Adult question. please take children away from comp before opening thread

[RaymondJensen]

If a man is gay or bi, and has had affairs with other men in the past, is he then not allowed into seminary school? I ask this because I am bi, and I have had affairs with two men in the past. I regreat doing them now and it was before I came back to the church (aka while I was disbelieving God). I ask because I’m thinking of priesthood, and with the stigmata of the church of being “pedophiliactic” (as if) would I then be denied entry? As of this date I have refrained from sex with anyone for atleast two years. I’ve had oppertunities to ask other men to be my lover, but I easily said no to those thoughts and instead asked to be good brotherly friends. Would I be denied access, or be given exemption, or there is no need for exemption if the church allows gays to be priests already? (I mean if your gay the best thing to do is be celibate and it isn’t our place to decide who’s got the calling based on orientation as long as they recognize and believe the church’s teachings on it and everything else)

 

[JimG]

Here is the Vatican instruction.

 

[RaymondJensen]

thank you.

 

[manualman]

This is a brutally tough issue to comprehend if you are coming at it cold turkey. And I may just be too blunt to explain it well. Bear with me.

Our culture today treats gender as if it is something merely coincidental about us. But as catholics, we know that God created us not merely as animals, nor as spirits merely trapped in a body, but as a UNION of body and soul. Our bodies are as much a part of who we ARE as our souls are. Not in specifics, but in their nature. (For example a person born deaf in no way has a different nature than those born WITH hearing).

Our culture has embraced the idea that homo/bisexual orientation is a fixed thing in all cases. But that is very much an assertion up for debate. The reality is that people are complex in specifics, but the NATURE of humanity is to be either male or female and that these identities have divinely created purposes. Just as the deaf man lacks the ability to do everything that those with hearing has, but in no way is WORTH less than a man with hearing, so too for those who have “deep seated, disordered” homo/bisexual tendencies. The priesthood is specifically a spiritual fatherhood and is not suitable for someone who has a sexual identity problem.

This is hard medicine to hear in our time. So too in the deaf subculture I have heard of occasions where deaf parents gave birth to a deaf child, that early surgery COULD correct the defect and restore partial hearing, but the parents REFUSED it because they rejected the very idea that being deaf was worse than being able to hear. Not that all those with a same sex attraction (SSA) can be “cured”, but that it is a mistaken notion to not even consider the condition a problem.

Every human on earth is fallen in some way. We ALL have ‘disordered inclinations.’ In the big picture, SSA is no particularly better or worse than an inclination to lie, steal or be promiscuous with the opposite sex. But because the priesthood is specifically a parental role, such a sexual identity role (if truly deep seated) is a disqualifier for the identity (not just a job) of priest.

Mind you that the Church DESPERATELY needs religious brothers and monks. As these roles are less about spiritual fatherhood and more about prayer and service, perhaps God is calling you in that direction?

 

[RaymondJensen]

but i recognize i’m a guy. i mean i don’t claim to be female so i do i still have a sex identification problem? also I swore off men like i said. i identify myself as male. though i’m addracted to both sexes i would prefer neither since i feel like i’m being called. i haven’t had sex with a man or woman in years. i haven’t even been in a relationship because i wanted to make sure that i wouldn’t have to dump a girl because i realized i had the call. does this still mean i’m a poor or a no candidate?

 

[archangel04]

I would suggest contacting your local diocesis and speaking with a spiritual director, they have the information you need. They might allow you to go into seminary, but would be watched very carefully and there is no gurantee you will be ordained.

 

[RaymondJensen]

The way i see it if it’s God’s will then i’ll be ordained if I work at it. If it’s not God’s will then i’ll move on.

 

[manualman]

I’m not qualified to answer the question. It really depends on whether you feel that your sexual attraction to guys is “deep seated” or potentially a transitory thing caused by a pothole somewhere on the road to sexual maturity. If you’ve not only resisted the temptations for years, but found yourself less and less even tempted, you could be a candidate as I understand it.

On the other hand if your experience around muscular and fit guys is like the experience of hetero guys around a woman with exposed cleavage… Well, in any case, get a good priestly spiritual director. Most dioceses have a vocations director who can set you up with one.

God bless and protect you.

 

[RaymondJensen]

Well let me put it this way. I’m less attracted to men now then I was last month which was less then the month before that. This started a while ago but the dimming of attraction was slow at first and has been more rapid.

 

[Neithan]

Well let me put it this way. I’m less attracted to men now then I was last month which was less then the month before that. This started a while ago but the dimming of attraction was slow at first and has been more rapid.

If you self-identify as a bisexual and deal with persistent attractions to men, that would be an impediment to Holy Orders as per the instruction. It’s not just homosexual behaviour but the very affectivity that poses problems for the priesthood.

My personal opinion (and it might not be worth much) is that Catholics with SSA who feel a call to priesthood or the religious life would do best to join a mixed community of consecrated lay men and women. The traditional orders of cloistered, or mendicant men or women only might also be problematic. Mixed communities seems best.

 

[AcolyteLector]

If a man is gay or bi, and has had affairs with other men in the past, is he then not allowed into seminary school? I ask this because I am bi, and I have had affairs with two men in the past. I regreat doing them now and it was before I came back to the church (aka while I was disbelieving God). I ask because I’m thinking of priesthood, and with the stigmata of the church of being “pedophiliactic” (as if) would I then be denied entry? As of this date I have refrained from sex with anyone for atleast two years. I’ve had oppertunities to ask other men to be my lover, but I easily said no to those thoughts and instead asked to be good brotherly friends. Would I be denied access, or be given exemption, or there is no need for exemption if the church allows gays to be priests already? (I mean if your gay the best thing to do is be celibate and it isn’t our place to decide who’s got the calling based on orientation as long as they recognize and believe the church’s teachings on it and everything else)

I went to an extremely liberal ‘early college’ program. I knew a lot of self-professed SSA, both gay and bisexual. Its been about four years since I was in this program. Nearly all of the people who identified only as ‘bisexual’ are now openly homosexual.

A good question, without regard to questions of sexual continence and your stated ‘self-restraint’ in terms of not accepting same-sex lovers, would be: has this ‘rapidly’ receding attraction for men been accompanied by a concomitant increase in your attraction for women?

I know this is counter-intuitive (because you’re aiming at celibacy, I take it), but if not, then…based on my caveman-esque X/Y-axis understanding of sexuality… you might simply be forcibly ‘de-sexualizing’ your interactions. And not becoming ‘less homosexual’ but simply ‘less sexual’. And–given the current climate, without even considering the Holy See’s explicit position–it might not be thee best idea for you to discern for a lot of vocations.

Just my .02$, good luck on your journey and God bless…