Advancing in Prayer to the Illuminative and Unitive Stages of Spirituality

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I’ve read a number of books about mysticism by saints such as St. John of the Cross, but I have no access that I know of to a spiritual director and so was wondering if someone versed in the subject might offer some advice about books and/or other areas to explore regarding advancing in prayer.

Also, what does the Church teach regarding the different stages of the spiritual life? It is my understanding that contemplative prayer, for instance, is given to whom God wills and therefore it is hard for me to understand how someone might advance to the unitive stage or become a great mystic or saint given how many people seek a deep prayer life yet how few mystics and saints there have been.

I appreciate the help.
 
the Art of Praying by Romano Guardinia (Sophia Inst Press)
The Journey Toward God and Spiritual Passages, both by Fr. Benedict Groeschell, wherever his books are sold.
Authenticity by Thomas Dubay, Ignatius Press.

there are numerous threads here on contemplative prayer with valuable information. just remember, we don’t study calculus before we have memorized our times tables or learned long division.
 
Mike O:
I’ve read a number of books about mysticism by saints such as St. John of the Cross, but I have no access that I know of to a spiritual director and so was wondering if someone versed in the subject might offer some advice about books and/or other areas to explore regarding advancing in prayer.

Also, what does the Church teach regarding the different stages of the spiritual life? It is my understanding that contemplative prayer, for instance, is given to whom God wills and therefore it is hard for me to understand how someone might advance to the unitive stage or become a great mystic or saint given how many people seek a deep prayer life yet how few mystics and saints there have been.

I appreciate the help.
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Hi Mike,

I am in formation with Secular Carmelites in my area and our formation director, Tom Reid, has written some study guides on at least one of the books, “The Dark Night of the Soul”, and I believe the “Ascent of Mt. Carmel”. He has given a series of talks each, first Saturday of the month when the community has its monthly meeting. He is an awesome speaker and I understand the study guides are as helpful as his talks.

They should available through Grotto Press, which prints them, but you may need to contact them as I don’t know that they are on the website.

In fact, I will ask if these are available for public sale and get back to this thread with the info. Maybe they will add them to the site.

grottopress.org/Books/books.html

I would ask that anyone reading this thread, please say a prayer for Tom who is gravely ill at the moment. He had his gall bladder removed through laparoscopy and ended up with a leaking bile duct that was spewing bad stuff into his abdomen. He ended up with sepsis and double pneumonia and is on a ventilator. He has made some improvements, but is not out of the woods yet.
 
Okay, email has been sent. I’ll let you know what she says about public availability of the guide.

Have you considered contacting your diocese to find out if they know of someone fluent in the writings of St. John of the Cross? I contacted a local Carmelite Monastery and discovered there was a parish just about 12 minutes from my home that was a base for a large secular Carmelite community and that the pastor was a TOC himself. Both the pastor of Assumption Grotto, Fr. Eduard Perrone, and Tom Reid provide us with many good spiritual talks on St. John of the Cross and Teres of Avila, as well as other mystics.

Hopefully, you can be just as lucky 🙂
 
Mike O:
I’ve read a number of books about mysticism by saints such as St. John of the Cross, but I have no access that I know of to a spiritual director and so was wondering if someone versed in the subject might offer some advice about books and/or other areas to explore regarding advancing in prayer.

Also, what does the Church teach regarding the different stages of the spiritual life? It is my understanding that contemplative prayer, for instance, is given to whom God wills and therefore it is hard for me to understand how someone might advance to the unitive stage or become a great mystic or saint given how many people seek a deep prayer life yet how few mystics and saints there have been.

I appreciate the help.
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Mike, a book I highly recommend is Union with God According to St. John of the Cross, by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdelen, O.C.D… It is available from the Discalced Carmelite nuns of the Carmel of Maria Regina in Eugene, Oregon:

ourgardenofcarmel.org/MariaReginaBookList.htm

Another helpful book would be the classic by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross, TAN Books.
 
I’ve been reading “The Fire Within” by Fr. Thomas Dubay and have found it very helpful. Like you, I don’t have a spiritual director, and I have found much comfort in this book along the lines of “Ah, so I’m not alone in experiencing this. This is to be expected.” It does not presume a sophistication that I don’t have, yet it is not so basic that it merely serves up the obvious.
 
Mike, regarding a spiritual director: are their any monastic Orders within a reasonable distance for you?
 
Thanks to FCEGM, Lux et veritas, puzzleannie, and Sherlock (hopefully this is everyone).

I live in the Washington DC area; I am sure there might be some monastic orders around, but I don’t have a lot of mobility as far as transportation goes and I am not sure quite how I would approach them.

Thank you for the list of books; they are very helpful, and now my only task is to pick one or two as otherwise I’ll be spending $150 on books! But I will certainly look into a number of those titles. Someone else recommended Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales as well.
 
Mike O:
Thanks to FCEGM, Lux et veritas, puzzleannie, and Sherlock (hopefully this is everyone).

I live in the Washington DC area; I am sure there might be some monastic orders around, but I don’t have a lot of mobility as far as transportation goes and I am not sure quite how I would approach them.

Thank you for the list of books; they are very helpful, and now my only task is to pick one or two as otherwise I’ll be spending $150 on books! But I will certainly look into a number of those titles. Someone else recommended Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales as well.
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St. Francis de Sales is an excellent read for many topics.
 
I always go to the library to pick up books on spirituality and contemplative prayer. I just finished reading a wonderful book. Go take it out at your local library. It’s called:

“Contemplative Prayer” by Thomas Merton.

I also took out “A New Man” by the same author. I’m still reading it and so far it’s FABULOUS!

Thomas Merton wrote many great works before he died in 1968. He was a Trappist Priest/Monk.
 
Mike O:
Thanks to FCEGM, Lux et veritas, puzzleannie, and Sherlock (hopefully this is everyone).

I live in the Washington DC area; I am sure there might be some monastic orders around, but I don’t have a lot of mobility as far as transportation goes and I am not sure quite how I would approach them. . . .QUOTE]

Mike, I know that both the Discalced Carmelite Friars and the Dominicans have monasteries in D.C., perhaps they are on public transporation lines.

Carmelites:

ocdwashprov.com/

2131 Lincoln Rd NE, Washington, DC
(202) 832-6622

Dominican House of Studies:

wordofgodinstitute.org/Old/Old_DHS_Art1.htm

487 Michigan Avenue, NE Washington, DC 20017-1584
(202) 529-5300

I would suggest simply calling them and asking for suggestions/recommendations for a spiritual director. Also, both Orders have Secular Order Communities (a friend of mine is a member of the D.C. Community of Third Order of Preachers), so that might be of interest to you.
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I second the recomendation for Father Dubay’s books. They are wonderful!

I’d be really careful with Thomas Merton, though. Some of his earlier works are great, but he ended up going WAY off, so far off, even his own order banned him from writing at one point.

He began to regularly disobey his superiors in several serious areas, and ended up leaving the monastery to find “gurus” in the orient. I’ve been told by very orthodox theologians that his later works are full of false doctrine and heresy.

Most people hate to hear this, because his first books can be life changing. But Merton himself ended up basically saying he wished he’d never writen them. He’s a tragic example of how a very gifted, spiritually blessed person can slowly self destruct if they don’t stay faithful to Church teachings.

I’ve always felt that when you are dealing with “mystical” type of experiences you need to be esp. careful. People who have been blessed with these gifts also seem to be very vulnerable to deception. I think it’s because Satan targets them. That’s why all the saints like John of the Cross and Theresa of Avila have such a strong emphasis on obedience and submission. That is the only safe refuge for anybody, but esp. vital for someone who’s dipping their toes into mystical theology.

Sorry! Didn’t mean to be a chatterbox! ! : ) I’ve just been thinking about this subject quite a lot lately, so I’ve enjoyed the thread. God bless Lisa
 
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Lisa_Marie:
I second the recomendation for Father Dubay’s books. They are wonderful!

I’d be really careful with Thomas Merton, though. Some of his earlier works are great, but he ended up going WAY off, so far off, even his own order banned him from writing at one point.

He began to regularly disobey his superiors in several serious areas, and ended up leaving the monastery to find “gurus” in the orient. I’ve been told by very orthodox theologians that his later works are full of false doctrine and heresy.

Most people hate to hear this, because his first books can be life changing. But Merton himself ended up basically saying he wished he’d never writen them. He’s a tragic example of how a very gifted, spiritually blessed person can slowly self destruct if they don’t stay faithful to Church teachings.

I’ve always felt that when you are dealing with “mystical” type of experiences you need to be esp. careful. People who have been blessed with these gifts also seem to be very vulnerable to deception. I think it’s because Satan targets them. That’s why all the saints like John of the Cross and Theresa of Avila have such a strong emphasis on obedience and submission. That is the only safe refuge for anybody, but esp. vital for someone who’s dipping their toes into mystical theology.

Sorry! Didn’t mean to be a chatterbox! ! : ) I’ve just been thinking about this subject quite a lot lately, so I’ve enjoyed the thread. God bless Lisa
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Wow! No kidding! I’ve only read one other book of his in it’s entirety beside “Contemplative Prayer” and I’m working on
“The New Man” at the time being. I really enjoyed his work, not that I could actually practice his way of contemplative prayer, but that his experience with it made it seem a little more understandable to me. I’d actually like to read one of his books where he went off the “deep end” just to see where he might’ve ended up in his thinking and spirituality. Can you suggest one of his later works?

Thanks for being a chatterbox though. Very enlightening.
 
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Lisa_Marie:
I second the recomendation for Father Dubay’s books. They are wonderful!

I’d be really careful with Thomas Merton, though. Some of his earlier works are great, but he ended up going WAY off, so far off, even his own order banned him from writing at one point.

He began to regularly disobey his superiors in several serious areas, and ended up leaving the monastery to find “gurus” in the orient. I’ve been told by very orthodox theologians that his later works are full of false doctrine and heresy.

Most people hate to hear this, because his first books can be life changing. But Merton himself ended up basically saying he wished he’d never writen them. He’s a tragic example of how a very gifted, spiritually blessed person can slowly self destruct if they don’t stay faithful to Church teachings.

I’ve always felt that when you are dealing with “mystical” type of experiences you need to be esp. careful. People who have been blessed with these gifts also seem to be very vulnerable to deception. I think it’s because Satan targets them. That’s why all the saints like John of the Cross and Theresa of Avila have such a strong emphasis on obedience and submission. That is the only safe refuge for anybody, but esp. vital for someone who’s dipping their toes into mystical theology.

Sorry! Didn’t mean to be a chatterbox! ! : ) I’ve just been thinking about this subject quite a lot lately, so I’ve enjoyed the thread. God bless Lisa
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I’d second this. Merton’s “Seven-Story Mountain” is fine, but given his later shenanigans I’d be careful with later works.
 
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Sherlock:
I’d second this. Merton’s “Seven-Story Mountain” is fine, but given his later shenanigans I’d be careful with later works.
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I wonder if the books I have read by him are his later works. “Contemplative Prayer” seemed pretty legit to me. I didn’t see anything wrong with his spirituality in that one. I’m wondering about this new one I’m reading “The New Man”. I suppose I could do a google search on him to see which books were his latest works.

Interesting.
 
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Sherlock:
I’d second this. Merton’s “Seven-Story Mountain” is fine, but given his later shenanigans I’d be careful with later works.
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I’m just wondering here now…if he really went off the deep end in his spirituality, why wasn’t he excommunicated? Why did his community allow him to travel to Asia to learn from “gurus’”? There’s something really weird about this whole picture.

Anyone?
 
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CindyGia:
I’m just wondering here now…if he really went off the deep end in his spirituality, why wasn’t he excommunicated? Why did his community allow him to travel to Asia to learn from “gurus’”? There’s something really weird about this whole picture.

Anyone?
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The same could be asked of Fr. McBrien, of Kung, of any number of people. I don’t know enough about Merton to know why his superiors allowed him to go his own way.

I think Merton just fell victim to the times—lots of people wanted to experiment with Eastern religions and sit at the feet of gurus.
 
I read about it; I think until the end he was a very committed Catholic who merely explored some of the aspects of Zen meditation. That can become tricky, but I got the impression that he was firmly rooted enough in his faith that there was little danger of apostasy.

The one problem was that he was a monk and took up dating with a nurse which expressly disobeyed the orders of his abbot.
 
Mike O:
I read about it; I think until the end he was a very committed Catholic who merely explored some of the aspects of Zen meditation. That can become tricky, but I got the impression that he was firmly rooted enough in his faith that there was little danger of apostasy.

The one problem was that he was a monk and took up dating with a nurse which expressly disobeyed the orders of his abbot.
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I found this on Merton. It’s quite interesting.

hundredmountain.com/Pages/pageone_stuff/mertonpages_fall00/merton_fall00.html
 
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