Adult Catholic Education (rather long and involved I'm afraid)

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Please bear with me as to the length of this post. Some background is necessary in order to put my questions in proper perspective.

I am a lapsed (sort of) Catholic. To be honest, it wasn’t a case of my leaving the church. It was more that the church didn’t have a “place” for me. Ten years ago, I would have described myself as a “psychic” – until I met a priest who told me the proper terminology for a Catholic was “mystic”. He was the first priest I’d ever met who had faith enough to believe in things most people can’t see/hear/feel. Any other religious I’d tried to discuss these matters with either wanted to send me to a psychiatrist, or an exorcist.

Eventually, someone referred me to the Charismatics. They didn’t seem to be attuned to the same things I am – and frankly the “speaking in tongues” gave me the creeps. My Pre-Vatican2 understanding of what that spiritual gift entailed didn’t match up with what they were doing – so my one (and only) attendance at their meeting wasn’t something I’d care to repeat.

And so – I settled into a solo prayer life. I seldom attend church services, however I did make sure my child was baptised.

When my daughter turned three, she began to describe the same type of things I saw/heard/felt and I promptly decided that rather than have her go through the agony I went through in Catholic grammar school (wherein the nuns were positive any talk of such things were “of the devil”) – I’d simply send her to a secular school and teach her the essence of the Baltimore Catechism myself. For the same reason (to protect her from well meaning, but ill-informed amateur therapists and amateur demonologists) – I kept her out of CCD. Although she may not be able to tell you the exact subdivision of a particular concept in the Baltimore – she can make Catholic moral decisions in line with its teachings. I was quite careful in that aspect of her religious education.

Now that she’s a young adult, she’s expressed a desire to complete her Catholic education with the sacraments she’s never had (Penance, Communion, Confirmation). She’s old enough to be discrete about her “experiences” so I doubt she’ll have the same trouble I did as a child.

I honestly do not wish to go to the parish rectory and discuss my sanity (or perceived lack thereof) in my decision to keep her away from the heavy duty stuff (which the nuns terrified me with as a child). Nor do I want to hear a lecture on my lack of moral responsibility when I did what I felt was the most “moral” thing to do (given my experiences with people who “believe” something only in the abstract – but not when it confronts them in the “real world”).

That’s pretty much why I’m throwing my questions out on a messageboard anonymously.

I’d appreciate any advice as to how she should go about obtaining what she missed out on (at this late date) – and a general idea of how much class time (?) must be devoted to the process at her age (early 20’s). She’s a good student and will be attempting to fit in any religious instruction in an already overcrowded academic schedule.

Thanks
 
I have some knowledge of these things.

I am only writing this for you assuming that what you say here is true.
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Debutante:
I settled into a solo prayer life. I seldom attend church services,
This means that you are not fulfilling your Sunday obligation.

I am not going to construe from Seldom attendance that you also break the law of communion and the law of confession once a year.

**Mystics in the Catholic sense are completely faithful to church teaching and unless they are sick in bed do not miss the sacraments. **This why I really do not think that you should be considering yourself a mystic.

One thing that is common for all mystics or people who experience visions/locutions and all such like immaterial phenomena is a renewed spiritual life which includes the sacraments.

Read a life of St Bernadette, A life of St Alphonsous, A life of St Anthony Mary Claret, A life of St Dominic, A life of St Bernard. I can name some for you as I have recently (This year) read them. In ALL of these Saints without exception their faithfulness to Church teaching and practice increased until death.

Before you think I am condemning you as an amateur I am aware of multiple people going through similar things, as well as those that have gotten bitten by those things.

Seeing things is not an indication of anything. What is an indication of things is the subsequent behavior of said person. If it leads to increased holiness and faithfulness to the Church (This includes NOT Missing Church services because you do not fit in) then it is possible that such are from God.

Please Note that in many cases the church assumes otherwise until proven otherwise.

See the reason for hiding of Padre Pio in San Giovanni Rotondo. See Abbe Peyramale not going near the grotto and vetoing other clergy from going near the place at Lourdes. See the reasons for St Faustina being originally repressed.

In fact the behavior of nuns was perfectly Catholic.

If you disagree you have some serious thinking to do because you absolutely need a real reason to not go to Mass on a Sunday(or sat eve).

As to answer your question.

I think you are going to have a problem explaining to your daughter why you thought it necessary to not fulfill your Sunday obligation.

I would advise you to think very carefully on above since Sunday obligation is grave matter and your salvation needs to be worked out.

Paul
 
Your daughter should approach the priest in her local parish, tell him she is a baptized Catholic who is catechized but has not completed her Sacraments of Initiation, and let him guide her from there.

Depending upon the size of the parish and other factors she will either go through an Adult Confirmation program, private instruction with the priest (unlikely in this day of priests being in short supply and high demand), or RCIA. RCIA is really for those seeking to become Catholic (unbaptized or baptized in another denomination) but due to resource constraints many Catholic parishes cannot run multiple programs so Catholics needing their other sacraments often attend RCIA. The length, format, and other particulars are local to the parish.
 
**Mystics in the Catholic sense are completely faithful to church teaching and unless they are sick in bed do not miss the sacraments. **This why I really do not think that you should be considering yourself a mystic.
Paul
Paul:

Actually, there are extenuating circumstances which were not relevant to the questions I asked – so I omitted them. These place me (according to the priest I consulted) well within accepted parameters.

I agree with one of your statements – which was why I originally used the descriptive term “psychic”. It was the same priest mentioned above who corrected my terminology and insisted that I henceforth use the term “mystic”. Not one to quibble with authority, I complied with his directive.

In regard to the other issue – did the nuns act appropriately in my case? That would depend, I believe, largely on their motivations for their actions (which is a matter between them and God). As I grew older, I eventually reached the point where I no longer judged them, although admittedly, I have not reached the point of “forgetting the incidents as if they had never happened”.
I have, however, forgiven the nuns for the beatings (for lying, or insanity, or demonic possession) – whichever “reason” they decided upon at a given time.

However, the fact remains that I sincerely believe their interpretation of my “experiences” was not helpful. Telling a six year old that the “devil” is pulling them into a pit of fire and brimstone doesn’t really help. My mother eventually insisted that they stop because I was in a constant state of terror (based primarily on what they were saying – oddly, the voices and visions themselves never frightened me). I eventually learned the following: for many people, comfortable parameters of belief end at abstraction. Once I learned not to talk about seeing and feeling “presences” or hearing the flutter of wings (for example) the nuns were perfectly happy with me.

In regard to the matter of visions, there is seeing and there is interpretation of what is seen. These are two totally different matters, don’t you agree?

I imagine you’ve some experience with the Charismatics (at least you’ve not questioned my sanity).

1ke:

Thank you very much for the information you provided. I’ll pass it along to my daughter.

Debutante
 
Your daughter should approach the priest in her local parish, tell him she is a baptized Catholic who is catechized but has not completed her Sacraments of Initiation, and let him guide her from there.

Depending upon the size of the parish and other factors she will either go through an Adult Confirmation program, private instruction with the priest (unlikely in this day of priests being in short supply and high demand), or RCIA. RCIA is really for those seeking to become Catholic (unbaptized or baptized in another denomination) but due to resource constraints many Catholic parishes cannot run multiple programs so Catholics needing their other sacraments often attend RCIA. The length, format, and other particulars are local to the parish.
OP’s daughter’s preparation for the sacraments will involve more than “attending” any “program.” She will be expected to show a conversion of heart during the process. She will need to assent to the teachings of the Church. She will need to be a practicing Catholic.
 
Debutante,

As has already been stated, she is an adult she can make this request herself with no long histery needed. She will probably have to attend classes. She may find these classes boring , uninformative, a trial but out of obedience she may need to attend them depending upon the way things are done at that particular parish.

What about you? Any desire now to make things right with the church? A desire to overcome wrongs that may have been done to you? Perhaps this can be a time of discovery for you as well? I think if you went to a priest to start the process to come back in you’d find yourself welcome.

Taking the time to pray for both of you . Life is quite a journey, isn’t it?
 
she is now an adult and should approach the pastor on her own initiative, since she is the one requesting the sacraments, so he can get her started in a process with other Catholic adults, like herself, who need to complete their Christian initiation. She will want to let him know that she does have a good grounding in doctrine although it is quite likely that other in her class will be essentially uncatechized, and that actually is an area where she will be able to offer support to others.

As far as the truth, it will be taught, completely, holding nothing back. If she encounters a teaching which raises an issue for her (not you, we are not talking about you, we are talking about her), if she cannot get a satisfactory answer in class, and especially if it relates to something personal she does not want to discuss in class, she should speak with the pastor privately for his advice, and guidance on further reading and education on the issue, and spiritual direction, if indicated.

There is no reason for her to bring up or discuss in the class or with the layperson who may be in charge anything of a persona and private nature. Those things, including but not limited issues related to marriage and family, are properly discussed with the pastor in private.

if she is in college she should investigate the Catholic student center on campus because they may offer or know of classes at times and places convenient for students. In the meantime, a good gift for her will be the US Catholic Catechism for Adults, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and or the Compendium of the CCC, and a good bible, New American Bible would be best for purposes of this class, because the readings are those used at Mass. She should of course return to regular Mass attendance if she has not already done so.

A good shortcut and an indispensible aide in this process will be the rosary, so get one for her with a pamhlet on how to pray it, if she does not already know how. Mary will be her companion on this journey and will smoothe the way.

As for you, I am sorry you never got a better education on Christian Prayer and spirituality. A very good first book on this topic is by Fr. Groeschel, Spiritual Passages with its companion, Journey Toward God. Please join us on the spirituality forum for discussion on topics of interest, including mysticism. The best thing you can do for your daughter is set her the example by returning to Mass and the sacraments. It goes without saying it is the best thing for you as well.
 
OP’s daughter’s preparation for the sacraments will involve more than “attending” any “program.” She will be expected to show a conversion of heart during the process. She will need to assent to the teachings of the Church. She will need to be a practicing Catholic.
Well, duh.

The OP already stated the daughter was catechized and the daughter *wanted *to complete her Sacraments.

From the OP, "Now that she’s a young adult, she’s expressed a desire to complete her Catholic education with the sacraments she’s never had (Penance, Communion, Confirmation)."

I think your post is out of line to imply the daughter is not sincere in her desire.
 
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