoyed it. There are a couple of things to keep in mind though:

(1) It’s definitely not an objective, non-partisan history: that is, it’s written from an unapologetically Latin Catholic perspective. Many Eastern Orthodox and more “Orthodox-minded” Greek Catholics might be offended by some of Fortescue’s editorial comments. For my own part, I think some of his points are well-taken, but many are rather unfair. (At the same time, it’s possible that Fortescue’s take on Orthodoxy was fairly tame compared to other Latin Catholic estimates of the time.)

(2) It’s outdated, not only in terms of current events, but also in terms of scholarship. His account of the “Photian Schism”, for instance, was fairly standard for the time, but we have a much more accurate understanding of the whole affair thanks to the research of Francis Dvornik. There are also references to doctrinal standards (e.g. Catechism of Peter Mogila, Councils of Jerusalem and Jassy, etc.) which the Orthodox no longer regard as authoritative.

 

[Hesychios]

Adrian Fortescue is the All Star team anti-eastern Christianity all by himself.

All you need to do is read the Old Catholic Encyclopedia, most of the worst of the worst in articles about Eastern Christianity came from his pen. It is a commonplace that one does not go to the Old Catholic Encyclopedia for accurate and unbiased information about Eastern Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Take my advice and cancel the order. The man was a total bigot. If the book is anything like the encyclopedia articles it would be a giant step backward in your learning process.

Of course, reading this assessment from me I am sure that there will be more than a few other people interested in reading his work. So be it, I considered that possibility and took that risk when I posted. But I am trying to be honest here.

There is plenty of really good material from Catholic sources you could tap into, please don’t patronize that man’s garbage.

Michael

 

[Sepharad]

Hello all!

Greetings in Christ!

I have a question to whoever has read the learned scholar. I just ordered a book of his titled: The Orthodox Eastern Church. I am enthusiastically awaiting its arrival. How does this book on the Eastern Orthodox churches compare to others of its kind? The learned man is the recipient of a rare triple doctorate, so I assume his Catholic following will not render his scholarship untenable. However, I hope this assumption will not have been made in vain. Thanks for all the reviews/suggestions in advance!

God bless

JJR

I once had an original (!) issue of that book, from the turn of the 20th century, I believe it was. It had a red hardcover with a gold Eastern cross on the front, if I remember correctly.

Its a biased work, written from the POV of a Latin Rite Catholic, but I found it useful for learning more about the Eastern Rite.

I ended up gifting it to a Byzantine priest who ran the church down the street in my old neighborhood, so I don’t have it anymore.

 

[hormisdas]

Adrian Fortescue is the All Star team anti-eastern Christianity all by himself.

Since you are Orthodox, I am not surprised at your assessment. As I said, it’s a dated book, and it’s not for the faint of heart (or the easily offended). I found some very good information in it. I would recommend it only with the caveats I mentioned above.

Personally I am glad that, for the most part, it’s not kosher anymore for Roman Catholics to engage in this sort of polemicism against Eastern Orthodoxy. Now, if only the Orthodox would reciprocate. Fortescue is downright mild compared to some of the outrageous anti-Catholic polemics I’ve read in my time as an Orthodox convert.

I would not describe Fortescue as a “bigot” – that’s a pretty extreme bit of emotional hyperbole. So, he had some very strong opinions about what he regarded as the errors and foibles of the Eastern Orthodox, and he was a firm believer in the claims of his own Church. What’s strange about that? If Fortescue’s was a “bigot”, so is every Orthodox who forcefully expresses his views about the errors (even heresies) of Rome and the truth of his own Church.

 

[hormisdas]

May I also add that Fortescue has some very complementary things to say about Eastern Orthodox in his book. In particular, he repeatedly singles out and praises their firm adherence to faith in Christ through centuries of horrific Islamic persecution, when it would have been so much easier for them to apostatize.

Fortescue is also a huge fan of Eastern liturgies in general, and praises the Orthodox for their piety and preservation of their venerable liturgical tradition.

So, again, we’re not dealing with a “bigot” here, but a Roman Catholic scholar who had considerable admiration for the Orthodox Church, as well as considerable disagreement with some of their negative positions vis-a-vis Rome.

 

[JJR1453]

May I also add that Fortescue has some very complementary things to say about Eastern Orthodox in his book. In particular, he repeatedly singles out and praises their firm adherence to faith in Christ through centuries of horrific Islamic persecution, when it would have been so much easier for them to apostatize.

Fortescue is also a huge fan of Eastern liturgies in general, and praises the Orthodox for their piety and preservation of their venerable liturgical tradition.

So, again, we’re not dealing with a “bigot” here, but a Roman Catholic scholar who had considerable admiration for the Orthodox Church, as well as considerable disagreement with some of their negative positions vis-a-vis Rome.

Thanks to all of you for your helpful words!

I will definitely keep all of this in mind while reading this piece. It was my understanding as well that the scholar was very appreciative of the Eastern churches and Byzantine culture as a whole. Anyhoo, thanks again!

God bless

JJR

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

I originally thought this message was regarding someone who has purchased Dr. Anthony Dragani’s book about Fr. Adrian Fortescue.
I recommend this book be read by all who desire to separate Fr Adrian’s personal bias from true universal history.

books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=mlM1SRCdXtkC&dq=adrian+fortescue+dragani&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=9lACnjYbqw&sig=xX5ayslqHW1GjgJFfl84PBYCb5Y&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
“Adrian Fortescue and the Eastern Christian Churches”

 

[JJR1453]

I originally thought this message was regarding someone who has purchased Dr. Anthony Dragani’s book about Fr. Adrian Fortescue.
I recommend this book be read by all who desire to separate Fr Adrian’s personal bias from true universal history.

books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=mlM1SRCdXtkC&dq=adrian+fortescue+dragani&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=9lACnjYbqw&sig=xX5ayslqHW1GjgJFfl84PBYCb5Y&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
“Adrian Fortescue and the Eastern Christian Churches”

Thanks Chris!

I was actually thinking about purchasing Dragani’s book first, but thought it better to read Fortescue in his entirety before moving onto Dragani. Also, when I last checked, it was running about $100 bucks! That may not seem like too much money to some, but for a money-pinched college student it definitely is!
Just curious, have you read Dragani’s treatment Chris?

God bless,

JJR

 

[hormisdas]

I originally thought this message was regarding someone who has purchased Dr. Anthony Dragani’s book about Fr. Adrian Fortescue.
I recommend this book be read by all who desire to separate Fr Adrian’s personal bias from true universal history.

books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=mlM1SRCdXtkC&dq=adrian+fortescue+dragani&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=9lACnjYbqw&sig=xX5ayslqHW1GjgJFfl84PBYCb5Y&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
“Adrian Fortescue and the Eastern Christian Churches”

I would love to get this book. The price tag, as I recall, is a bit high. I will see if the local Catholic seminary library has a copy. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Hesychios]

Since you are Orthodox, I am not surprised at your assessment.

It is the same assesssment I had of him as a Byzantine Catholic.

Since you are Orthodox…

I suppose I could say the same about you, since you are Catholic I should not be surprised you defend the guy.

But we both know that is just typecasting, don’t we? And unfair to all the other Catholics besides…

I learned a lot of my anti-Byzantine/anti-Orthodox prejudices from the man when I was younger, I drank deep from the old Catholic Encyclopedia, editions of which I could secure at the library.

When I actually became involved with Byzantine Catholics, and their wonderful priests, I learned how distorted my impressions were. That’s when I became interested to learn the sources of that information.

There is no substitute for finding good reputable sources up front. The Catholic church has an abundance of really reputable scholars who can more than cover anything Adrian Fortesque knew on the subject. For what good you can learn from him, consider him redundant.

 

[hormisdas]

It is the same assesssment I had of him as a Byzantine Catholic. I suppose I could say the same about you, since you are Catholic I should not be surprised you defend the guy.

Actually, I’m not formally Catholic. Still Orthodox. But since I’m moving back to communion with Rome, your point is still valid.

The only point I’m trying to make is that Fr Fortescue wrote from a staunchly Catholic perspective, which includes the idea that the Orthodox are wrong for breaking communion with Rome and wrong for regarding Rome as schismatic and/or heretical. The fact that he writes from a Catholic bias does not mean that the man was a “bigot” … any more than you or any other staunch, principled Orthodox are “bigots” for rejecting Rome.

(Actually, in his work on “The Uniate Eastern Churches”, Fortescue does describe, and lampoon, many real bona fide Latin Catholic bigots, men who really did hate the Orthodox and their traditions … men who opposed the consistently liberal policies of Rome towards preserving legitimate Eastern traditions).

I learned a lot of my anti-Byzantine/anti-Orthodox prejudices from the man when I was younger, I drank deep from the old Catholic Encyclopedia, editions of which I could secure at the library.

Right. Just as any young Orthodox has a vast arsenal of anti-Catholic books, tracts, and websites from which to drink deeply.

There is no substitute for finding good reputable sources up front. The Catholic church has an abundance of really reputable scholars who can more than cover anything Adrian Fortesque knew on the subject. For what good you can learn from him, consider him redundant.

I agree, which I why I pointed out that Fortescue’s scholarship is rather outdated (e.g. his take on the Photian affair is utterly useless in light of Dvornik), and his tone is not in keeping with Rome’s more friendly approach to the Orthodox since the Second Vatican Council.

Nevertheless, I still enjoyed reading the book. One doesn’t have to completely buy into what the author is saying in order to gain some benefit from his book.

 

[JJR1453]

Nevertheless, I still enjoyed reading the book. One doesn’t have to completely buy into what the author is saying in order to gain some benefit from his book.

And here, my friends, is the point of reading, well- anything.

Very well put.

God bless,

JJR