Adventist Debate

[andrewstx]

SDAs don’t avoid pork of shellfish for heath reasons, after all shellfish is very healthy and their are lean cuts of pork available to.

The reason is that they are a mix of Jewish and Christianity and follow the kosher laws to a great extent.

They dont kosher their meat with salt or seperate meat and dairy but otherwise they eat kosher.

The SDAs are the precurser to messianic “jews”.

 

[Pythons]

There really isn’t much debate between the historic Christian Faith and what’s known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church…
…The SDA’s rely on various smoke screens and crafty ellipses of historical documents or articles to gather sheep.
…ROME’S CHALLENGE is one such example.

Once it’s realized that the SDA’s repudiate the Doctrine of the Trinity the debate is essentially over…
…And the SDA’s run for cover as fast as they can.

The SDA’s are convinced that the early Christian Church became corrupted, and, by a clever plan of Lucifer…
…Evil Bishops pulled a Pen & Teller swap and replaced the true Saturday Sabbath.
…With the day of the Sun god which they claim is Sunday.

It’s further promulgated by the SDA’s that because God created the earth in 6 literal days then rested on the 7th…
…The 7th day of the week thus becomes the “mark of God”.
…The reasoning following is that Sunday must be the mark of the Beast of St John’s Revelation.

So, the SDA’s believe that Christians “who go to Church on Sunday” are paying homage to Lucifer…
…Because they are accepting the mark of Lucifer ( which they interpret as Sunday ).
…As odd and alien as this teaching is unfortunately it’s not the worst part of their theology.

SDA’s are required to believe that the Pre-Incarnate Christ was infused with a “CONDITIONAL DEITY”…
…Sort of “God Power” on loan from ultimate God ( The Father ).
…Thus, Christ had to live perfectly and not sin - otherwise Father God would have extracted Christ’s Deity.
…And annihilated Christ causing whatever it was that Christ was prior to coming to earth.
…TO ETERNALLY CEASE TO EXIST.

Aside from the above MASSIVE departure from Orthodox Christian Doctrine the SDA’s…
…Could almost be compared with some various fundamental denominations.
…Aside from their soul sleeping teaching.

 

[ChrisB103]

Naw. We still keep the Sabbath holy. We just go to church on Sunday. It’s a common assumption, but an assumption none-the-less, that “keep it holy” means go to church, but there’s no real reason to believe that.

My understanding of this topic is that we follow the Moral Law that the Ten Commandments are based on. For the Third Commandment, we see that the Moral Law requires that we worship God on a particular day. In the Old Covenant, this day was the Sabbath. In the New Covenant, it is the Lord’s Day (aka Sunday).

Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days” (KJV)

I agree with others that this would be quite a difficult debate to prove your point in from the Bible alone. Personally, I think this topic is best handled by getting back to the authority behind all decisions, especially the authority to promulgate which books are in the Bible.

 

[Eileen_T]

My understanding of this topic is that we follow the Moral Law that the Ten Commandments are based on. For the Third Commandment, we see that the Moral Law requires that we worship God on a particular day. In the Old Covenant, this day was the Sabbath. In the New Covenant, it is the Lord’s Day (aka Sunday).

Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days” (KJV)

I agree with others that this would be quite a difficult debate to prove your point in from the Bible alone. Personally, I think this topic is best handled by getting back to the authority behind all decisions, especially the authority to promulgate which books are in the Bible.

In the early days of my friendship with a SDA co-worker, before he realised how strong I was in my faith, I concluded a discussion we were having with that very point: “It all comes down to Authority.” He was unprepared to debate that point and so we left it there.

So, what I learned from that was that, before discussing/defending any Catholic Teaching, Beliefs or Doctrine, we first have to deal with the issue of Authority. If we can agree on this point, everything else falls into place. If we can’t agree, discussing anything else will go nowhere.

:twocents:

 

[Barbkw]

I have a friend, and we like to debate some of out belief’s.

*Firstly came the debate of the Sabbath, they state that humans does not have the power to change the day.

*Then the Old Testaments laws, I said we are not bound to them, because it was fulfilled by Jesus himself (I need Biblical proof or something similar)

*He said to me, if we don’t follow the old testaments laws why do we follow the 10 commandments. I said we are bound to it by Matthew 19: 16-17

If anyone can help me answer this and get some prove against this I will truly appreciate this

I watch 3ABN occassionally (after having accidentally channel surfed them once to hear them call the Catholic Church the WOB).

The latest was an hour long Catholic bash with JIm Reinking and it was over the same issues you mention.

In Scripture, in the Acts of the Apostles, they relate how they gathered together for the breaking of the bread (Eucharist) and for prayer.

According to Acts 20:7, “On the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and …

The first day of the week for Jews, was Sunday. The coming together to “break bread” was the celebration of the Eucharist.

So, even in Scripture, there is evidence that the early Church worshipped on Sunday.

This website on the early Church writings which concerned the Eucharist and Sunday worship is here:

St. Justin Martyr’s apology to Emperor Antoninus Pius, 150 AD.

ststephens1928.org/Justin’s%20Apology.htm

See also:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

 

[PRmerger]

Why do we follow the Ten Commandments but not the Biblical command to worship on Saturdays?

For this reason:

Originally posted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 2072
Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

"Of course, the moral principles contained in the Old Testament law are still binding on us, including the moral principle behind the sabbath commandment. This was that we should set aside sufficient time for worship and rest. We no longer have to do this on Saturday, since the law of Moses is gone, but we still have to do it.

To ensure that people will set aside sufficient time for worship and rest, the Church has decreed that all Catholics must refrain from menial labor on Sunday and worship God by attending Sunday Mass. Exceptions to this law are made in cases of necessity, just as with the Old Testament sabbath law (see Matt. 12:11-12, 1 Macc. 2:38-41.) For example, for those who are obliged to work on Sunday, the Church permits attendance of an anticipatory Mass on Saturday instead.

By requiring Sunday worship the Church is simply following the lead of the apostles. There was clearly a day which the early Church considered specially consecrated to the Lord. John tells us that he wrote the book of Revelation because of a vision he saw “on the Lord’s day” (Rev. 1:10).

Elsewhere we learn which day that was. In 1 Corinthians 16:2, Paul tells his readers, “On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come.” Paul exhorts his readers to get their church’s contribution together ahead of time so it won’t have to be put together when he arrives (see 2 Cor. 9:3-5).

He tells them when to contribute to the gift: every first day of the week–every Sunday. Why? Because that is the day the early Church met for worship. Even though the Old Testament sabbath had passed away, the early Church commemorated Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the first day of the week, because that was the day Christ arose (Mark 16:9, see also Mark 16:2 and Luke 24:1)."

source: archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9312chap.asp

 

[Barbkw]

“on the Lord’s day” (Rev. 1:10).

It must be that Adventist preachers don’t see Sacred Scripture as a completed whole.

God the Father creates the universe, the animals, humanity and then He “rests”.

The Son of God “rests” on Saturday and then rises on Sunday to bring all people to Himself.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I would ask him quite simplely ask him if he is following all 600+ of the old testements Laws and if not WHY?

 

[Nicea325]

I have a friend, and we like to debate some of out belief’s.

*Firstly came the debate of the Sabbath, they state that humans does not have the power to change the day.

*Then the Old Testaments laws, I said we are not bound to them, because it was fulfilled by Jesus himself (I need Biblical proof or something similar)

*He said to me, if we don’t follow the old testaments laws why do we follow the 10 commandments. I said we are bound to it by Matthew 19: 16-17

If anyone can help me answer this and get some prove against this I will truly appreciate this

Okay,but does not Jesus say in Mark he is Lord over the Sabbath? Is your friend following all other OT laws and rituals? Either they he is or is not.Is he a Christian or a Jew? Cannot have it both ways.

 

[chero23]

Whenever you have your discussion with your friend, have him look up Constantine Law of Religion. Many SDAs believe that the pope changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday sometime in the year 300.
My gf is SDA and I told her, history does not lie if you see the facts. We looked it up together and it came out that Constantine allowed Christians to celebrate openly, it even stated that these early Chrisitians were celebrating on Sundays. When she saw that she started shaking her head, saying no. I told her history does not lie. She insisted that it was my church (Catholic) who had changed the Sabbath. i told her, look theirs ppl who wrote down things about the early church, and they all say that the early church was celebrating on Sundays. Her response was typical of a Protestant, it’s not in the Bible.
Another big issue I had with her was about food. She told me that the bible says that we should not eat pork, shrimp and shellfish. One day i was with her family, and her brother said, eating pork is immoral. I knew that he said that b/c I was in the room. So i started looking up info to argue against his statement. I told her, you know in Acts 10:11-15. God appears to Peter and he tells him that he can eat anything from the blanket. She said that’s the only verse in the bible that states that, but he was talking bout something else. I told her, I see you again on Thursday, and Ill show you more verses from the New Testament that state that. So we meet on Thursday again, and I showed her the following verses, Mark 7:14-23: Romans 14:1-14; Acts 15:27-29; 1Timothy 4:1-5. We read each verse and she says, The Bible doesn’t contradict itself. i told her of course it doesn’t, ya make it contradict itself.
Arguing with SDA will be difficult man, whenver my GF and me don’t talk about it our relationships is fine

 

[Crescentinus]

The SDAs are infamous for their anti-Catholicism and they rival the Reformed when it comes to debates. Whenever I encounter SDAs trying to convert me, I go off charging decisively against their errors.

 

[chero23]

The SDAs are infamous for their anti-Catholicism and they rival the Reformed when it comes to debates. Whenever I encounter SDAs trying to convert me, I go off charging decisively against their errors.

What I did was go lookup stuff on the internet from Catholic Apologists. Its like I told my GF i know and love my faith but before if she asked me something about the Pope or Purgatory I would stumble on the question. Whenever her or any protestant asked about something it never questioned me about my religion. For a month I got information from Michael Cumbie, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, 2 Spanish Guys, and Scripture Catholic. Com. I got everything from the Pope, Mary, Purgatory, Confessing to a Priest, Apostolic Sucession, Only Bible, Saints, Images. Even if you were to paly by their game and show them with the Bible their still going to question you and tell you the Bible doesn’t contradict itself. Have faith in our Catholic Church man

 

[Crescentinus]

What I did was go lookup stuff on the internet from Catholic Apologists. Its like I told my GF i know and love my faith but before if she asked me something about the Pope or Purgatory I would stumble on the question. Whenever her or any protestant asked about something it never questioned me about my religion. For a month I got information from Michael Cumbie, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, 2 Spanish Guys, and Scripture Catholic. Com. I got everything from the Pope, Mary, Purgatory, Confessing to a Priest, Apostolic Sucession, Only Bible, Saints, Images. Even if you were to paly by their game and show them with the Bible their still going to question you and tell you the Bible doesn’t contradict itself. Have faith in our Catholic Church man

I used that as well as being fiery.
One of these days, I’ll ask them about how biblical is their “The Great Controversy”.
Once their logical arguments have been refuted, they generally go for the ad hominems.

 

[chero23]

I used that as well as being fiery.
One of these days, I’ll ask them about how biblical is their “The Great Controversy”.
Once their logical arguments have been refuted, they generally go for the ad hominems.

They contradict themselves so much man, it really is not worth arguing about. I remember when my GF told me that her church doesn’t preach against anybody. Well one day that I stepped into her church they were talking about the Catholic Church. i looked at her and told her I thought that ya don’t talk about other churches. If you look at their posts, they believe that were the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the Antichrist. Just those 2 comments right there are wrong and also it goes against the Bible.

 

[Crescentinus]

They contradict themselves so much man, it really is not worth arguing about. I remember when my GF told me that her church doesn’t preach against anybody. Well one day that I stepped into her church they were talking about the Catholic Church. i looked at her and told her I thought that ya don’t talk about other churches. If you look at their posts, they believe that were the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the Antichrist. Just those 2 comments right there are wrong and also it goes against the Bible.

Odd that whenever I use their tactics against them, they generally tend to lose it and start the ad hominem attacks.

 

[Pythons]

It’s quite simple to stop them dead in their tracks with showing them that Ellen White rebuked the Trinity.

 

[Crescentinus]

It’s quite simple to stop them dead in their tracks with showing them that Ellen White rebuked the Trinity.

Wait.
Where did she do that?

 

[chero23]

I was talking to my gf and she told me that the Crusades which started in the 11th Century supposedly it was Prophesised in the Bible. To be more exact in the Book of Daniel. Ask your friend whose also a SDA if they believe that? If anybody reads this post and has some knowledge could I get an answer

 

[andrewstx]

I was talking to my gf and she told me that the Crusades which started in the 11th Century supposedly it was Prophesised in the Bible. To be more exact in the Book of Daniel. Ask your friend whose also a SDA if they believe that? If anybody reads this post and has some knowledge could I get an answer

If Revelation and Daniel did not exist for the SDAs to misunderstand literaLLY and wrongly the SDA cult could not exist.

Crescent… do the SDAs have a lot of influence in your county? Here in the US they have very little infuence.

I’m glad, I find kosher “christianity” quite odd, but it is a product of it’s time. Many thought the CC was the WOB, and people got away with stealing others written work.

Ellen White plagarised the “Great Controversy” it was not her own.

The end of the world scenario was also popular at that time with peoples
setting dates for the end, and resetting them when nothing happened.

The Jehovah Witnessess were invented about the same time with very simuar doctrine to the SDAs.

 

[Crescentinus]

If Revelation and Daniel did not exist for the SDAs to misunderstand literaLLY and wrongly the SDA cult could not exist.

Crescent… do the SDAs have a lot of influence in your county? Here in the US they have very little infuence.

I’m glad, I find kosher “christianity” quite odd, but it is a product of it’s time. Many thought the CC was the WOB, and people got away with stealing others written work.

Ellen White plagarised the “Great Controversy” it was not her own.

The end of the world scenario was also popular at that time with peoples
setting dates for the end, and resetting them when nothing happened.

The Jehovah Witnessess were invented about the same time with very simuar doctrine to the SDAs.

They don’t have a lot of influence here in Manila, but on FaceBook, I keep running into them for some reason. One of these days, I’ll do something to reverse the tide.