M
MSNAV
Guest
Hello,
As a recent “revert” to the Catholic church I have been studying canon law as it applies to me and my wife. In general I will usually find things and say, “you know looking at it that way it is wrong and I will stop doing that immediately” things like downloading music from pirate sites, honestly never really thought about it as stealing, was corrected now I see it is, stopped won’t do it again, learned a valuable lesson about what is right vs what is common in society.
My road has taken me down other venues including moral sex in a marriage.
Without much to do. Here my question. I was reading that the only permissible way for a male to provide a semen sample for a medical test is via natural sex with his wife using a perforated condom.
I have some major issues with this even though it does not apply to me. 1) What the man is being asked to do is provide a medical sample of seminal fluid for medical testing, let me tell you this is not like what you see on tv (I am a physician not someone who has had to go through this). This goes on in a sterile room and in doctors office, or some couples decide to retrieve the sample at home. 2) I am sure even as hard as a couple would try to make this “fun” its really just to cut through the awkwardness, no one would voluntarily “deposit a sample” for fun when they are in a loving sexual relationship with their wife. The end result of what the couple is trying to do is have a baby. Before the other chime in, there are many things we can learn from seminal fluid including possible allergens that will cause incompatibility with the female, motility issues, count, infection etc. Also, if it is deemed a strictly motility issue a sample obtain correctly can be used for IUI which the church has deemed executable.
Looking at Matthew 22:35–4 :Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
How does a married loving couple violate either of these two commandments in any sense by providing a Semen sample either by solo or mutual stimulation.
Here is another real life scenario: As children develop specifically males, sometimes the develop testicular tumors or ductal tumors , or fluid collections. When a mass involves the tubes or the testicle surgery is performed to remove it (trying to preserve fertility) as opposed to removing the entire testicle or tube. It is common practice to have the teenager produce a pre and post op sample. The sample comparison would show if the surgeon did his job, or if another surgery needs to be done to find a blockage or leak in the tube.
Now picture a 11 year has to be told this in front of his parents. This 11 year besides being eternal embarrassed by the fact he has to do this but also his parents know he has to do this… now let also not let him get off by telling him this thing he has to do for medical procedure which extremely embarrassing to him in the first place is also a sin, the alternative being not having the mass or tube evaluate with the risk it being cancer.
How is this right. None of these people are masturbating for pleasure.
In the case of the couple they are trying to bring life into the world.
Moral Sex must, from what i understand, take place between to loving adults, both consenting, for the purpose of procreation. This couple meets the requirements, they are married, they have both consented to the act, and the act is to be able to achieve procreation.
There should be nothing wrong with this, I can see the argument coming out that semen has to enter the vagina or its immoral. In this case why is this not immoral
Discuss
As a recent “revert” to the Catholic church I have been studying canon law as it applies to me and my wife. In general I will usually find things and say, “you know looking at it that way it is wrong and I will stop doing that immediately” things like downloading music from pirate sites, honestly never really thought about it as stealing, was corrected now I see it is, stopped won’t do it again, learned a valuable lesson about what is right vs what is common in society.
My road has taken me down other venues including moral sex in a marriage.
Without much to do. Here my question. I was reading that the only permissible way for a male to provide a semen sample for a medical test is via natural sex with his wife using a perforated condom.
I have some major issues with this even though it does not apply to me. 1) What the man is being asked to do is provide a medical sample of seminal fluid for medical testing, let me tell you this is not like what you see on tv (I am a physician not someone who has had to go through this). This goes on in a sterile room and in doctors office, or some couples decide to retrieve the sample at home. 2) I am sure even as hard as a couple would try to make this “fun” its really just to cut through the awkwardness, no one would voluntarily “deposit a sample” for fun when they are in a loving sexual relationship with their wife. The end result of what the couple is trying to do is have a baby. Before the other chime in, there are many things we can learn from seminal fluid including possible allergens that will cause incompatibility with the female, motility issues, count, infection etc. Also, if it is deemed a strictly motility issue a sample obtain correctly can be used for IUI which the church has deemed executable.
Looking at Matthew 22:35–4 :Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
How does a married loving couple violate either of these two commandments in any sense by providing a Semen sample either by solo or mutual stimulation.
Here is another real life scenario: As children develop specifically males, sometimes the develop testicular tumors or ductal tumors , or fluid collections. When a mass involves the tubes or the testicle surgery is performed to remove it (trying to preserve fertility) as opposed to removing the entire testicle or tube. It is common practice to have the teenager produce a pre and post op sample. The sample comparison would show if the surgeon did his job, or if another surgery needs to be done to find a blockage or leak in the tube.
Now picture a 11 year has to be told this in front of his parents. This 11 year besides being eternal embarrassed by the fact he has to do this but also his parents know he has to do this… now let also not let him get off by telling him this thing he has to do for medical procedure which extremely embarrassing to him in the first place is also a sin, the alternative being not having the mass or tube evaluate with the risk it being cancer.
How is this right. None of these people are masturbating for pleasure.
In the case of the couple they are trying to bring life into the world.
Moral Sex must, from what i understand, take place between to loving adults, both consenting, for the purpose of procreation. This couple meets the requirements, they are married, they have both consented to the act, and the act is to be able to achieve procreation.
There should be nothing wrong with this, I can see the argument coming out that semen has to enter the vagina or its immoral. In this case why is this not immoral
Discuss
Rates have dropped steadily in half since the peak in 1980 to now. They even are at or below Roe v Wade, I find it hard to believe people have been having less sex in that time period.