Adultery?

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Definition of ANNULMENT

1
: the act of annulling : the state of being annulled
2
: a judicial or ecclesiastical pronouncement declaring a marriage invalid
In a legal annulment that makes sense. There was a legal marriage, the state takes an action to undo the marriage, annulling it by taking it off the books in a legal sense as if it hadn’t happened. But if the state doesn’t take an action to annul it, the marriage is still legal and still recorded even if the spouses divorce. Again, the legal process starts by acknowledging there’s a legal marriage to be undone.

In the Catholic church’s sense getting an annulment and having a marriage annulled imply the church taking an action to undo the marriage which is not what occurs. The Church investigates a marriage and makes a decision as to whether it was valid from the start- unlike a legal annulment which starts with the basis that there was a legally valid marriage. The church declaring a marriage null is stating there was never a sacramental marriage at all.

I’m not saying I’m correct, I realize I don’t define language. But personally I think its misleading and inaccurate when folks talk about marriage and the process within the Church.
 
I think of the term annulment as the Church recognizing a civil marriage existed, but declaring that a religious/ spiritual bond of marriage did not.
 
I think of the term annulment as the Church recognizing a civil marriage existed, but declaring that a religious/ spiritual bond of marriage did not.
I was under the impression that only a Christian marriage could be classed as a Religious / Spiritual Marriage
 
People of great knowledge, is it possible for 2 people, who have previously been ‘lovers’, who have committed adultery, and have now decided ‘NOT’ to commit adultery again to remain, very close friends and still not sin?

I ask as my sister has asked me this question.

She and her ‘friend’ have decided not to commit adultery. They have decided to not be physically attached. They want to remain very close loving friends but without all the stuff that comes with a physical relationship.

Would this be classed as grave sin?

They just want to remain close friends with no physical contact except maybe a loving hug but nothing more until their divorces are sorted however long that takes!! They are determined to do this and especially my sister who does not want to commit Mortal Sin! She knows it is wrong to love someone else but divorce is definitely going to happen and she knows that if she does marry this guy that she wont be able to partake in Holy Communion. She just doesn’t want to sin any more now. Knowing that things will change and she will marry this guy at some point in the very distant future.

Thanks people for all your advice etc 👍
 
Ajecphotos, to answer your question, I would say, “NO,” in caps.

Why? Several reasons:
  1. Your sister and her [guy pal] are both married and not to one another. They always will be married to other people, in the eyes of God, until some spouse dies or there is an annulment. OK, so they pursue civil divorce – but they remain married in the eyes of God.
  2. Given that status, what they are proposing to do would be wrongful even if “all they did was give a loving hug.” I have a rule: NEVER give a “loving hug” to any non-relative woman not my wife. Whether public or private; old friend; whatever. If a woman gives me a hug, for any reason, 1 arm does not hug her, because…it’s just not right, and I will never have anyone even think an ill thought about my doing so. Sister is still giving affection to someone else not her spouse. Some things are wrong, and will always be wrong: Loving affection, of any sort, to someone else not a spouse, is always wrong, because your spouse is supposed to be reserved above all others. Period.
  3. That’s bad enough. It’s even worse when the people you are asking about have previously engaged in adulterous behavior and are clearly contemplating an ongoing relationship. Do you really, really think that a hug is all they’ll ever do? Ever? That will not; heck, they haven’t stopped there in the past. Even if a hug just leads to an impure thought – that’s yet another wrong flowing from this relationship.
Ajecphotos, you are asking us for the same validation your sister is asking for you, namely, validation that “she and her lover can continue to have a relationship in some fashion.” I have been saying for weeks now that doing so in any way is wrong; and that your not telling them so is wrong in and of itself. I’m not backing down from that now, and I wish you’d see that their doing so is wrong and that your validation is wrong too.

I’m tempted to write the following in 50-point type: * Any relationship between these 2 people is morally wrong, and you are making it worse by not telling them so in exactly whose words. *
 
Ajecphotos, to answer your question, I would say, “NO,” in caps.

Why? Several reasons:
  1. Your sister and her [guy pal] are both married and not to one another. They always will be married to other people, in the eyes of God, until some spouse dies or there is an annulment. OK, so they pursue civil divorce – but they remain married in the eyes of God.
  2. Given that status, what they are proposing to do would be wrongful even if “all they did was give a loving hug.” I have a rule: NEVER give a “loving hug” to any non-relative woman not my wife. Whether public or private; old friend; whatever. If a woman gives me a hug, for any reason, 1 arm does not hug her, because…it’s just not right, and I will never have anyone even think an ill thought about my doing so. Sister is still giving affection to someone else not her spouse. Some things are wrong, and will always be wrong: Loving affection, of any sort, to someone else not a spouse, is always wrong, because your spouse is supposed to be reserved above all others. Period.
  3. That’s bad enough. It’s even worse when the people you are asking about have previously engaged in adulterous behavior and are clearly contemplating an ongoing relationship. Do you really, really think that a hug is all they’ll ever do? Ever? That will not; heck, they haven’t stopped there in the past. Even if a hug just leads to an impure thought – that’s yet another wrong flowing from this relationship.
Ajecphotos, you are asking us for the same validation your sister is asking for you, namely, validation that “she and her lover can continue to have a relationship in some fashion.” I have been saying for weeks now that doing so in any way is wrong; and that your not telling them so is wrong in and of itself. I’m not backing down from that now, and I wish you’d see that their doing so is wrong and that your validation is wrong too.

I’m tempted to write the following in 50-point type: * Any relationship between these 2 people is morally wrong, and you are making it worse by not telling them so in exactly whose words. *
I agree with your points 100%.

I was just asking for as much advice as is possible.

I ‘have’ told my sister how wrong it is 👍
 
Once you go from friends to lovers or start out as lovers, it’s impossible to go back to being friends. There will always be temptation and angst.

I think your sister should drop this lover. While she might feel “in love”, neither she nor the lover are available for the relationship they are having. She CAN do it and because God is a loving, understanding God. I believe if we repent and ask Him to help us overcome temptation, He will. I don’t think her trying to continue this affair in any capacity, even under the rouse of “friendship”, will help her relationship with God. We can’t say, “Oh well, God understands and loves me anyway” and continue in the behavior that separates us from Him.
 
Once you go from friends to lovers or start out as lovers, it’s impossible to go back to being friends. There will always be temptation and angst.

I think your sister should drop this lover. While she might feel “in love”, neither she nor the lover are available for the relationship they are having. She CAN do it and because God is a loving, understanding God. I believe if we repent and ask Him to help us overcome temptation, He will. I don’t think her trying to continue this affair in any capacity, even under the rouse of “friendship”, will help her relationship with God. We can’t say, “Oh well, God understands and loves me anyway” and continue in the behavior that separates us from Him.
Yes but, she does love this guy very much! It can be almost impossible to give such a love up. We should be prepared to do anything for God though, i agree. Life is not quite that simple though. Prayer is the best. Prayer to God for guidance. I am sure he will help.

God works in mysterious ways!
 
Yes but, she does love this guy very much! It can be almost impossible to give such a love up. We should be prepared to do anything for God though, i agree. Life is not quite that simple though. Prayer is the best. Prayer to God for guidance. I am sure he will help.

God works in mysterious ways!
I have been on another forum with a section for betrayed spouses, the other man/woman, and wayward spouses who are trying to reconcile with their husbands/wives. A lot of the wayward spouses and other men/woman who have chosen to move on with their lives and leave their affair do a thing called “No Contact”. It’s as simple as it sounds. They delete and block their affair partners from having any contact with them and vice versa. Delete everything related to the affair, block the affair partner’s number, block and delete them from social media, no longer go to the places they frequent, etc.

The withdrawl period (a lot of people see the affair, emotional or physical, as an addiction to a person due to the happy hormones) seems to last about 2-4 weeks and then they’re free.

Your sister might want to try that approach.
 
I have been on another forum with a section for betrayed spouses, the other man/woman, and wayward spouses who are trying to reconcile with their husbands/wives. A lot of the wayward spouses and other men/woman who have chosen to move on with their lives and leave their affair do a thing called “No Contact”. It’s as simple as it sounds. They delete and block their affair partners from having any contact with them and vice versa. Delete everything related to the affair, block the affair partner’s number, block and delete them from social media, no longer go to the places they frequent, etc.

The withdrawl period (a lot of people see the affair, emotional or physical, as an addiction to a person due to the happy hormones) seems to last about 2-4 weeks and then they’re free.

Your sister might want to try that approach.
For people to do what you have suggested above it just goes to show that they were not ‘truly’ in love. To be truly in love is totally different. To be totally in love means giving your life for the other person. If true love is involved there is no way one can just ‘switch off’.
 
For people to do what you have suggested above it just goes to show that they were not ‘truly’ in love. To be truly in love is totally different. To be totally in love means giving your life for the other person. If true love is involved there is no way one can just ‘switch off’.
True love does not involve cooperating in putting another’s soul at risk of eternal damnation.

Adultery is incompatible with true love.

True love is not about me, it’s about them. True love is realizing that someone else is better off if I release all claim on them and watch them walk away regardless of its impact on me.
 
But, as humans, true love is very very hard to ignore! We are not robots, we are not angels. We have feelings. Love can be very very strong indeed1

God knows us 100%.

I pray that he helps us when we find ‘real’ love. A real companion. A true love.

Not every marriage can be a success!! God know this
 
But, as humans, true love is very very hard to ignore! We are not robots, we are not angels. We have feelings. Love can be very very strong indeed1

God knows us 100%.

I pray that he helps us when we find ‘real’ love. A real companion. A true love.

Not every marriage can be a success!! God know this
Mine is. I guess God loves me more?🤷

You are coming close to excusing your sister’s adultery. I am sure it is painful for you. But honestly don’t you even know how silly some of that sounds.
 
But, as humans, true love is very very hard to ignore! We are not robots, we are not angels. We have feelings. Love can be very very strong indeed1

God knows us 100%.

I pray that he helps us when we find ‘real’ love. A real companion. A true love.

Not every marriage can be a success!! God know this
Not every marriage can be a success- but I took my vow before God. If God can not trust me to keep my word, who can? If I love another, should I be excited at the thought they would risk damnation for me-- or horrified at the concept that they might have to endure that.

My marriage did not work out. My LXSNW decided she no longer loved me, moved out, had another man from her past move in. She left the Church, no longer acknowledged it’s truth. What is ‘true love’ in that case? Should it be to cling to the idea that we’re married? She shouldn’t do this, I still had a claim on her? To contemplate and be comforted by the risk she was taking with her soul? If I loved her, truly loved her, what was the right course of action? I honestly don’t know.

But I chose to file a petition for a declaration of nullity. I knew she wouldn’t. I didn’t really think there was a case for it, but, I was deeply saddened by the thought that this person I loved may be condemned, risked eternal fire. Even after all she had done to me.

Who loved her more? The man cooperating in her risking her soul or me trying to open a path for reconciliation with the Church, it’s sacraments?

ETA: Do not tell me that true love ever involves expecting or even exposing the person we love to risk their soul for eternity. If your sister is Catholic and believes it teaches the truth- she does not love that man. If the man understands what your sister believes, do not tell me he loves her since he knowingly is cooperating in her risking eternal damnation.
 
Still, staying together for vows that cannot be kept, for a love that has vanished, for a bond that has broken, for a life that is full of of hardship is just not realistic! God knows this. God knows us. He knows our limits. He knows our failures.

Can one be expected to remain in a marriage when love has vanished for good? When vows cannot be kept? When true love has gone for good?

Is one to remain in that situation because of the vows?

I honestly think that God understands our weaknesses. I truly believe that God helps us in these situations. God is all loving, all caring, full of mercy and understanding.

Not everyone can find a true partner for life! God is love.

God helps. God works in mysterious ways!!

Trust in God! Pray to God! God loves u!!!
 
Still, staying together for vows that cannot be kept, for a love that has vanished, for a bond that has broken, for a life that is full of of hardship is just not realistic! God knows this. God knows us. He knows our limits. He knows our failures.

Can one be expected to remain in a marriage when love has vanished for good? When vows cannot be kept? When true love has gone for good?

Is one to remain in that situation because of the vows?

I honestly think that God understands our weaknesses. I truly believe that God helps us in these situations. God is all loving, all caring, full of mercy and understanding.

Not everyone can find a true partner for life! God is love.

God helps. God works in mysterious ways!!

Trust in God! Pray to God! God loves u!!!
Love is not a feeling it is a choice. Otherwise Jesus could not have commanded us to love one another, to love even our enemies. Love is the hard choice, not the easy one. Love is often the painful choice-- as Christ showed us by choosing to accept being crucified.

If your love can simply disappear, than you could never take the vow to love for a lifetime to begin with, no such vow could ever be binding and therefore could never be taken.

I do trust in God. God told me to love, so I love. I took a vow to love, so I love.

If one’s love can simply vanish-- than it can do so for the next person, or one’s child, or one’s parent, anyone. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice, it is action, often the difficult and painful choice and action.
 
Ok, married for 30 years. Gets very friendly with a member of opposite sex who is also married. No sex. But cuddles, holding hands. Comforting and loving. Both agree to no sex at all.

Both sets of partners are non loving so that is why above has happened.

Is the above adultery?
This is not a hard question. What did your spouses say when you asked them? Did either of them have a hard time giving you an answer? That’s your answer. Let me go out on a limb and guess that you have not actually asked either one of them what their opinion is.

You say God understands your weakness, but what does God say about a conscience that rationalizes? If this is a legitimate relationship, why are you hiding it from the person to whom you said, “I, Ajecphotos, take you, Ajecphata, to be my wife. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life”? When, in all of Holy Scriptures, does Heaven wink at the “little deceits” of humankind? In other words, do you have evidence that what you are proposing is truly the nature of the mercy of God?

Search your soul and your conscience, and not your mind.

On the secular side, Dr. Phil would tell you that a person of integrity works through one romantic relationship at a time. A person of integrity doesn’t have romances on the side that his or her spouse knows nothing about. Work on the difficult one to which you have made a commitment. Don’t muddy things up with a third party until you have.
 
So, you don’t believe in marriage lasting until death? You think vows are just pretty words, not a real covenant between the couple and God? :confused:

How do you (or she) know that the love is gone “for good?” If they had love at the beginning (or even if they didn’t), it’s still possible to get it back. It’s only been 8 years, not forever. I know of married couples (including my husband and I) who struggled as long or longer than that, and now (thanks to the grace of God) have deeply committed, intimate, loving marriages. It sounds like you (and maybe your sister) just don’t have as much faith as you think you do in God’s grace to help people through difficult situations. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s how you’re coming across.

It sounds like, despite your words, that you don’t really believe in God’s love, or perhaps you don’t really understand what that love entails. It’s not that God won’t forgive her, but if she won’t repent, then how will she gain that forgiveness? You seem to think that because God offers forgiveness, it’s okay to offend Him! Or do you think He will forgive us even if we don’t repent, as long as we had some good excuse for it? (Ever heard of the sin of presumption?)

God knows and understands how your sister is struggling, and He will help her through it, despite her faults and weaknesses. If she allows Him, He will be her strength. He will give her the grace to do what is RIGHT, not necessarily what she thinks she wants, but what she needs.

See, God doesn’t always want us to be happy, because sometimes what will make us temporarily feel happy is NOT what is best for us or will get us to Heaven. Doing the “nice” thing is not always the most loving thing. Sometimes that means our feelings will be hurt, we have to suffer, and we have to make sacrifices. That’s part of love!

Think about what Christ did for us–the suffering, the complete giving of Himself for us, even when we didn’t deserve it, even when we were at our absolute worst.

Now, THAT is love. And that is what we’re supposed to strive for in marriage.

I get that you’re trying to defend your sister here, but you’re coming across as not very concerned for her well-being, for her soul, and for her family, but only for her feelings. That’s a really short-sighted view of things. I hope you don’t really mean some of the things you’re posting, but only coming across that way because you’re trying to defend your sister.

For instance, the way you keep saying how “weak” we all are… don’t you think it’s rather insulting and disrespectful of your sister to suggest that she’s just too weak and too easily led by her emotions to actually do the right thing? Don’t you think it’s kind of insulting to imply that she didn’t really love her husband, that she is incapable of loving her husband now, and that she didn’t really mean her vows when she made them? That poor, pitiful creature, like an animal subject to its fleeting feelings, can’t put her feelings aside–that’s just too much for her! :eek:

I don’t know how old you are, but you (and perhaps your sister) seem to have the idea that love is a feeling, and that “true love” is all about romance and bliss and happy feelings, and when we find “true love,” we can maintain that happiness with “the one,” without too much effort, trouble, struggle, or suffering. You seem to think she married the “wrong person,” and that she’ll suffer forever if she stays. I wonder what your opinion of her husband will be if she eventually gets her marriage worked out and dumps the lover?

Here’s the thing: there’s no such thing as “the one” (unless you mean God). There’s no such thing as “effort-free love.” Love is not some warm, fuzzy feeling or butterflies in the stomach. It’s not all about romance and happy feelings and affection. Sometimes we get those things along with love, yes. But they are just sort of like side-effects, not the real thing. And love is not about “what makes me happy.”

Your sister has made “romance” into her idol. She calls it “true love,” but it’s not even close. 😦 And it’s really, really, sad that she doesn’t seem to have a clue that what she’s chasing is just a farce, a fake, a incredibly poor imitation of real love. And I’m sad for her that even though you claim she knows how “wrong” you feel it is, still you excuse her behavior and support what she’s doing (at least in your posts). She’s knowingly tempting a married man away from his wife and children (how would she feel if another woman did that to her?). She’s already decided to emotionally abandon her marriage and her family–and she thinks it’s just fine because at least she and her lover are waiting until the kids are “old enough” to have their families torn apart (what age is that, exactly?).

Good feelings, romance, respect, true love, happiness. Can she have those things in her own marriage (again)? Probably, yes. But she needs to put God first–not her husband, not this other guy, not her happiness, not romantic feelings, definitely not herself, and not anything or anyone else. And I’d even venture to suggest that she probably cannot expect anything in return from her husband for a while–but that shouldn’t be why she does it, anyway. She’d have to give to her husband and love and respect him out of obedience and love of God. Not because of what her husband does or does not do.

Staying together in an unhappy marriage (and working on the relationship) certainly is realistic. It can be done. Is it hard? Oh, yes. It’s probably the hardest thing I’ve done in my entire life–and let me tell you, I’ve done some really hard things! Is it worth it?

Yes, yes, yes. More than I can even begin to explain. :heaven:

1 Cor 13:4-7

I will pray for you and your sister. :gopray2:
 
Unless one is put into a situation like my sisters then it can be very easy to say you should do this or do that!

Staying together when all hell is breaking loose just because you said some vows is just not right! Some people just cannot live together!! That is a fact. God knows this. This is where i believe that God helps and guides those who ‘want’ to be helped, just like my sister.

Its not a matter of all for one and one for all! Everyone’s case is different. God knows this. I am sure he doesn’t treat every broken marriage the same!

God is mercy. God is love. God is full of understanding for our weak, pathetic ways!
 
Unless one is put into a situation like my sisters then it can be very easy to say you should do this or do that!
You don’t know what other posters here have been through.
Staying together when all hell is breaking loose just because you said some vows is just not right! Some people just cannot live together!! That is a fact. God knows this. This is where i believe that God helps and guides those who ‘want’ to be helped, just like my sister.
God does not help us by leading us into adultery.
 
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