Adult Son

[ynotzap]

I have three sons and one daughter, and every one of them has had sexual affairs, and even lived together.with the opposite sex There have been a lot of heart aches for them and my wife and I. But they know where we stand, and I believe they respect that. We do not tolerate their actions at home.
But there is more to the story. We as catholics try our best to guide our children. We do all the things we were taught to do. eg. Have our children Baptized, make first Communion, send them to Catholic schools, if we can afford it. We try our best to teach them Christianity by example, and efforts to communicate these truths to our children.

We assume that because we follow all the rules as christian parents, and do all the formal things required by o ur faith, that now we have a christian child. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Our children can have all of the training, and truth, and advice, and love, and still not be converted to Christianity. Conversion is necessary to experience christian behavior from our children. It is turning from sin and turning to Christ, it is then that the grace of conversion takes hold. It is then that the child will behave as a christian. He needs the grace of God, which comes through Jesus Christ alone. We do not pass on the faith, nor give it by our example, we just point the way to Jesus. All these mis-behavi ng children can not give what they do not have, the grace of God. Our faith tells us the Jesus came to destroy the works of Satan, and what the kids our doing are the works of Satan working through their rebellion, and uncontrolled passion, feelings have them by the throat, and without the grace of God, they are helpless. Be strong, and assert your stand, use tough love if needed, but love them unconditionally. They will hit the wall of human fallibility and fracture, be there to pick-up the pieces,do what is necessary to maintain peace and stability in the family. When they do not listen to those that love them, then will have to learn the hard way, through painful experience. Pray for them, love them, do not enable them. And it wouldn’t hurt to play the Prophet, that Jesus is the answer, plant the seed in their minds. They might differ , but they won’t be able to deny you, because that’s what God wants you to do, witness to Him. So many parents have this same problem. Society has made it so easy to do wrong, and Satan is active, believe it.

 

[aicirt]

It’s not totally clear that the OP is helping much with college–it sounds like he’s working a lot. But even if they were helping a lot with college, really? Just out of the blue announce that no matter what he does to straighten up and fly right, you won’t help with college anymore? That would be very unwise, in my opinion, especially if previous conversations had not contained any warnings, just mild expressions of disapproval (which is what it sounds like has happened).

There is a lot of middle ground available between A) continuing to let him do what he’s doing indefinitely and B) cutting him off without a dime no matter what he tries to do to fix things.

I’ve thought about what you wrote. By the time I was 17, I had an excellent take on my mother’s reaction should I ever do what this young man is doing. All heck would have broken out. It was not something that would ever have been tolerated and it did not need to be discussed because I knew her and knew her rules and what constitues sin… If some guy’s family told me I could spend every night in their home, I would have thought they were nuts.

I went to Catholic school for 12 years then to a state college. The college required parents to sign on just what the kids could do while living there: go off campus, go into the neighboring town, go to a roommate’s home, etc. Sounds weird by today’s lack of supervision, doesn’t it?

I’m just surprised that parents refuse to see their kids as adults at 21. If he doesn’t know the rules by now, he isn’t going to. And I’m not bringing religion into this because that isn’t going to matter to him right now. The hormones are flowing, he’s got free pass at the girl friend’s house, use of a car, and he has no responsibilites. All of this is way cool. Can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

[Xantippe]

I’ve thought about what you wrote. By the time I was 17, I had an excellent take on my mother’s reaction should I ever do what this young man is doing. All heck would have broken out. It was not something that would ever have been tolerated and it did not need to be discussed because I knew her and knew her rules and what constitues sin… If some guy’s family told me I could spend every night in their home, I would have thought they were nuts.

I went to Catholic school for 12 years then to a state college. The college required parents to sign on just what the kids could do while living there: go off campus, go into the neighboring town, go to a roommate’s home, etc. Sounds weird by today’s lack of supervision, doesn’t it?

I’m just surprised that parents refuse to see their kids as adults at 21. If he doesn’t know the rules by now, he isn’t going to. And I’m not bringing religion into this because that isn’t going to matter to him right now. The hormones are flowing, he’s got free pass at the girl friend’s house, use of a car, and he has no responsibilites. All of this is way cool. Can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.

So, if he came back home, kept a curfew, did chores with a smile, and otherwise led a blameless life for the rest of this summer, you’d cut off his college funding, even if he just had one more year left? Pretty cold.

What kind of motivation does that give the kid to straighten out if no matter what he does, he’s out on his ear? We’ve got to think about the incentive structures we’re creating.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

For the sake of your younger children especially, he has to pack his bags. Your younger children will see this and it will impact them in a strong way, They will be 100% clear on how you stand on sex outside of marriage. You will never have to hear “but you let my older brother do it” when they want to spend the night at someone’s house.

He is an adult! You don’t have to ask him to leave in a mean way! Simply say that he is an adult free to make his choices. Unfortunately the lifestyle he has chosen impacts your family in a negative way, therefore he will have to make other living arrangements. Be firm, tell him he has to stop spending the night or you are giving him three days notice to find somewhere else

OK, I totally get you, not even objecting to anything else you said there… but 3 days notice is a mean way. As a general rule of thumb, if the law says we owe something to tenants (who may be strangers to us) than chances are we owe the same to our family. So if a stranger in your area needs to get 30 days notice, at least give that to your own child…

 

[schaeffer]

I was one of six children raised in a devoted Catholic household.

Between the six of us I assure you that my parents dealt with every permutation of young adults going their own way when it came to relationships, education, living arrangements, religion and types of entertainment.

They held their ground, as we expected them to. We did what we were going to do, understanding that they would not ‘support’ what went against their faith.

All six of us are still in close contact with them, love and honor them, and respect them. None of us hate them for standing their ground, even if we have made decisions that we fully understand they do not support or honor.

Oh how I would hate myself if I had tried to demand my parents to be other than who they are to suit my desire. All adults need to be willing to stand by and support their own lifestyle, and give others the respect they themselves want.

I assume the son knows full well where the parents stand and will not be surprised if the parents stay true to the faith they brought him up in. It’s as simple as that.

And I know the parents can do what they need to do with respect and love as well.

What I do think is important is that the parents speak as adult to adult. They are doing what they believe to be right in their faith.

If they come at it as trying to control his decisions, I think no good will come of it. He is an adult and in charge of his own decisions, and thus will be able to respect their decision.

Saying “we aren’t going to pay tuition if we think you are sleeping with your girl friend” sounds like manipulation.

(I don’t think the OP said that)

Parents are free to pay or not pay as they see fit, and to set any attachments to that agreement that they see fit, but I would be wary ( and I have three grown children of my own) on making tuition payment based on behaviors that we cannot truly know the nature of. I might tell my child I will pay as long as they go full time, work towards a specific degree and maintain a B average or greater…but it would be impossible for me to truly police it saying “I won’t pay if you are having sex, dating someone of another race, or keep playing video games that are not consistent with my faith”

I cannot know what they are doing 24/7 or the nature of their intimate relationships.

Tuition is a gift I can or cannot afford to make and I would not attach it to whether or not they carry out their intimate relationships according to my belief system. I see them as separate issues.

I understand that others feel differently.

 

[aicirt]

So, if he came back home, kept a curfew, did chores with a smile, and otherwise led a blameless life for the rest of this summer, you’d cut off his college funding, even if he just had one more year left? Pretty cold.

What kind of motivation does that give the kid to straighten out if no matter what he does, he’s out on his ear? We’ve got to think about the incentive structures we’re creating.

21 is NOT a kid. Somewhere parents have to accept this fact. No parent is required to give their offspring a college education. Many pay for college themselves. Many are fighting in wars at his age. And many have kids at his age. Right now he has a very good chance of becoming a member of the last group. What happens if she gets pregnant? Are Mom and Dad going to pick-up for the college, contribute to the little wedding, and help support the little family while they’re living with her people? Because that is where this is heading.

IF the OP tells him he’s on his own, sonny wil head for the gf’s house. Now he’s going to be a permanent member of that household. Think they wouldn’t want him to pay them R and B? He’s just not spending his nights there, he’s living there and increasing their expenses.

And the OP might tell his son that this family is bizarre. Who in their right mind invites a man to be in their home with their daughter every night. There are nitwit women who want to be young grandmoms as well as girls who want marriage because they don’t know what else to do. Why? Who knows?

The possiblity of becoming a Dad at 21 without a job, without having completed college, and in debt to his gf’s family might be a very good incentive to change while he still can.

 

[Xantippe]

What happens if she gets pregnant? Are Mom and Dad going to pick-up for the college, contribute to the little wedding, and help support the little family while they’re living with her people? Because that is where this is heading.

IF the OP tells him he’s on his own, sonny wil head for the gf’s house. Now he’s going to be a permanent member of that household. Think they wouldn’t want him to pay them R and B? He’s just not spending his nights there, he’s living there and increasing their expenses.

And the OP might tell his son that this family is bizarre. Who in their right mind invites a man to be in their home with their daughter every night. There are nitwit women who want to be young grandmoms as well as girls who want marriage because they don’t know what else to do. Why? Who knows?

The possiblity of becoming a Dad at 21 without a job, without having completed college, and in debt to his gf’s family might be a very good incentive to change while he still can.

Alternately, GF gets pregnant and has an abortion (and maybe a couple of them), but the OP never finds out about the pregnancies because the relationship is in tatters. We can tell lots of “what if” stories.

We don’t really know what the OP’s son has told the GF’s parents about his family life. Maybe he’s said that they’re unreasonably strict, it’s really crowded at home, he doesn’t have a room of his own, his younger siblings are always in his stuff, he doesn’t have a minute’s peace, etc.

More space and peace and quiet may actually be the main attraction of the GF’s house, rather than sex. Sex is possible in the afternoon, too, or on lunch breaks. It’s only us old married people who believe sex is only possible between 10PM and 1 AM.

I don’t see the point of offering the son the following choice:

1. You can pay for your own college and living expenses and walk the straight and narrow.

or

1. You can pay for your own college and living expenses and live with your girlfriend this summer.

Why not offer a third choice?

1. You can live at home this summer, keep a curfew, do chores, and we will pay for your last year of college.

We have to be willing to fund the behaviors we want to see (according to our means, of course).

 

[aicirt]

Alternately, GF gets pregnant and has an abortion (and maybe a couple of them), but the OP never finds out about the pregnancies because the relationship is in tatters. We can tell lots of “what if” stories.

We don’t really know what the OP’s son has told the GF’s parents about his family life. Maybe he’s said that they’re unreasonably strict, it’s really crowded at home, he doesn’t have a room of his own, his younger siblings are always in his stuff, he doesn’t have a minute’s peace, etc.

More space and peace and quiet may actually be the main attraction of the GF’s house, rather than sex. Sex is possible in the afternoon, too, or on lunch breaks. It’s only us old married people who believe sex is only possible between 10PM and 1 AM.

I don’t see the point of offering the son the following choice:

1. You can pay for your own college and living expenses and walk the straight and narrow.

or

1. You can pay for your own college and living expenses and live with your girlfriend this summer.

Why not offer a third choice?

1. You can live at home this summer, keep a curfew, do chores, and we will pay for your last year of college.

We have to be willing to fund the behaviors we want to see (according to our means, of course).

Could you answer this question: Do you think it is reasonable for parents of a girl to invite a 21 yr. old man to stay over in their home every night?

 

[Xantippe]

Could you answer this question: Do you think it is reasonable for parents of a girl to invite a 21 yr. old man to stay over in their home every night?

There are lots of possible circumstances.

1. The 21-year-old is a fiance.
2. The 21-year-old is a temporary house guest.
3. The 21-year-old is a relative.
4. The 21-year-old needs temporary shelter from a fire or natural disaster (like Katrina).
5. The 21-year-old is a childhood friend.

 

[Xantippe]

aicirt,

Why is it so unreasonable to suggest that the OP allow the son to come back home for the summer and fund college for a final year if the son does chores, keeps a curfew, and is working full-time?

Why is it unreasonable to suggest that the OP leave the door open for the son to reconcile with the family?

There is no Catholic teaching that says that we are obligated to boot out young adult children, change the locks, and not give any future financial support the moment they err, even if they mend their ways.

 

[aicirt]

There are lots of possible circumstances.

1. The 21-year-old is a fiance.
2. The 21-year-old is a temporary house guest.
3. The 21-year-old is a relative.
4. The 21-year-old needs temporary shelter from a fire or natural disaster (like Katrina).
5. The 21-year-old is a childhood friend.

Xantippe, none of the above is applicable to this situation. And you have not answered the question.

If you have a daughter who is seeing a man, would you invite any man to spend his nights in your home when he has a home of his own?

And if you have a son, how would you feel if the girl’s family offered this to your son?

 

[aicirt]

aicirt,

Why is it so unreasonable to suggest that the OP allow the son to come back home for the summer and fund college for a final year if the son does chores, keeps a curfew, and is working full-time?

Why is it unreasonable to suggest that the OP leave the door open for the son to reconcile with the family?

There is no Catholic teaching that says that we are obligated to boot out young adult children, change the locks, and not give any future financial support the moment they err, even if they mend their ways.

From what has been said by the OP, there has been no estrangement from the family. He still comes to dinner, gets his meals, has his clothes done and heads out to the gf’s house. He is having a very agreeable life. However, the parents can’t be seen as condoning what he is doing. There are younger siblings in this home. He is an adult and should be treated as an adult because he is one…young, yes, but an adult nevertheless.

A 21 yr. old can be seeing a girl and get her pregnant. Things happen. I realize that. But in this case, he has really put this in their faces. He is almost challenging them with, “What’s are you gonna do about it?”

The parents are upset, and I’d be too, because this is a situtation that is an occassion of sin. You don’t put yourself there as he’s doing every night. BUT…he’s an adult. He gets to make decisions and the parents get to make them too.

 

[Xantippe]

Xantippe, none of the above is applicable to this situation. And you have not answered the question.

If you have a daughter who is seeing a man, would you invite any man to spend his nights in your home when he has a home of his own?

And if you have a son, how would you feel if the girl’s family offered this to your son?

You asked, “Do you think it is reasonable for parents of a girl to invite a 21 yr. old man to stay over in their home every night?” and I gave a list of circumstances under which it wasn’t unreasonable. You didn’t ask, “Is it reasonable for the OP’s GF’s parents to host him every night?” which is a very different question. I don’t know the answer to that question, because I don’t know what the OP’s son has told the GF’s parents. They may be making a reasonable decision based on what he has told them (he might, for instance, have told them that his parents are abusive). Or maybe the OP’s house is so crowded and/or busy and/or loud that the son is simply more comfortable in a house with fewer people in it. The GF’s parents may be able to offer him a room of his own, for instance. We don’t really know what is going on at the other house. It actually is not all that uncommon, when there is a warm relationship with a GF or BF parents and home is less congenial for whatever reason, for a young adult to spend huge amounts of time at a significant other’s home, to have a good relationship with the significant other’s parents, and to feel comfortable there, which would be not a be a bad thing if the OP’s son is serious about his GF. The OP’s son may be engaged (or practically engaged) to his girlfriend–that would not be unexpected at his age. He is, as you’ve mentioned a few times, 21 years old. His long-term intentions may be quite honorable, even if he may be jumping the gun with regard to overnight stays.

Again, why is it necessary to close the door to the son’s return and to discontinue college funding even if he returns, does chores, and keeps curfew throughout the summer? Why is that a good idea and in what way would that improve their relationship with their son and his future prospects (both with regard to the practice of his faith and with regard to future earnings)? Surely, if we want him to spend less time at the other house and to keep the relationship with the GF from getting too serious too fast, it’s a good idea to make sure he knows he’s welcome at home.

Kicking him out and cutting off his college funding is essentially tying him up with ribbons and handing him to the other family. Any normal red-blooded young man is going to react to that treatment by pulling away from his family of origin and immersing himself in the life of the family that treats him like family. As the saying goes, “a son is a son until he takes a wife, but a daughter is a daughter for the rest of your life.” I don’t think it has to be that way, but kicking him out and cutting off his college funding no matter how he makes amends pretty much guarantees that result.

 

[Xantippe]

From what has been said by the OP, there has been no estrangement from the family. He still comes to dinner, gets his meals, has his clothes done and heads out to the gf’s house. He is having a very agreeable life. However, the parents can’t be seen as condoning what he is doing. There are younger siblings in this home. He is an adult and should be treated as an adult because he is one…young, yes, but an adult nevertheless.

A 21 yr. old can be seeing a girl and get her pregnant. Things happen. I realize that. But in this case, he has really put this in their faces. He is almost challenging them with, “What’s are you gonna do about it?”

The parents are upset, and I’d be too, because this is a situtation that is an occassion of sin. You don’t put yourself there as he’s doing every night. BUT…he’s an adult. He gets to make decisions and the parents get to make them too.

From the OP’s description, it sounds like the son is home very briefly and heads back to his GF’s home as quickly as possible, dodging interactions with his family. It sounds to me like estrangement, or something very close to it.

Sure, the parents get to make decisions, but I think abruptly kicking him out and cutting off college funding with no possibility for him to make amends would be a bad decision, particularly given their previous muted response. They should offer him the opportunity to continue to have home privileges and college funding by 1) keeping a curfew and 2) contributing to the family with chores. They have not had that conversation yet and I think it would be a bad idea to impose consequences without explaining how he could avoid those consequences.

 

[aicirt]

Think it would be helpful if the OP added some info rather than the two of us:slapfight: arguing.

So let’s agree to continue after he returns.

 

[Giannawannabe]

I know you are afraid that your son will leave the Catholic church permanently, that is a fear we all have. You are not alone.

The point is, you cannot parent out of FEAR. Fear is what satan wants you to feel, fear is not of God. God is the God of truth, and the truth is going to be your strength. You need to approach this from a position of strength. You need to be strong for your younger children, watching what their older brother is doing is powerful, believe me you cannot let this happen.

Be honest with your son. It is okay to change your mind. Tell him, “I told you before that I wouldn’t draw the hard line but unfortunately I have to change my mind as I can see I made a mistake. I respect your decision to live your lifestyle as an adult, but I have to do what is best for my younger children. I cannot support an adult living this lifestyle here. You have three days notice to find somewhere else to live I hope you understand.”

Your son will not be happy but he will respect you in the end and so will your other children. It is people that are wishy-washy that most of use lose respect for, it is the people that stand their ground that we can count on that we all respect right? Your son has his guardian angel who loves him deeply, don’t dismiss that. HIs guardian angel is doing all that he can to guard, guide and protect your son. I know the pain you are going through. Turn to St. Monica for intercessory prayers she had a son that went astray for many years. I will pray for you too, please take care as best as you can, God

I completely agree and have had to do this myself. In actuality we drew up a contract with 20 y.o daughter and she signed it. When challenged with the fact that she was not adhering to contract…sleeping at boyfriend house, skipping Mass in very open manner to younger sibs, lying, etc. she decided to move out abruptly. Unfortunately, you need to check state laws as I discovered here that if you allow an adult…your child or any other adult…to live in your home, you are required by law to give them 30 days notice. While they live in your home, they can do WHATEVER they wish (if legal). otherwise, you must start eviction proceedings. crazy, huh? This is the reason for drawing up a contract.

 

[BillP]

For the sake of your younger children especially, he has to pack his bags. Your younger children will see this and it will impact them in a strong way, They will be 100% clear on how you stand on sex outside of marriage. You will never have to hear “but you let my older brother do it” when they want to spend the night at someone’s house.

Well they’ll be 100% sure on one thing. That the OPs love for their children is conditional upon their good behavior and that the OP will use material goods to coerce them.

And the OP will also be communicating to their grown son that they have no respect for him as an adult and still feel entitled to dictate his choices to him. A two-fer!!

As a bonus, the OP will probably irreparably harm their relationship with their son (and perhaps their future DIL and the mother of their grandkids).

Other than that, it was GREAT advice.

 

[Giannawannabe]

In addition, others that are suggesting that a 30-day notice is required by law. If this young man decides to complain and take his parents to court after asking him to leave without proper notice, then this family has deeper problems./QUOTE

I agree with you, Monicad.
Unfortunately, this IS the law in some states. I discovered this quite recently from personal experience. It may not be law in every state(anyone know?). However, it is certainly something to check before making a decision to ask someone to leave your home. What I found most troubling was that if you “allow” an adult to stay in your home, they can do whatever they please. So if the OP’s son wanted to have gf stay overnight in his room, he can. It is within the law. Most reasonable people would leave if asked, but others may not AND would be within their right to press charges. It is very sad to me that parents have to be wary of “allowing” their adult children to remain in the home. I feel like parental rights are being chipped away and we are generally unaware.

 

[BillP]

I don’t know if your sarcasm at the end was meant to be funny or a cut-down of my advice. With all Christian Charity we simply disagree, and that is okay on these forums.

I don’t believe that you have to support your adult child living with you in order to show love. I believe you can, and should show love in many other ways.

I have lived this and it turned out fine. I made it clear to a child that they could live here but could not if they spent the night at someone’s home. I had my younger and impressionable children to worry about. This rule was breached and we kindly asked them to leave. The child apologized and left, but understood 100% and we have a great relationship to this day. I see my child regularly, talk on the phone and they stop by every few weeks.

I don’t think I am advocating that a parent loves a child conditionally upon their good behavior. This is simply adults deciding that they can’t live together, that’s all. This scenario could play out in other ways too, if an adult child drank too much, smoked pot or listened to loud music that was displeasing or any other kind of adult-lifestyle choice that a person determined they couldn’t live with under their roof, there would be nothing wrong with someone saying “I am uncomfortable with this living arrangement.”

You will likely disagree but that is the beauty of different viewpoints! God bless.

Monica,

I didn’t intend the last line to come across as sarcastic, but upon re-reading it, I totally see that it did. It was supposed to lighten the previous content with a bit of humor reminiscent of the old joke “Other than THAT MRs Lincoln, how did you like the play?”. Obviously it didn’t.

My apologies.

As to the rest of it. Yes, we have different viewpoints and apparently will have to agree to disagree. I think categorical answers and advice such as yours doesn’t adequately consider all the future ramifications of such actions. of course, YMMV.

Sorry again.