Advice Appreciated - Marriage

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MPorras:
So if I understand this correctly,

if any marriage is not validized by the Catholic Church, whether it be a civil marriage between two catholics who have chosen not to marry through the Catholic Church,
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Two people who are married legally, do not have the Catholic sacrament of Marriage if they have chosen not to marry in the Catholic Church. They can be recognized as being married by having their marriage validated by the Catholic Church.
or a non-Catholic and Catholic not married by the Catholic Church,
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A non-Catholic and Catholic may not have the sacrament of Marriage in the Catholic Church unless approved by their bishop.
then by that decision alone have chosen to sacrifice the sacraments in the Catholic Church and are not able to receive them is that correct? (was that too confusing?)
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I reworded it because I was getting dizzy :o But I think you have an understanding of this.
 
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Shiann:
A non-Catholic and Catholic may not have the sacrament of Marriage in the Catholic Church unless approved by their bishop.
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Oh, man, this means my husband and I haven’t recieved the sacrament of matrimony? 😦 :crying:
I’m Catholic and my husband is unbaptized, but considers himself a Christian.
I don’t recall our priest even mentioning approval by the bishop. He just asked us to promise to raise the kids Catholic and had us sign up for a marriage workshop.
hurries off to phone priest
 
Alassëa:
Oh, man, this means my husband and I haven’t recieved the sacrament of matrimony? 😦 :crying:
I’m Catholic and my husband is unbaptized, but considers himself a Christian.
I don’t recall our priest even mentioning approval by the bishop. He just asked us to promise to raise the kids Catholic and had us sign up for a marriage workshop.
hurries off to phone priest
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I’m sorry this is a supprise. Who ever prepared you for Marriage was not complete. For a Marriage to be a Sacrament it must be first valid and both persons must be Baptized. Many times a pastor will seek and obtain the permission of the Bishop and not let you know he has done so. You will need to ask if he received a dispensation for you to marry an un-Baptized person. If so then the Marriage is valid, just not Sacramental. If and when your husband is Baptized then the Marriage at that moment becomes a Sacrament. Nothing else is needed.
 
There is a great new website for marriage information in the church.
www.inthespiritofcana.org Try it out! Put in the search area, marriage between Catholic and Muslim and you will get the needed information you are looking for. Peace to you and your family
 
The problem is not the raising of your child but that fact that you married outside of the Church. That is the situation you need to get resolved.
 
the answer is so simple as to be a no brainer. go to the parish priest and ask for a blessing on the marriage. if he doesn’t,. consider another parish.
i am an outsider, a convert, however i consider myself a legitimate catholic, maybe moreso, i have treaded el camino de la vida. i have nothing hidden from my God.
 
**2.6.11.1 Abrahamic Religion (Jewish or Muslim) **

When dealing with a marriage between a Catholic and a person of an Abrahamic religion, i.e., Jewish or Muslim, ministers should be aware of the sensitive issues facing Catholic-Jewish and Catholic-Muslim couples. In general, the Jewish community discourages Jews from marrying non-Jews. Islam permits Muslim men to marry Christians and Jews, but does not permit Muslim women to marry non-Muslims. Extra pastoral care prior to and following the wedding is essential. The Family Ministries Office has information about support groups for Catholic-Jewish and Catholic-Muslim couples in metro Chicago.

Procedure

Jewish: When the ceremony follows the Catholic form, a rabbi or a cantor can be invited to participate in the ceremony, but the Catholic priest or deacon officially witnesses the exchange of vows. Should a dispensation from the canonical form have been granted, a traditional Jewish celebration could take place at a synagogue or designated place.

Muslim: An imam or other Muslim could be invited to participate in the ceremony, but the Catholic priest or deacon officially witnesses the exchange of vows. Should a dispensation from the canonical form have been granted, am Islamic celebration could be planned. There is no traditional Islamic marriage rite other than the witnessing of the contract. Usually the marriage does not take place in a mosque.

Preparation

See Appendix C for the recommended outline to follow for optimum effective marriage preparation. This outline was designed for parishes with ample resources; not all parishes will be able to follow this exactly. See Appendix D for descriptions of the various marriage preparation programs offered through the Archdiocese. Appendix E has information about the FOCCUS Premarital Inventory. See Appendix F for information about Natural Family Planning.

Paperwork

A dispensation for disparity of cult is needed. A dispensation from canonical form is also required if the couple will be having someone other than a Catholic priest or deacon witness their vows. To obtain the dispensation, the Catholic party will be asked to affirm in some way (verbally or in writing) that he or she will promise to do all in his/her power to see that the children of the marriage be baptized and educated in the Catholic Church. The other partner is to be informed of these promises and responsibilities; the non-Catholic partner may feel a similar obligation because of his/her own religious commitment. No formal written or oral promise is required of the non-Catholic partner. In carrying out this duty of transmitting the Catholic faith to the children, the Catholic parent will do so with respect for the religious freedom and conscience of the other parent and with due regard for the unity and permanence of the marriage and for the maintenance of the communion of the family.
 
St Bruno,

Thanks for you thoughtful research and reply. Here’s another dimension to the circumstance and a matter of urgency:

I have been honored by a request from my nephew to be the godfather of his child at the child’s (Catholic) baptism. From what I understand only one of the godparents in the ceremony needs to be Catholic, and I am perceived to be that person. I told my nephew that I would be happy to be the godfather, but also warned him that I have questions about my status in the Church. My nephew accepts me unconditionally and is not concerned about the details, but I am. It has been universally declared herein that I cannot partake of Communion, so to say that my status as a Catholic is impaired seems to be a reasonable conclusion. In your opinion, am I prequalified in the eyes of the Church to be the godfather of my nephews’s son? Since I will have to decline communion, I don’t want to cause an embarassment to my nephew, our extended family or to myself. And I want my nephew’s son to have a bona-fide godfather.This question will be posed shortly to the parish pastor, but I would like to hear any thoughts or theories on this situation.

Thanks!

Brinoto
 
It is from the new archdiocese of Chicago marriage ministries website, www.inthespiritofcana.org. It took 10 years of work and it is available online. All kinds of information regarding Catholic ministry. Check it out.
 
The role of the godparent is significant. Yes, it is true, the reason we have godparents is not to act as legal guardians for the child…that takes a legal certificate in the nature of a “will”. But rather as arms and witnesses of the church we profess to believe in. Godparent need to meet specific standards as members of the church. 1. Must be at least 16yrs. 2. Baptized Catholic 3. Have received their Confirmation 4. A Practicing Catholic.
Most parishes include baptismal preparation classes for the parents and godparents to attend so they will be properly catechized not only about the sacrament but their particular roles in bringing the child up into the church. A godparent fills the gap when the parents seem to have dropped the ball. Baptism is a sacrament of Initiation, Confirmation and Eucharist are as well. We need to remember that. Therefore if they are sacraments of initiation, and not graduation in the church, we need to remain close to our church as active members to receive the full graces offerred by Her. Rarely is a sacrament of Baptism postponed because a parent does not regularly participate in the church. But as one who does preparation of this sacrament, we strongly encourage them to be shining examples of the faith, because their child is always watching them. They learn more by actions than by words. We all that know that inherently. And they pick up bad habits just as worthy ones very quickly. So as godparents, they are watching you too. If you need to get your marriage convalidated…do it, so you can readily participate in all ways with your godchild as well as for your own benefit.God bless you for exploring all these issues. God is tugging on your shirt tails, looking for you to come home in the guise of one little godchild to be.
 
Hi St Bruno

Hopefully you will continue reading this thread to know I greatly appreciate your time responding to my concern.

I will make it a point to visit the inthespiritofcana.org site you have mentioned to learn more about the issues herein. Thanks for the lead.

From what you said, my focus is knowing if I am in compliance with Church criteria with respect to item 4 in your list, “a practicing Catholic.” Is it possible to be a “a practicing Catholic” if one is NOT eligible to receive Communion and Confession?:confused:

In your opinion, would convalidation of my marriage (and eligibility to receive Communion and Confession) be a required condition to my being considered “a practicing Catholic” and an acceptable godfather in a Catholic baptism? Or, conversely, is it clear that, by definition, I am not “a practicing Catholic” because I am not eligible to receive these two Sacraments (irrespective of other activities I may engage at my parish).

Again my sincere thanks. God bless you for the interest and concern you have shown to me.

Brinoto
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"Godparent need to meet specific standards as members of the church. 1. Must be at least 16yrs. 2. Baptized Catholic 3. Have received their Confirmation 4. A Practicing Catholic.

Most parishes include baptismal preparation classes for the parents and godparents to attend…"
 
The ideal is to have a practicing Catholic godparent. The ideal is to have two practicing Catholic parents especially, but in reality in most cases that is not happening today. The church does not turn its back on either and deny Baptism of the child. To be a practicing Catholic in the fullest sense, convalidation would be your best bet. But that does not mean you should not be working toward holiness…for example resume going to regular Mass, go to Confession…go in for further spiritual direction with a priest or someone who is a trained spiritual director in your diocese. Most important, pray and pray and pray some more. Speak clearly about your desires to your mate as well. God is leading you some where. I will keep you in my prayers as well.
 
I believe you have one of two things needed to make a great Godfather in the Catholic Faith.

You have shown that you have the introspectiveness that is necessary to be a Faithfull person. You are asking questions and making discernments about your actions, and the relationships that those actions have to your Faith.

I commend your questions and do think that you are on the right path to becoming a suitable Godfather.

But,

You are certainly not currently “practicing” the fullness of the Catholic Faith. Right now, you have just thoughts- when those thoughts become actions, that is when you will be “practicing” the Faith.

No Catholic that I know of has a perfect Faith. We all make mistakes, and we all have times when we do not perfectly “practice” our Faith. But those who are quick to see the errors in thier actions, and make ammends- can be considered “practicing”.

You are merely baby steps away from fully practicing your Faith! You just need to validate your marriage, and recieve absolution!

Think of it this way:
If you were to join a fraternal organization, were initiated and welcomed to fully participate in that organization; but then neglected to go to meetings, or maintain organizational requirements, could you still be considered a member of that organization? Of course. You’ve been initiated. Are you a practicing member of that organization? I don’t think so- what do you offer back to the organization in time, assistance, or your mere presence at meetings?

I think this is the distinction we have been trying to show you. You are obviously a member of the Church, and we welcome you to join in the fullness of the Faith! To provide a good example to your Godson (which is what your job as Godfather is) is extremely important! Why accept that position if not to do the best job you can?

I will pray that you find clarity in this. Welcome home!
 
WHOA!!! I have a question here! Granted, my situation is a bit different, but here’s where my red flag went up -

WHY were you denied confession? My marriage (to a baptized/raised Catholic but neither of us practicing and we were married outside the Church) is in the convalidation process (awaiting dispensation). I have returned to practicing my faith (though my husband has not) and I enjoy the sacrament of confession - regularly at that - as well as communion. It was made clear that my husband and I “live as brother and sister” meaning no marital relations until the ceremony. I willingly make that sacrifice in order to grow closer to God through the Sacraments available to me.

WHY would a priest refuse someone confession? Valid marriage or not??

=(
Fiz
 
Maybe Brinoto had not initiated the validation process, and did not indicate that he would. The priest would therefore have no clear indication that the poster was contrite.

The fact that Brinoto has now made his desire to come back to the Church aside.

I believe the priest was making a decision based on the information he was given.

Apparently your priest had enough information, and was comforted by your actions to validate your marriage- to determine your solid intent to practice the Faith.

Dunnoo… just a guess.
 
I spent 45 minutes adding/clarifying points and thanking all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut - but for some reason the message deleted when I attempted to post it. Anyway, I thank all of you and wll return when I find out more - which I expect will be in a few days.

Blessings to all of you. I tend to think God rewards us for trying, not necessarily only when we succeed.

Brinoto
 
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Fizendell:
WHOA!!! I have a question here! Granted, my situation is a bit different, but here’s where my red flag went up -

WHY were you denied confession? My marriage (to a baptized/raised Catholic but neither of us practicing and we were married outside the Church) is in the convalidation process (awaiting dispensation). I have returned to practicing my faith (though my husband has not) and I enjoy the sacrament of confession - regularly at that - as well as communion. It was made clear that my husband and I “live as brother and sister” meaning no marital relations until the ceremony. I willingly make that sacrifice in order to grow closer to God through the Sacraments available to me.

WHY would a priest refuse someone confession? Valid marriage or not??

=(
Fiz
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Because a person cannot approach any Sacrament in a state of sin that they are not willing to turn away from. A person “living” in a state of sin in an invalid or irregular Marriage cannot approach any Sacrament. Except as you posted in your situation.
 
Thanks to all of you who took the time to offer comments and advice. With respect to the Sacraments, specifically regarding my eligibility to partake, I understand now the Church’s position and the concept of “convalidation.” It is a matter of (church) law.

Regarding my question concerning eligibility to be a Godfather in a Catholic Baptism, given my un-convalidated status, following is the reply of my paster who answered my inquiry by email"

"The short and quick answer is that you may be the Godparent at the Baptism.

The relevant canon in the Code of Canon Law is #874 which indicates that a person cannot be a Godparent if he or she is under a “penalty.” All of the penalties are listed in canons 1311 and following. Those penalties are for extremely serious offenses involving things like teaching heresy or violence against others. Your marriage situation is not included so you are in good shape.

Just so that you know, individual Pastors may choose to add qualifications for Baptisms in their particular parish, which they can do. For example, a Pastor may require that Godparents live in the parish, or be married in the church, or be contributing members. That is why it is sometimes confusing for people to hear about one person being refused as a Godparent while another is allowed for the same reasons.

Since I am the Pastor of this parish I have chosen to accept the general guidelines of the church which certainly allows you to be chosen. I am also glad they have chosen you because you sound like just the kind of person the Church has in mind when they look for Godparents.

Congratulations, and God bless!"
 
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