Adults serving as Altar Servers

[phil19034]

This may be the difference, since at the parishes I know the Altar Society takes care of the cleaning and the decorating of the church, care for the linens and vestments and so on, while the priest takes care of training servers or those who train the servers himself, as well as training the lectors and the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. That eliminates a layer of communication.

yes, totally different Altar Society. Most I know are called Altar Guilds, but anyway, these are full blow ministries dedicated to serving the Altar during Mass.

Ten altar servers? Who on earth has ten altar servers at a Mass on a regular basis? Do you have a video link, because I’m curious how that works at a Mass during Ordinary Time. Even so, it is hard to imagine that the altar servers don’t have recurring roles that hardly require anything like hours a week of rehearsal on an ongoing basis. (Special Masses, such as for Triduum or when the archbishop will be at Mass, are another matter and yes, those rehearsals take a good deal of time.)

the FSSP church near me often has about 10 for each mass. More for Solemn Masses.

• Two MCs
• one MC in training
• a Thurifer (one who takes care of the thurible during the whole mass
• one Crucifer
• one 1st Acolyte
• one 2nd Acolyte
• plus a few Jr. Acolytes and a few Trainees.

The Jr. Acolytes and Trainees always (with at the 2nd Acolyte) also kneel with candle sticks during the consecration. There are usually about 5 of them.

All of the above takes place at a simple High Mass, with no deacon or sub-deacon.


There is also a regular parish in South Florida I know of, where they have everyone who serves at Mass vested (thought I’m not a fan of this at all)

• Kids wearing a black cassock with surplice
• Two MCs wearing a purple or red cassock with surplice (don’t remember the exact color)
• Lectors wear a blue cassock with surplice
• cantors wearing a green cassock with surplice
• Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion wearing Albs with pectoral Crosses.

 

[phil19034]

As I said in my original post, I just want to make sure that the Priest gains assistance at Mass.
I don’t care who serves as an Altar Server.

Just curious… does the priest actually want more help at Mass? There are some priests who don’t like to use the Altar Servers much.

 

[JohnLilburne]

It is not a question of whether the Priest actually wants more help. He should be following the instructions in the liturgical books. One of these, from the Roman Missal’s Order of Mass:

“21. When all this has been done, the Offertory Chant begins. Meanwhile, the ministers place the corporal, the purificator, the chalice, the pall, and the Missal on the altar.”

The Priest is not meant to be the only person in the entrance procession, the only person in the sanctuary.

[Excerpt from the English translation of The Roman Missal © 2010 International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.]

 

[PetraG]

There is also a regular parish in South Florida I know of, where they have everyone who serves at Mass vested (thought I’m not a fan of this at all)

• Kids wearing a black cassock with surplice
• Two MCs wearing a purple or red cassock with surplice (don’t remember the exact color)
• Lectors wear a blue cassock with surplice
• cantors wearing a green cassock with surplice
• Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion wearing Albs with pectoral Crosses.

Oh, dear. That sounds both liturgically incorrect and well–not having seen it but just imagining it, mind you!–visually hideous. Full of novelties, it would also strike me as having a more-or-less Protestant flavor. Not having the most charitable mind in the world, I’d expect to see “liturgical dancing” and a woman in a rainbow chasuble somewhere in the mix.

the FSSP church near me often has about 10 for each mass. More for Solemn Masses.

• Two MCs
• one MC in training
• a Thurifer (one who takes care of the thurible during the whole mass
• one Crucifer
• one 1st Acolyte
• one 2nd Acolyte
• plus a few Jr. Acolytes and a few Trainees.

The Jr. Acolytes and Trainees always (with at the 2nd Acolyte) also kneel with candle sticks during the consecration. There are usually about 5 of them.

OK, so mostly altar servers who aren’t even doing anything, or certainly nothing necessary. That implies to me that the parish is simply trying to accommodate all the servers who have an interest in serving. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but how anybody does all the training you are describing and then needs to be “in training” during Mass on top of it boggles the mind a bit. I’ve seen MCs train to set the altar one weekend and then do it solo with no training period the next time they served. Most actually did a splendid job of it. I have also found that altar server focus is sometimes more interfered with by micromanagement rather than being improved.

In other words, altar serving can be made into something that takes a substantial time commitment outside of Mass, but there is no reason it has to be that way. That is a local choice.

 

[phil19034]

Oh, dear. That sounds both liturgically incorrect and well–not having seen it but just imagining it, mind you!–visually hideous. Full of novelties, it would also strike me as having a more-or-less Protestant flavor. Not having the most charitable mind in the world, I’d expect to see “liturgical dancing” and a woman in a rainbow chasuble somewhere in the mix.

oh yes… they even have a projector with the lyrics for the hymns…

The pastor grew up as a Southern Baptist.

 

[PetraG]

oh yes… they even have a projector with the lyrics for the hymns…

The pastor grew up as a Southern Baptist.

Well, I suppose the projector isn’t forbidden by the GIRM. The cassocks employing all the different colors aren’t kosher, though.
339. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, readers, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other appropriate and dignified clothing.

 

[Phemie]

phil19034:

it was a figure of speech… God Bless

I have found that there are actually people out there training altar servers who believe that is the goal, heaven help us all. (It is hard to imagine an angel operating according to this kind of a model, I mean.)

It was certainly the case when my daughter first started being an altar server. The number of unnecessary movements those kids made so that everyone did exactly the same thing was like a dance. Drove me nuts.

 

[phil19034]

OK, so mostly altar servers who aren’t even doing anything, or certainly nothing necessary. That implies to me that the parish is simply trying to accommodate all the servers who have an interest in serving. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but how anybody does all the training you are describing and then needs to be “in training” during Mass on top of it boggles the mind a bit. I’ve seen MCs train to set the altar one weekend and then do it solo with no training period the next time they served. Most actually did a splendid job of it. I have also found that altar server focus is sometimes more interfered with by micromanagement rather than being improved.

In other words, altar serving can be made into something that takes a substantial time commitment outside of Mass, but there is no reason it has to be that way. That is a local choice.

Well, remember that in the Latin Mass, the servers also have parts that they are supposed to pray. So the trainees are also learning the prayers and again they hold the candle sticks.

 

[YourNameHere]

At a recent Mass, there was no deacon and there were no altar servers. Fortunately, the reader was there and Eucharistic Ministers were there. There was no one to assist the Priest at the Altar.
I did not ask him afterward if he needed help.
I assumed he might, since he is the only Priest in our Parish and officiates in all of the Masses each Sunday
It was one of those Sundays were multiple helpers were no shows, for whatever the reason.

 

[Glennon_P]

My parish uses altar boys (the only diocese in the U.S. that does not allow altar girls) starting in 5th grade and continuing through high school. Typically we have two servers per Mass on weekdays and at least three on Sunday Masses. During those Masses they all have specific jobs which might include something as simple as holding the paten for Communion to more complex jobs, including helping the celebrant at Offertory, ringing the Consecration bells, etc. All good and very edifying.

However, there are times, particularly at Christmas and Holy Week liturgies, when it’s “come one, come all” - literally, anyone who shows up can dress in cassock and surplice and be an altar server. The only apparent limiting factor is the number of cassocks and surplices.

Yes, there are additional jobs at those Masses that we don’t have at a regular Mass (incense, candles in procession, etc.). But sometime there are more altar boys than there are jobs and for some of them, their only function is to process in, take their seat in the sanctuary, and after Mass, process out. To this parishioner at least, it’s distracting to have that many people in the sanctuary, particularly when they have no function in the Mass.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Phemie]

What you describe is what I grew up with so I don’t find it distracting. At home every kid who was an altar server was vested and in the sanctuary any time they were at Mass. You might only have 3 or 4 actually having a job, so to speak. Not rare to have 12-15 on any given Sunday.

 

[Glennon_P]

Maybe you’re right. Where I grew up, we had four servers at each Mass (two “low” and two “high”…it was a big achievement when you graduated from “low” to “high”). But that was it - if you weren’t scheduled, you didn’t serve, unless someone was a no-show and you were drafted from the pew to pinch hit.

In the absence of a no-show-and-you’ve-been-drafted scenario, any attempt to serve when you weren’t scheduled would risk the wrath of the saintly Franciscan nuns who trained us.

 

[phil19034]

To this parishioner at least, it’s distracting to have that many people in the sanctuary, particularly when they have no function in the Mass.

Funny, I feel the opposite. I actually think it’s awesome to see.

But that’s me.

 

[PetraG]

Funny, I feel the opposite. I actually think it’s awesome to see.

But that’s me.

I’m good with whatever Father wants, provided whoever is helping out is reverent, and we’ve had no problems with that. Reverent behavior tends to have a focusing effect and irreverent behavior or anything that calls attention to little mistakes has a distracting effect. That’s actually why I think it is better to have a little play in what is “correct” for the altar servers to do. It makes it easier to avoid being distracting if it is not immediately noticeable when something is done just slightly differently. Even choreography can be distracting, if it is not arranged specifically to make the servers seem calm and unassuming (in my opinion). That was always the byword when we were training altar servers: He must increase; I must decrease. (Jn 3:30). It is important to keep the eyes and attention on the priest and what the priest is doing.

 

[Pitcairn17]

“Lay Clergy “ = “Jumbo Shrimp”. Your basic oxymoron. No such thing as lay clergy.

 

[Venite]

Thanks for posting that. Practically speaking, lay people are going to be filling these roles more often than not, even in pontifical liturgies, but the reality is that they are meant to be fulfilled by those properly instituted for the job, and this was the case, too, before the Second Vatican Council, where an acolyte or lector was a cleric in minor orders.

Unfortunately, due to modern sensibilities, people think serving is for children, and that servers don’t do anything of value. For the former, this is not true and the relevant documentation has now been provided in this thread. As for the latter, it is all too common for the liturgy to have been so minimalized and the ceremony stripped bare that only one server really is needed, but if one celebrates the liturgy to its proper extent, according to the liturgical books, anywhere from 6-12 servers are needed, all of whom need to be, and out of proper respect, reverence, and love toward the liturgy, should be, adequately and regularly trained.

As an example to what an average Sunday should be, if there is incense:

Master of Ceremonies
Thurifer
(Boatbearer)
Bookbearer
Acolyte 1
Acolyte 2
Crossbearer

This is sort of the core group, which is 6 or 7. If you include torchbearers, then you need up to another 6 (not including if you double-up positions, but this isn’t preferable if you can avoid it). Holy Week and other special liturgies is another question altogether. At a Pontifical Mass, you will want 2 or 3 more servers, that is, crosierbearer, mitrebearer, and possibly a second master of ceremonies to ensure everything goes smoothly.

 

[HeDa]

There are usually plenty of adult size albs for visiting deacons and priests to use. In my parish only those visiting priests and deacons who are very, very tall bring their own as they are used to parishes not having albs in sizes for those close to 2 metres tall.

Adult size albs are also needed when there are adults being baptised.

 

[paperwight]

Adult size albs are also needed when there are adults being baptised.

I’ve never heard of that. When an adult is baptised in our parish it is usually at the Easter Vigil and they just wear ordinary clothes.

Sudden thought - does your parish conduct baptisms by total immersion and so they would need to change afterwards?

 

[HeDa]

The adults wear ordinary clothes and when they have been baptised the priest says “Receive the white garment… … …” just like he does when a child is baptised and then they are dressed in the albs. (Alb means white in Latin.) It is usually the sponsor who clothes them, lights their baptismal candle and gives it to the newly baptised. I was asked to be a sponsor last year and it was great joy.

No immersion. Same baptismal font is used for children and adults.

 

[EugeneCharles]

Greetings of peace!
Woman and man can both be an altar server and base on my experience everyone can be an altar server but they must have a good condition and for a female altar server the diocese must approve and give permission to the parish to have it .I saw a Catholic Church Altar Servers during a procession there are a lot of women holding thurible , candlestick and many more and they are all altar servers.It is legal to have a female altar server but the diocese must give permission.So this means that both young and old , woman and man can be an altar server.