Adventists visited again..........

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I agree with Sixtuss post in that it is very easy to take passages of Scripture, often out of context, and use them to prove your point, or your churchs particular doctrine. We seen this done all the time with “proofs” that people represent to us on these threads. Often, the Scripture is taken out of context or reinterpreted. This isn`t done with misintent. The poster genuinely believes that is what it means.

There is a key difference with the way we read the Bible however. Catholics take into account, not only what the passage says, but the historical context within which it was said etc. We do not read the passages in isolation. ( It is hard for me to explain what I want to say. Amils said it much better on a former post, that I think was wiped out in the summer 06 computer crash.)

For me, the Catholic interpretation of Scripture is the only interpretation that does not contain any contradictions. Once I sat down with a good study Bible, read the background within which the chapter was put together, with explanations on translation and vocabulary, I began to have a much better undestanding of the Bible.

One such example is the use of the term brother. Adventists, and some other Protestants, read it in the literal sense, and as a result, believe Jesus had actual blood-related siblings. But the cultural norm at the time tells us that the term brother was also used in a more broad sense.

Catholics also take into acount the writings of early Christians who succeeded the apostles (early Church Fathers) and oral teachings which have been passed down (Tradition).

On the other hand, some Adventists, however unwittingly, read the Bible through the intellectual lens of Ellen White (see the SDA Clearwood Bible). As a result, even when they read a “Catholic” version of the Bible, they are still seeing it in the way it was taught to them in the Adventist Church, which brings a certain bias to their interpretation.

Scott Hanh remarked in many of his books that after he converted to Catholicism, he realized he had only been reading “parts” of the Bible. He always focused on the same passages, while subconciously skimming over, some of the other parts. When he looked back to old study Bibles of his, he noticed that the same parts were always highlighted, and the same parts were not.

When I read Galatians, I often think of Adventists, and I am sure they think of us.

Catholics and Protestants (including Adventists) can argue until “the cows come home” but we won`t convince each other due to the different resources we use when interpreting the Bible. I just hope that our Adventists friends can come away with this forum understanding why Catholics believe what they believe, and recognize that in many cases, they have been misinformed on what, and why, the Catholic Church teaches.

Sincerely,
Maria1212
 
I`m adventist and I never heard one fellow advenstist saying ratzinger is supposed to be the last pope. And if there is an adventist saying such thing (or any other christian) then I have no idea how on earth would he come to that conclusion.

The way I see it is that, yes, we have many differences but I`d rather spend my time witnessing to a depressed atheist then trying to convert one christian to another christian church. I think satan has done enough damage already dividing christianity in one million different denominations, we should heavily focus on introducing Jesus Christ to the people who lost all faith and hope in a better future. 😉
Dear Pedja,

Welcome to the Thread! I am very glad to see you posting. If you look through some of the threads on Adventism, you will see some Adventists may have confused their personal beliefs with that of official Adventists doctrine. Some of their beliefs may be considered “fringe” by the official Adventist Church. How can we distinguish between official Adventist teaching, and that of personal opinion or matters still under debate in the Adventist Church?
I admire your attitude on the importance of bring Jesus Christ to those who do not know him. I agree with you that we all need to work very hard to do this. But I have also noticed that many Adventists have many misunderstandings about Catholicism, and have been taught things which are simply not true. This has resulted in many Adventists having a deep fear and mistrust of the Catholic Church. As a Catholic, I feel it is my responsibility to do what I can to correct these misunderstandings.

My intention, that many on this thread share, is to explain why Catholics believe what we believe, and how we “know what we know.”

I am very glad you joined our discussion and know your participation will help us gain a better, more accurate, understanding of Adventism.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
I agree with Sixtuss post in that it is very easy to take passages of Scripture, often out of context, and use them to prove your point, or your churchs particular doctrine. We seen this done all the time with “proofs” that people represent to us on these threads. Often, the Scripture is taken out of context or reinterpreted. This isn`t done with misintent. The poster genuinely believes that is what it means.

There is a key difference with the way we read the Bible however. Catholics take into account, not only what the passage says, but the historical context within which it was said etc. We do not read the passages in isolation. ( It is hard for me to explain what I want to say. Amils said it much better on a former post, that I think was wiped out in the summer 06 computer crash.)

For me, the Catholic interpretation of Scripture is the only interpretation that does not contain any contradictions. Once I sat down with a good study Bible, read the background within which the chapter was put together, with explanations on translation and vocabulary, I began to have a much better undestanding of the Bible.

One such example is the use of the term brother. Adventists, and some other Protestants, read it in the literal sense, and as a result, believe Jesus had actual blood-related siblings. But the cultural norm at the time tells us that the term brother was also used in a more broad sense.

Catholics also take into acount the writings of early Christians who succeeded the apostles (early Church Fathers) and oral teachings which have been passed down (Tradition).

On the other hand, some Adventists, however unwittingly, read the Bible through the intellectual lens of Ellen White (see the SDA Clearwood Bible). As a result, even when they read a “Catholic” version of the Bible, they are still seeing it in the way it was taught to them in the Adventist Church, which brings a certain bias to their interpretation.

Scott Hanh remarked in many of his books that after he converted to Catholicism, he realized he had only been reading “parts” of the Bible. He always focused on the same passages, while subconciously skimming over, some of the other parts. When he looked back to old study Bibles of his, he noticed that the same parts were always highlighted, and the same parts were not.

When I read Galatians, I often think of Adventists, and I am sure they think of us.

Catholics and Protestants (including Adventists) can argue until “the cows come home” but we won`t convince each other due to the different resources we use when interpreting the Bible. I just hope that our Adventists friends can come away with this forum understanding why Catholics believe what they believe, and recognize that in many cases, they have been misinformed on what, and why, the Catholic Church teaches.

Sincerely,
Maria1212
This is all very nice but I somehow experience you Catholics as well as Adventists as a little bit too fanatic for my taste. Maybe thats an American thing, I dont know, I kinda have the feeling that here in Europe people are more chilled out about that. All this we are right no, we are right actually bores me to death especially because I am in such a Christian-hostile environment that I am happy if I meet somebody who is not a militant atheist but at least a moderate one you can talk to. So my priorities are basically, as I said before, to introduce people to God, give them a Bible and help them out as much as I can. I believe that the Holy Spirit is doing the rest. I tell people listen man, this is what I believe but you make your own choice. If you wanna worship on the Sabbath or the Sunday or a Wednesday, do whatever you feel God wants you to do, but Im just very very tired of all this fighting and arguing, this is utterly pointless to me. So forgive me if I don’t consider the Catholic church to be the true one, I had very negative experiences as I was in a war fighting against them after they killed half of my relatives with weapons previously being blessed by a Catholic priest (I`m not kidding). But that was a long time ago and I got no problems with any people, religions, whatsoever. My target is atheists, people who know nothing about the good news.
 
Dear Pedja,

Thank you for your post. I am sorry you have had negative experiences with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners who need forgiveness. Even Peter betrayed Jesus. It is often hard to separate individual sinners, from the overall Church as a whole. I struggle with having to love my enemy every day, so I completely understand your hostility toward the Church.

I often grow weary from all of the division within the Christian community. But just as we reach out to non-Christians, it is important to work on bridging the misunderstandings we have with each other. I have learned an enormous amount from participating in these threads. Even if you only read, and do not post, I am sure you will have the same experience.

We are not here to convince you the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can lead a person to that conclusion. We are to explain why we believe what we believe, and to show how it is faithful to Christ`s teachings.

I agree with you in that I do not care what day Adventists choose to worship God on, or what day they choose to keep the Sabbath. As a Catholic, I am fortunate enough to be able to attend Mass every day. But I do honor Sunday as the Lords day and follow Gods commandment to keep the Sabbath. But I often go to the Saturday Vigil Mass when I am not able to go to Church on Sundays. What matters is that we are worshipping God. The specific 24 hour time frame in which we do this is not what matters. I agree with you on this, but unfortunately, most Adventists see this in a very different way. As you know, the Adventist Church teaches that those who worship on Sunday, have the mark of the beast, or will have the mark of be beast at the end times. I disagree.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
I am a Roman Catholic and want someone to convince me that they are the true church of Christ other than the Catholics.

I will open with a question

Where did the protestants get their bible?

Why did they remove some books?

Why won’t a Jew believe in their own writtings and prophets such as Issaiah.

How many prayers must a Moslem say before he gets to heaven or in any case how does a Moslem get to heaven?
 
Dear Pedja,

Thank you for your post. I am sorry you have had negative experiences with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners who need forgiveness. Even Peter betrayed Jesus. It is often hard to separate individual sinners, from the overall Church as a whole. I struggle with having to love my enemy every day, so I completely understand your hostility toward the Church.

I often grow weary from all of the division within the Christian community. But just as we reach out to non-Christians, it is important to work on bridging the misunderstandings we have with each other. I have learned an enormous amount from participating in these threads. Even if you only read, and do not post, I am sure you will have the same experience.

We are not here to convince you the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can lead a person to that conclusion. We are to explain why we believe what we believe, and to show how it is faithful to Christ`s teachings.

I agree with you in that I do not care what day Adventists choose to worship God on, or what day they choose to keep the Sabbath. As a Catholic, I am fortunate enough to be able to attend Mass every day. But I do honor Sunday as the Lords day and follow Gods commandment to keep the Sabbath. But I often go to the Saturday Vigil Mass when I am not able to go to Church on Sundays. What matters is that we are worshipping God. The specific 24 hour time frame in which we do this is not what matters. I agree with you on this, but unfortunately, most Adventists see this in a very different way. As you know, the Adventist Church teaches that those who worship on Sunday, have the mark of the beast, or will have the mark of be beast at the end times. I disagree.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
I have no hostility towards the church at all.

In my opinion you can spend years in debating with people who are closed minded and loads of you Catholics are totally rejecting any other reality then the one you conceive to be true. Same goes for Adventists. So whats the point in debating when you want to convince me that, for example, Sunday is the right day and I say its the Sabbath. It`s totally illogical and we will only waste time. Or like this guy who just posted, “I am right, prove me wrong if you can”. Dude this is so too much, as if this is all kind of a trivial pursuit game where we bomb each others with millions of Bible texts in order to prove who’s right!

The mark of the beast teaching is also not the same everywhere, people study the Bible constantly, day and night, they learn new things and reject old ones, but in the meantime whoever says you all will burn because you go to church on Sunday, he is most certainly insane and needs help. And again the same goes for fanatics on your side who’d like to bring back the inquisition of possible.
 
Pedga

when was the 1st formation of the adventists?

Give me a little history
 
Sad…no, it has nothing to do with hate, and it is not based on anything to do with you.

The Bible identifies the RCC in the Bible…you people don’t realize this because you have not the Spirit of Prophecy in you.
The Bible does indentify the Catholic Church as being founded by Christ, as his body, and as his bride.
 
The adventists are a spin off of the millerites. After the debacles of 1843 and 1844 (the Great Disappointment) some did not learn their lesson. They ended up forming the adventist movement. The idea being that Jesus really did return, but did so invisibiliy in heaven. The very beginnings of their movement are marked by a prophesy that was false.
 
I have no hostility towards the church at all.

In my opinion you can spend years in debating with people who are closed minded and loads of you Catholics are totally rejecting any other reality then the one you conceive to be true. Same goes for Adventists. So whats the point in debating when you want to convince me that, for example, Sunday is the right day and I say its the Sabbath. It`s totally illogical and we will only waste time. Or like this guy who just posted, “I am right, prove me wrong if you can”. Dude this is so too much, as if this is all kind of a trivial pursuit game where we bomb each others with millions of Bible texts in order to prove who’s right!

The mark of the beast teaching is also not the same everywhere, people study the Bible constantly, day and night, they learn new things and reject old ones, but in the meantime whoever says you all will burn because you go to church on Sunday, he is most certainly insane and needs help. And again the same goes for fanatics on your side who’d like to bring back the inquisition of possible.
I see things quite differently. I am here to explain the Catholic faith to those willing to listen. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I am here to explain why I believe what I believe. I am also hear to learn about other people`s beliefs to try to better understand the reasoning behind what they believe.

Unlike many Protestant denominations, Adventism included, our doctrine has not changed since Jesus first established our Church. Some traditions have changed, such as saying the Mass in the local language rather than Latin, but the teachings we received from Christ and his apostles ahve not changed. The way we teach has evolved, but what we teach has not changed.

Of course, that makes Catholics very unpopular to some groups, such as those who support murder via abortion.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
It is well known how the Adventists criticise the CC on the Inquisitions. To the exent of exagerating to claim the CC killed more people than were alive on the planet at the time of the Inquisitions.

Does it follow therefore that anyone who opposed the Inquisitions by definition support the teachings of those to whom the Inquisitions directly opposed?

I just wonder because there have been religious fanatics spring up thoughout history. Most are harmless enough and do no real harm [if you can call leading folk astray as ‘no harm’]. But those groups who gained prominence and who had to be challenged [see on the net for yourself] were cults which believed that satan was the incarnate brother of Christ. That God is pleased by sacrifices, that familes should sacrifice their youngest [some said oldest] male offspring to God.

There were many other bizare beliefs [go see for yourself]. Clearly these teachings are untenable. They had to be challenged. By the actions of CC the groups calling themselves Christian, which practiced human sacrifices and encouraged others to do so, became extinct. Now I call that a real result.

It is also a fact the bible supports inquisition 👍
 
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