Adult discussion; faint hearted and short-tempered may please get aside

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by swariffin:

Please quote all teaching of Jesus and Mary from Quran. Not the selected verse based on your liking.

**The Holy Quran : Chapter 19: Maryam مَریَم **

[19:61] اِلَّا مَنْ تَابَ وَاٰمَنَ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًـا فَاُولٰٓٮِٕكَ يَدْخُلُوْنَ الْجَـنَّةَ وَلَا يُظْلَمُوْنَ شَيْـًٔـاۙ‏
[19:61] Except those who repent and believe and do good deeds. These will enter Heaven, and they will not be wronged in the least —

[19:62] جَنّٰتِ عَدْنٍ ۨالَّتِىْ وَعَدَ الرَّحْمٰنُ عِبَادَهٗ بِالْغَيْبِ‌ؕ اِنَّهٗ كَانَ وَعْدُهٗ مَاْتِيًّا‏
[19:62] Gardens of Eternity, which the Gracious God has promised to His servants in the unseen. Surely, His promise must come to pass.

[19:63] لَّا يَسْمَعُوْنَ فِيْهَا لَـغْوًا اِلَّا سَلٰمًا‌ؕ وَلَهُمْ رِزْقُهُمْ فِيْهَا بُكْرَةً وَّعَشِيًّا‏
[19:63] They will not hear therein anything vain, but only greetings of Peace: and they will have their sustenance therein, morning and evening.

[19:64] تِلْكَ الْجَـنَّةُ الَّتِىْ نُوْرِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَنْ كَانَ تَقِيًّا‏
[19:64] Such is the Heaven which We give for an inheritance to those of Our servants who are righteous.

[19:65] وَمَا نَتَنَزَّلُ اِلَّا بِاَمْرِ رَبِّكَ‌ۚ لَهٗ مَا بَيْنَ اَيْدِيْنَا وَمَا خَلْفَنَا وَمَا بَيْنَ ذٰلِكَ‌ۚ وَمَا كَانَ رَبُّكَ نَسِيًّا‌ۚ‏
[19:65] ‘And we (angels) do not come down save by the command of thy Lord. To Him belongs all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between; and thy Lord is not forgetful.’

[19:66] رَّبُّ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الْاَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فَاعْبُدْهُ وَاصْطَبِرْ لِـعِبَادَتِهٖ‌ؕ هَلْ تَعْلَمُ لَهٗ سَمِيًّا‏
[19:66] He is the Lord of the heavens and the earth and of all that is between the two. Serve Him, therefore, and be steadfast in His service. Dost thou know any equal of His?

[19:67] وَيَقُوْلُ الْاِنْسَانُ ءَاِذَا مَا مِتُّ لَسَوْفَ اُخْرَجُ حَيًّا‏
[19:67] And says man, ‘What! when I am dead, shall I be brought forth alive?’

[19:68] اَوَلَا يَذْكُرُ الْاِنْسَانُ اَنَّا خَلَقْنٰهُ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَمْ يَكُ شَيْـًٔـا‏
[19:68] Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught?

[19:69] فَوَرَبِّكَ لَـنَحْشُرَنَّهُمْ وَالشَّيٰطِيْنَ ثُمَّ لَــنُحْضِرَنَّهُمْ حَوْلَ جَهَـنَّمَ جِثِيًّا‌ۚ‏
[19:69] And, by thy Lord, We shall assuredly gather them together, and the satans too; then shall We bring them on their knees around Hell.

[19:70] ثُمَّ لَـنَنْزِعَنَّ مِنْ كُلِّ شِيْعَةٍ اَيُّهُمْ اَشَدُّ عَلَى الرَّحْمٰنِ عِتِيًّا‌ۚ‏
[19:70] Then shall We certainly pick out, from every group, those of them who were most stubborn in rebellion against the Gracious God.

alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=19&verse=60

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

 

[agangbern]

An expert on the text would say that this is a “royal we”, I think.

“Royal we”? What is that? What is the origin of that and when was it first used?

 

[Lujack]

“Royal we”? What is that? What is the origin of that and when was it first used?

That’s an old one. Its even used in Genesis at one point (although most translations don’t put it that way). Kings and queens refer to themselves that way, although I’m not sure of its direct origin.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

This is rather common in the West, in my opinion; one writing a letter from a company or an istitutions would write “We inform you” while the writer is only an individual.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[agangbern]

Hi

This is rather common in the West, in my opinion; one writing a letter from a company or an istitutions would write “We inform you” while the writer is only an individual.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

When was a “royal we” first used? Who decided that it is a “royal we”? And what is his basis for saying that it is a “royal we”?

 

[agangbern]

That’s an old one. Its even used in Genesis at one point (although most translations don’t put it that way). Kings and queens refer to themselves that way, although I’m not sure of its direct origin.

But of the “We” in Genesis, the church does not teach that it is a “royal we”. Who has the authority to decide whether a “we” is royal or not?

 

[paarsurrey]

Majestic plural

Royal pronoun, the Royal ‘we’ or the Victorian ‘we’

The majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis in Latin) is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a monarch, bishop, pope, or university rector. It is also called the Royal pronoun, the Royal ‘we’ or the Victorian ‘we’. The more general word for the use of “we” to refer to oneself is nosism, from the Latin nos.[1]

The idea behind the pluralis maiestatis is that a monarch or other high official always speaks for his or her people.[citation needed] For example, the Basic Law of the Sultanate of Oman opens thus:

On the Issue of the Basic Law of the State We, Qaboos bin Said, Sultan of Oman…[2]
Famous examples of purported instances:

We are not amused. — Queen Victoria (in at least one account of this quotation, though, she was not speaking for herself alone, but for the ladies of the court.)[3]
In his abdication statement, Nicholas II of Russia uses the pluralis maiestatis liberally, as in “In agreement with the Imperial Duma, We have thought it well to renounce the Throne of the Russian Empire and to lay down the supreme power.”[4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

 

[MrDickerson]

*The Holy Quran : Chapter 19: Maryam مَریَم **

[19:1] بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
[19:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.

[19:2] كٓهٰيٰـعٓـصٓ‌ۚ‏
[19:2] Kaf Ha Ya ‘Ain Sad.

[19:3] ذِكْرُ رَحْمَتِ رَبِّكَ عَـبْدَهٗ زَكَرِيَّا ‌ۖ‌ۚ‏
[19:3] This is an account of the mercy of thy Lord shown to His servant, Zachariah.

[19:4] اِذْ نَادٰى رَبَّهٗ نِدَآءً خَفِيًّا‏
[19:4] When he called upon his Lord, a secret calling,

[19:5] قَالَ رَبِّ اِنِّىْ وَهَنَ الْعَظْمُ مِنِّىْ وَاشْتَعَلَ الرَّاْسُ شَيْبًا وَّلَمْ اَكُنْۢ بِدُعَآٮِٕكَ رَبِّ شَقِيًّا‏
[19:5] He said, ‘My Lord, the bones have indeed waxed feeble in me, and the head glistens with hoariness, but never, my Lord, have I been unblessed in my prayer to Thee.

[19:6] وَاِنِّىْ خِفْتُ الْمَوَالِىَ مِنْ وَّرَآءِىْ وَكَانَتِ امْرَاَتِىْ عَاقِرًا فَهَبْ لِىْ مِنْ لَّدُنْكَ وَلِيًّاۙ‏
[19:6] ‘And I fear my relations after me, and my wife is barren. Grant me, therefore, a successor from Thyself,

[19:7] يَّرِثُنِىْ وَيَرِثُ مِنْ اٰلِ يَعْقُوْبَ‌ وَاجْعَلْهُ رَبِّ رَضِيًّا‏
[19:7] ‘That he may be heir to me and to the House of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, well

[19:8] يٰزَكَرِيَّاۤ اِنَّا نُبَشِّرُكَ بِغُلٰم ۨاسْمُهٗ يَحْيٰىۙ لَمْ نَجْعَل لَّهٗ مِنْ قَبْلُ سَمِيًّا‏
[19:8] ‘O Zachariah, We give thee glad tidings of a son whose name shall be Yahya*. We have not made any one before him of that name.’

[19:9] قَالَ رَبِّ اَنّٰى يَكُوْنُ لِىْ غُلٰمٌ وَّكَانَتِ امْرَاَتِىْ عَاقِرًا وَّقَدْ بَلَـغْتُ مِنَ الْـكِبَرِ عِتِيًّا‏
[19:9] He said, ‘My Lord, how shall I have a son when my wife is barren and I have reached the extreme limit of old age?’

[19:10] قَالَ كَذٰلِكَ‌ۚ قَالَ رَبُّكَ هُوَ عَلَىَّ هَيِّنٌ وَّقَدْ خَلَقْتُكَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَمْ تَكُ شَيْـًٔـا‏
[19:10] He said, ‘So it is.’ But thy Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and indeed I created thee before, when thou wast nothing.’

Unquote
alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=19

I love Jesus, Mary*, John* the Baptist and Zachariah as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

PaarSurrey, why would we care what the Quran says??

 

[cthulhubryan]

“Royal we”? What is that? What is the origin of that and when was it first used?

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”(Genesis 1:26)

 

[Cluny]

Full accounts/teachings of Jesus’ life and Mary’s life as per Quran

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It doesn’t really matter WHAT the Koran says about Jesus or Mary or anybody or anything else, because the entire book is a pack of lies and the fantasies of a pedophile who dreamed of having sex with the Virgin Mary.

 

[Lujack]

Full accounts/teachings of Jesus’ life and Mary’s life as per Quran

---

It doesn’t really matter WHAT the Koran says about Jesus or Mary or anybody or anything else, because the entire book is a pack of lies and the fantasies of a pedophile who dreamed of having sex with the Virgin Mary.

What a good way to debate with someone.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by swariffin:

Please quote all teaching of Jesus and Mary from Quran. Not the selected verse based on your liking.

**The Holy Quran : Chapter 19: Maryam مَریَم **

[19:71] ثُمَّ لَـنَحْنُ اَعْلَمُ بِالَّذِيْنَ هُمْ اَوْلٰى بِهَا صِلِيًّا‏
[19:71] And surely, We know best those most deserving to be burned therein.

[19:72] وَاِنْ مِّنْکُمْ اِلَّا وَارِدُهَا‌ؕ كَانَ عَلٰى رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا‌ۚ‏
[19:72] And there is not one of you but will come to it. This is a fixed decree with thy Lord.

[19:73] ثُمَّ نُـنَجِّىْ الَّذِيْنَ اتَّقَوْا وَّنَذَرُ الظّٰلِمِيْنَ فِيْهَا جِثِيًّا‏
[19:73] Then We shall save the righteous and We shall leave the wrongdoers therein, on their knees.

[19:74] وَاِذَا تُتْلٰى عَلَيْهِمْ اٰيٰتُنَا بَيِّنٰتٍ قَالَ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا لِلَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْۤاۙ اَىُّ الْفَرِيْقَيْنِ خَيْرٌ مَّقَامًا وَّاَحْسَنُ نَدِيًّا‏
[19:74] And when Our manifest Signs are recited unto them, the disbelievers say to the believers, ‘Which of the two parties is better in respect of position and makes a more impressive assembly?’

[19:75] وَكَمْ اَهْلَكْنَا قَبْلَهُمْ مِّنْ قَرْنٍ هُمْ اَحْسَنُ اَثَاثًا وَّرِءْيًا‏
[19:75] And how many generations have We destroyed before them, who were better off in wealth and better in outward show!

[19:76] قُلْ مَنْ كَانَ فِىْ الضَّلٰلَةِ فَلْيَمْدُدْ لَهُ الرَّحْمٰنُ مَدًّا‌ ‌ۚ حَتّٰٓى اِذَا رَاَوْا مَا يُوْعَدُوْنَ اِمَّا الْعَذَابَ وَاِمَّا السَّاعَةَ ؕ فَسَيَـعْلَمُوْنَ مَنْ هُوَ شَرٌّ مَّكَانًا وَّاَضْعَفُ جُنْدًا‏
[19:76] Say, ‘The Gracious God does give those who are in error long respite until, when they will see that with which they are threatened — whether it be punishment or the Hour — they will realize who is worse in respect of position and who is weaker in forces.

[19:77] وَيَزِيْدُ اللّٰهُ الَّذِيْنَ اهْتَدَوْا هُدًى‌ؕ وَالْبٰقِيٰتُ الصّٰلِحٰتُ خَيْرٌ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ ثَوَابًا وَّخَيْرٌ مَّرَدًّا‏
[19:77] ‘And Allah increases in guidance those who follow guidance. And the good works that endure are best in sight of thy Lord as reward, and best as resort.’

[19:78] اَفَرَءَيْتَ الَّذِىْ كَفَرَ بِاٰيٰتِنَا وَقَالَ لَاُوْتَيَنَّ مَالاً وَّوَلَدًاؕ‏
[19:78] Hast thou then seen him who disbelieves in Our Signs, and says, ‘I shall certainly be given wealth and children?’

[19:79] اَطَّلَعَ الْغَيْبَ اَمِ اتَّخَذَ عِنْدَ الرَّحْمٰنِ عَهْدًاۙ‏
[19:79] Has he become acquainted with the unseen or has he taken a promise from the Gracious God?

[19:80] كَلَّا‌ ؕ سَنَكْتُبُ مَا يَقُوْلُ وَنَمُدُّ لَهٗ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ مَدًّاۙ‏
[19:80] Nay! We shall note down what he says and We shall greatly prolong for him the punishment.

alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=19&verse=70

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Don’t worry Paar, I am reading your posting and I am looking for whether or not you miss something, or omit some translation. You did that once, you know.

 

[swariffin]

[19:21]
[19:29] يٰۤاُخْتَ هٰرُوْنَ مَا كَانَ اَبُوْكِ امْرَاَ سَوْءٍ وَّمَا كَانَتْ اُمُّكِ بَغِيًّا‌ ۖ‌ۚ‏
[19:29] ‘O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!’

OK Paar, Let us begin, and make sure that you don’t let my question unanswered, as to be per adult discussion, and without short-tempered.

Why Mary is called the sister of Aaron while they are separated by 1.500 years? I know what Planten has answered me, but I hope that you have a better explanation than him.

Waiting for your answer.

I love Mohammad too in the name of humanity, and because Jesus taught me to do so.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
[19:21]
[19:29] يٰۤاُخْتَ هٰرُوْنَ مَا كَانَ اَبُوْكِ امْرَاَ سَوْءٍ وَّمَا كَانَتْ اُمُّكِ بَغِيًّا‌ ۖ‌ۚ‏
[19:29] ‘O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!’

OK Paar, Let us begin, and make sure that you don’t let my question unanswered, as to be per adult discussion, and without short-tempered.

Why Mary is called the sister of Aaron while they are separated by 1.500 years? I know what Planten has answered me, but I hope that you have a better explanation than him.

Waiting for your answer.

I love Mohammad too in the name of humanity, and because Jesus taught me to do so.

Hi

I don’t like a debate, I have mentioned it so many times here. I will prefer a peaceful group discussion, always.

I don’t write to win; I write in search of truth and to express the truth.

Kindly quote the answer from planten, I will see if it was OK then I don’t have a superiority complex.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

 

[rob179ny]

No, why don`t you say I love Muhammad AS I love Buddha and Krishna?

Because in her claim she is trying to be deceptive because she is in a Catholic site… so she makes this claims so that someone would listen to her.

 

[agangbern]

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”(Genesis 1:26)

Where is the so-called “royal we” there? None! Unless maybe you are telling me that “us” means “we”. Nevertheless, if it should be forced that “us” means “we”, still there is no basis to say that it is a “royal we”.

 

[agangbern]

Hi

I don’t like a debate, I have mentioned it so many times here. I will prefer a peaceful group discussion, always.

I don’t write to win; I write in search of truth and to express the truth.

Kindly quote the answer from planten, I will see if it was OK then I don’t have a superiority complex.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Paarsurrey, I don’t see a debate going on in here, so don’t be afraid of the “dark”.

You proposed ideas here, particularly, you presented ideas from your Quran. It is only fair that posters shall scrutinize such contents of your Quran. And your so-called “royal we” is one that is holding my curiosity here. That is why you have a duty to answer all valid questions raised regarding that “royal we”. It is not debating with you at all. It is simply digging into the depths of your knowledge of what you are talking.

 

[Caul]

Here iw ould like to appreciate your all views and want to say thanks to all for giving nice information.

 

[solayan]

Where is the so-called “royal we” there? None! Unless maybe you are telling me that “us” means “we”. Nevertheless, if it should be forced that “us” means “we”, still there is no basis to say that it is a “royal we”.

Actually, ‘us’ and ‘we’ are the same word. They are both forms of the first person plural pronoun. Pronouns change depending on how they function in a sentence and some of them change a lot (like we-us I-me he-him).

That said, I’m not sure if the beginning of Genesis is using what we would term today as the “royal we” or not. I think it would probably depend on what the Hebrew original said.

Okay, grammar-nerd moment over. Please resume your regularly scheduled discussion.