Advent for Muslims

[jdrake]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am trying to explain advent to a Muslim, who is open to dialouge about Catholic faith. He is respectcful and has read the Bible in Amharic and the Koran in Arabic.

Given that Islam lacks the belief that Jesus was the son of God although they are willing sometimes to confer a messanic title on him, but claim that title is not exclusive to him, it is difficult to explain what the persoid of waiting is for.

A friend suggested saying it is a period of suffering, but unlike Lent and Ramadan, it is not a period of penance so much as preparation, like pregnancy.

I’d like to here the suggestions on how to explain it, and maybe questions of what Advent is, what Christmas is from Muslims

God Bless

Joseph

ps, Is there a way to do spell check on these posts other than by importing them in from another window? My late evening spelling can get a little flacky, especially when I type fast.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Hi Drake

Welcome!

I think that is a good idea to explain about Advent. What is advent. how we do it. how long it takes. is it biblical?

 

[jdrake]

Dear Cyber Knight,

God Bless you for your question. It locates squarely what are 2 of the really important issues here. What is Christian practice and why based on Scipture and scriptually compatable tradition. What is advent and is it scriptural?

It is scriptural in it’s content and context. No where in the New Testmanent do the Apostles say that in the future you should celbrate the arrival of Christ(Christmas), a season following that (the Christmas Season) or preperation for it (Advent).

The old Testament calls for Feast Days, Fast Days and Seasons of such. Jesus confirmed this, for instance celebrating the Feast of Booths nand Pentacost. To do what Jesus would do we must celbrate Feast Days and Fast Days and religious seasons. Just as those days and seasons for the Jews grew out of their shared experience as a people of God, so our grow out of our shared experience.

When and how advent grew up can be located at this link:

: newadvent.org/cathen/01165a.htm

The entire Old Testament is summed up in Advent. The Jews were preparing for the Messiah. during advent we take a short course so to speak in that preperation. Feast days of Mary that lead to her conception through the Holy Spirit, , scriptural focus on the coming of the Messiah, music, song and liturgy that reminds us of that preperation.

I’ll try to get a little more on this in a couple of days.

I know that a lot of times non-Catholics like to visit a Catholic church on Christmas for the pagentry. It might be nice to vist one now for the preperation. Adventstarted w/ the Feast of Christ the King and will continue until Christmas Vigil mass.

God Bless You, Happy Advent and Merry Christmas

Joseph Drake

 

[Cyber_Knight]

jdrake:

Dear Cyber Knight,
God Bless you for your question.

Dear Joseph Drake, God Bless you too for your answers.

It locates squarely what are 2 of the really important issues here. What is Christian practice and why based on Scipture and scriptually compatable tradition. What is advent and is it scriptural?
It is scriptural in it’s content and context. No where in the New Testmanent do the Apostles say that in the future you should celbrate the arrival of Christ(Christmas), a season following that (the Christmas Season) or preperation for it (Advent).

So it is scriptural but not in NT but OT, am I right?

The old Testament calls for Feast Days, Fast Days and Seasons of such. Jesus confirmed this, for instance celebrating the Feast of Booths nand Pentacost. To do what Jesus would do we must celbrate Feast Days and Fast Days and religious seasons. Just as those days and seasons for the Jews grew out of their shared experience as a people of God, so our grow out of our shared experience.

Why would we follow what had become Jews tradition while Jesus come with his new law. What about circumcision? the Apostles didn’t urge whether Christian should circumcised or not.

When and how advent grew up can be located at this link:
: newadvent.org/cathen/01165a.htm
The entire Old Testament is summed up in Advent.

Noted.

The Jews were preparing for the Messiah. during advent we take a short course so to speak in that preperation. Feast days of Mary that lead to her conception through the Holy Spirit, , scriptural focus on the coming of the Messiah, music, song and liturgy that reminds us of that preperation.
I’ll try to get a little more on this in a couple of days.

So basically advent copied from Jews tradition in the OT and we replace it with preparation of baby Jesus’ born to this world?

I know that a lot of times non-Catholics like to visit a Catholic church on Christmas for the pageantry. It might be nice to vist one now for the preperation. Advent started w/ the Feast of Christ the King and will continue until Christmas Vigil mass.
God Bless You, Happy Advent and Merry Christmas
Joseph Drake

Well those non catholics visit Catholic church is not many as far as I’m concern. They started celebrating Christmas already in their churches when we enter December and not wait until advent finish (as they have no advent) or until Dec 24. Anyway, it’s a good explanation Drake! I’m catholic but I should learn more from you guys here.

 

[jdrake]

Dear Cyber Knight,

The entire Jewish experience was preperration for Jesus. We are replacing it. We are summing it up. And then adding to it. Because now we are preparing for his return. That is part of Advent too, just as the Baptism of Jesus and the presentation of Jesus are part of the Christmas season.

So how do we explain waiting for Jesus to a Muslim?

God Bless

Joseph

 

[Cyber_Knight]

jdrake:

So how do we explain waiting for Jesus to a Muslim?

Well they are waiting for Jesus in the judgment day. While we are waiting to go to heaven(hopefully, by His grace and our good deeds) with Jesus (hphn) They believe Jesus will come to clear everything including curse us because we worship Jesus not God/Allah.

So your point about to explain waiting for Jesus would be nonsense for them.

 

[jdrake]

Dear CyberKnight,

I did get a little mileage out of a advent as pregnancy metaphor with a Muslim. The other thing is Advent is a period of hope. Talking about it maybe a way to explain our theology of faith, hope and charity to someone. The really negative things that a Muslim might bring up, like Jesus will deny his divinity at the end I try to avoid dealing w/ directly. Beside the understanding gets complicated. Arabic is often not their 1st lanaguage. Even if it is the Koran is written in a classical language and tone. It’s like someone who spoke German and has recently learned English trying to understand Shakespeare. It will be difficult. Not impossible, but an effort. So the translation of what Jesus says comes out differently depending on who you are talking to. Some Muslims have bent over backwards to interpet things and translate things in a manner hoping to effect a degree of reconclliation with Islam.

Then there is the idea some Muslims have that a verse of the Koran can be redacted. That is a later verse supercedes part or all of it’s meaning. This recognizes that Mohammed would get up and give sermons that became the Koran. I think the thinking is that some things may have had a meaning in the context they were delivered in, considering who was listening. Of course is the traditonal order of the Koran actually chronological? So in the end I try to avoid arguing some verse of the Koran that appears to be hostile to Christianity. And I don’t want to just qoute the ones that seem favorable. And just explaining our scripture to them dosn’t seem adequate, as they don’t give the same authority to the Bible we do. So I try to be positive and use logic, lead to things that are components of Christianity. Some of those things are found in Islam, and if we share that good. I reaffirm. I say we agree, but I provide proofs of what we share in common. What is unique I try to lead to very carefully. I’ve had Muslims say yes this, this this and then suddenly they are agreeing to things that contradict Islam. They may suddenly, to use the phrase “redact”, but they have made an agreement to something found in Christianity, and not in Islam.

We’ll let’s hope some others besiedes us jump in on this.

God Bless

Joseph