Advent Wreath Controversy - Not Part of Liturgy

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I don’t necessarily have a complaint. I liked the advent wreath, but the fact my priest didn’t want one highlighted for me that there is something not totally cut and dry about having one, I always assumed it was a totally done thing and there were no downsides and this made me realise there is clearly more to it. Sorry but you’re reading something into what I’m saying that isn’t there.
 
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I kind of miss it, but it doesn’t bother me too deeply. I definitely think it was nice, but I just became interested by the issue as I didn’t previously realise there were these kinds of opinions, it opened my eyes somewhat.
 
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I didn’t say I wasn’t leaving it to his decision. I am not going to tell him he is wrong and we shouldn’t have one, though I was interested in hearing his reasons which he gladly told me. It was a matter of interest about something that doesn’t seem to ever really get questioned.
 
Perhaps posting verses that are relevant with an explanation and maybe quoting them so people dont have to look them up might help people understand
 
Since you brought up “relevant” …

I found the Bible verse more relevant than your innuendo a few posts back.

No one took you to task for that, until now.

The passage was rather thought provoking, really.

Like a Zen koan.
 
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That may be your opinion of those who attend the OF. In our parish quite a number have advent wreaths at their home, as there is an opportunity after each Mass on the first Sunday of Advent to obtain the necessary parts. And I suspect many OF parishes do the same.

Nor do I have any idea why it was necessary to make a comment, off topic, about the 12 days of Christmas. The same applies - it is spoken about from the ambo.
 
In my parish we used to have a different family light the Advent wreath at the beginning of Mass each Sunday and the Advent wreath was on a stand beside the altar. Our new pastor changed that and has an altar server light the candles before Mass begins and the wreath is now located outside of the sanctuary. As far as I know no one objected to the change.
 
otjm said:
That may be your opinion of those who attend the OF. In our parish quite a number have advent wreaths at their home, as there is an opportunity after each Mass on the first Sunday of Advent to obtain the necessary parts. And I suspect many OF parishes do the same.

Nor do I have any idea why it was necessary to make a comment, off topic, about the 12 days of Christmas. The same applies - it is spoken about from the ambo.
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I’m sorry, but you totally misunderstood my post.

I NEVER said most people who atten the OF mass don’t have an Advent Wreath or know the 12 Days of Christmas.

I said “average/nominal Catholics.” I’m refering to the Catholics who come to mass just a couple times a year and who are Catholic mainly out of cultural reasons and family history, not deep belief.

I was NOT talking about the regularly attending, devout Catholic who attends the OF Mass each Sunday (or more).

The EF Mass typically does not have nominal Catholics attending, usually only devout Catholics, so they don’t need to have the Advent Wreath to remind them at Mass. While the OF has people from all walks of life walking in on any given Sunday, so it’s good to have those reminders at Church because they may not have them at home.

That’s what I meant. That’s also why so many priests preach on the Twelve Days of Christmas each year, because so many Americans think Drc 25th is the last day of Christmas. Heck, even the local FSSP priest preached on the Twelve Days of Christmas on the First Day of Advent.

God Bless
 
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Sounds like we’ve got it all neatly sorted out. 😉

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Image edited to put sinners on the left, as per Scripture.
 
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Our parish has an Advent wreath for Advent, lit during the Mass, and the pastor a few years ago introduced the Advent wreath (same wreath, same four candles [seems to me there should be seven], also lit during the Mass) for Lent. It wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see both of those liturgical interruptions disappear, but at the end of the day, it’s Father’s business, not mine.

D
 
In spite of your answer, I maintain that your comment was totally unnecessary.

I don’t know what you are doing to solve the problems - which started in the 1970 and continued on for several decades - which the people you denominate as “nominal” Catholics. I have worked for a number of years in adult education classes at my parish, as well as working on the RCIA team. I don’t go around calling my fellow Catholics “nominal”. They are doing the best they can with what they have been given, and most often don’t know what they don’t know. I work to help them learn more bout their faith.

And having been born a couple of decades before Vatican 2, I can assure you that well over half of any given congregation likely knew little about their faith, as they had religious lessons maybe once a week, if that. Likewise, I do not refer to them as “nominal” Catholics.

I would suggest that in the future you not do so either. I would also suggest that you find a way to help others learn more about their faith in your parish.
 
Perhaps there are issues about using the USA blessing of the Advent Wreath in England.

At the website of the Liturgy Office and England and Wales it has:

“The edition of the Book of Blessings produced for use in the Dioceses of United States of America has been authorised by our own Bishops’ Conference for interim use in England and Wales.” (At Liturgy Office | Ritual Books - Roman Ritual ).

The 1994 Instruction Inculturation and the Roman Liturgy has:

“37. Adaptations of the Roman rite, even in the field of inculturation, depend completely on the authority of the Church. This authority belongs to the Apostolic See, which exercises it through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments;[78] it also belongs, within the limits fixed by law, to episcopal conferences[79] and to the diocesan bishop.[80] “No other person, not even if he is a priest, may on his own initiative add, remove or change anything in the liturgy.”[81] Inculturation is not left to the personal initiative of celebrants or to the collective initiative of an assembly.[82]

Likewise concessions granted to one region cannot be extended to other regions without the necessary authorization, even if an episcopal conference considers that there are sufficient reasons for adopting such measures in its own area.”

(The document is at Varietates Legitimae: Inculturation and the Roman Liturgy ).

The original Latin book, the 1984 book De Benedictionibus does not include a blessing of the Advent Wreath. The Introduction to the book has that the Conference of Bishops has this responsibility: “39. … b. to weigh carefully and prudently what elements from the traditions and culture of individual peoples may be appropriately admitted into divine worship, then to propose further adaptations that the conference considers necessary or helpful;”. The USA’s Conference of Bishops did this, and received approval for the blessing of the Advent Wreath during Mass.

But it is not clear to me that the Bishops Conference of England and Wales have received this approval.
 
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The concept of the Advent wreath originated among German Lutherans in the 16th Century.[7] However, it was not until three centuries later that the modern Advent wreath took shape.[8]


Advent wreath as designed by Wichern

Research by Prof. Haemig of Luther Seminary, St. Paul, points to Johann Hinrich Wichern (1808–1881), a Protestant pastor in Germany and a pioneer in urban mission work among the poor as the inventor of the modern Advent wreath in the 19th century.[9] During Advent, children at the mission school Rauhes Haus , founded by Wichern in Hamburg, would ask daily if Christmas had arrived. In 1839, he built a large wooden ring (made out of an old cartwheel) with 20 small red and 4 large white candles. A small candle was lit successively every weekday and Saturday during Advent. On Sundays, a large white candle was lit. The custom gained ground among Protestant churches in Germany and evolved into the smaller wreath with four or five candles known today. Roman Catholics in Germany began to adopt the custom in the 1920s, and in the 1930s it spread to North America.[10] Professor Haemig’s research also indicates that the custom did not reach the United States until the 1930s, even among German Lutheran immigrants.

en.wikipedia.org

Advent wreath - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Many things now part of the liturgy were once novel innovations as well.

For example, the organ was once a new instrument. Byzantine iconography was once a new artistic style. Incense once became more frequent, if even present at all in the earliest church. Priests only eventually began to wear distinct liturgical garb, which itself developed over time. Latin was once not the common liturgical tongue. English once wasn’t either.

Pews were an innovation at one time, when the congregation had previously been used to standing for worship.

Altars rails, too, were new at one time.

The list goes on and on.

Now, I’m not saying the priest doesn’t have a point. The issue is the justification for it.
 
otjm said:
In spite of your answer, I maintain that your comment was totally unnecessary.

I don’t know what you are doing to solve the problems - which started in the 1970 and continued on for several decades - which the people you denominate as “nominal” Catholics. I have worked for a number of years in adult education classes at my parish, as well as working on the RCIA team. I don’t go around calling my fellow Catholics “nominal”. They are doing the best they can with what they have been given, and most often don’t know what they don’t know. I work to help them learn more bout their faith.

And having been born a couple of decades before Vatican 2, I can assure you that well over half of any given congregation likely knew little about their faith, as they had religious lessons maybe once a week, if that. Likewise, I do not refer to them as “nominal” Catholics.

I would suggest that in the future you not do so either. I would also suggest that you find a way to help others learn more about their faith in your parish.
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I too am very involved with adult faith formation and evangelization.

But I’m NOT talking about the people who go to Mass.

Statistics show that only approx 20% of people who identify as Catholic attend mass “regularly” and “regularly” means a few times a month, not every single Sunday.

The “nominal” Catholics I’m talking about almost never come to mass, and when they do, it’s because they are typically coming with older family members, etc.

They are “nominal” because they self identify with the religion, but they don’t practice it in any way.

So that’s who I’m talking about. I’m not talking about the Catholics who attend Adult Faith Formation classes or come to mass.

I’m talking about the ones who never show up to mass unless there is some family event or ritual (baptism, marriage, funeral, First Communion, family ritual of Christmas mass, etc). And maybe every once in a while they randomly attend to appease grandma.

So again, I am NOT talking about the people who come regularly to mass.

Gods bless
 
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A few points that I think are accurate or misleading from the article:

“Only in the last 20 or 30 years have these wreaths been introduced in many Catholic churches”

The article was written in 2015, but I think in 1995 or even 1985 churches without an Advent wreath were few and far between.

The article also states that the custom was first popularized for use at home or school in an organized way in the 1940s and 50s. I’m skeptical about the 40s, as there wasn’t any significant press coverage reflecting this until the 50s, and only in the mid-50s did it really explode after the publication of the booklet Family Advent Customs. See my last post from this 2009 thread: History of Advent Wreaths

Finally the article states that the wreaths were “used strictly in homes and schools… never in Catholic churches” until “With the innovations of Vatican II , a blessing of the wreath” was included in the Book of Blessings.

I have relatives who recall the presence of an Advent wreath on their Church in the 1950s. The custom in that parish at the time was 3 white candles and one purple. I don’t know if that trend was local or more widespread, nor do I know whether the parish was following the minimal “wreath plus some purple = Advent wreath” understanding popular at the time, or just saving money with fewer expensive purple candles.

In any case a request to include a wreath blessing in the Book of Blessings didn’t come out of thin air. Clearly the use of Advent wreaths in churches must have already been common enough that the request was made and granted.
 
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