Advice - Infidelity

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jwashu

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One of my employees is going through a very difficult time, I know what I have told him I would do but I thought I would pose the question here to see if you guys agree.

While he has only worked for me about a year we have gotten pretty close, here is his situation. He and his wife have been married for quite a while, approaching 20 years I think. Early on in their marriage they had trouble getting pregnant. After a few years of trying and a miscarriage, which apparently this guy didn’t handle well, they tried some fertility drug. Apparently this drug effects a lot of women differently and it made his wife angry all the time, they started having issues and were planning to separate.

He had one friend at work, a new friend - apparently they did couples stuff together, who he confided much of the difficulties of his marriage with looking for advice. While they were separated he found out this person had been taking that knowledge and using it to woo his wife. He warned her of this when they got back together, she said that this person had nothing to do with them separating for a while. After the separation when they decided to get back together and focus on their vows, love and to continue working towards having children together he pretty much caught this person and his wife having intercourse. He didn’t but she had been over at his house while his wife was away and ran home to take a shower before this guy could get home. Obviously he asked and pleaded with her but she denied anything happened. Because he loved her he believed her and they set out to rebuild their lives.

Since that time they have had multiple children and a very happy life. However often he would ask her about that day and she always responded with no, nothing happened.

That’s the history to the best of my knowledge, what seems to have happened is that he finally pressured her enough that she admitted sleeping with this person over a decade ago and has been lying to him while they have had 5 children. She told him when it started she knew it was a mistake, but apparently didn’t stop it, and has felt guilty all this time and couldn’t continue to hurt him any longer or herself. He said he has been actively trying to pry this out the whole time but since they have some friends who are divorcing because of the same issue, yet multiple times and full blow affairs, he finally forced her into a confession.

They are Catholic, my advice was for them to talk to their Priest as couple but if she has been faithful, which he believes she has, and they truly love each other they should try to work it out and put it behind them. She swears and he believes her that this only happened that one time and there was protection. He has been a wreck though the past couple of weeks. He is from a very devout Catholic family and prided the strength of their marriage vs that of many of their friends only to find out he was cheated on and the lied to for many years. It sounds like his wife, the mother of their children is willing to do whatever, and has for many years, to be the the wife she should have been all along.

Did I tell him the right thing? I know a lot of times on the board people are like, he cheated? looked at porn? leave him when it’s the guy. I usually don’t agree with those posts but seeing the pain he is obviously going through I’m not sure what else I can say or do. There might not be anything which may be why I’m second guessing my advice… thoughts?

In Christ,
Joe
 
I think you gave him the best advice you can give. They need to talk to their priest. If he can forgive her and move forward that would be wonderful.

I see a lot of threads here about cheating. The is the 1st one I’ve seen where the affair was over a decade ago. Of course he’s mad and hurt. A meeting with his priest is a great place to start.

I’m praying for them.
 
They also may need a good marriage therapist as well as a priest. sounds like such a sad situation. The best thing for you to do is tell him that you are praying for them. people don’t realize what a tangled web their moral sins create for themselves until they are caught in it.
 
Your advice was good.

I question what he thought he was going to solve asking about something that may or may not have happened 10 years and five kids later unless he thinks one kid it the other man’s child.

If you don’t think you are going to like the answer, don’t ask the question. Apparently, everything else has been going okay in their marriage so why go back to that one night out of 20 years?

Yes, there are many marriages that have continued after a spouse has discovered his/her other has been unfaithful.
 
He kept asking because he said he pretty much caught them and felt like there was something between them. He said he was accusing her of current infidelity because he has felt like she was lying about something or there was something between them. I guesshe felt like he needed the truth.

That was one of my first thoughts as well… let sleeping dogs lie. However I think it was effecting his trust, if he felt she lied to him about this and had for all this time, what else was she lying about.

Thanks for the feedback, going to check to see if he has talked to his Priest yet.
 
jwashu said:
He kept asking because he said he pretty much caught them and felt like there was something between them. He said he was accusing her of current infidelity because he has felt like she was lying about something or there was something between them. I guesshe felt like he needed the truth.

That was one of my first thoughts as well… let sleeping dogs lie. However I think it was effecting his trust, if he felt she lied to him about this and had for all this time, what else was she lying about.

Thanks for the feedback, going to check to see if he has talked to his Priest yet.
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They might want to consider the Retrouvaille program. From what I understand (no firsthand experience) it is focused on rebuilding communication in troubled marriages.

retrouvaille.org/
 
I might be the odd one out here, but I can definitely see his point. He caught her nearly “red-handed”, and he took her back and continued to live with her. But he wanted truth from her. All the ten years since her adultery are called into question not only because of the adultery itself, but because of the lying cover-up. She has lied to him for ten years. That would be devastating to his trust.

Obviously, the wife should have committed adultery, but furthermore, she should not have lied about it afterward. Basically, she got him to stay with her under false pretenses. The ten years of their marriage after her adultery are now also called into question.

“Let sleeping dogs lie”? Really? We are talking about adultery here, the most heinous sort of betrayal possible. Not only did she betray him, but then she lied about it afterward. He has every right to feel angry, hurt, and upset, and she has NO ONE to blame but herself.
 
Sillara said:
I might be the odd one out here, but I can definitely see his point. He caught her nearly “red-handed”, and he took her back and continued to live with her. But he wanted truth from her. All the ten years since her adultery are called into question not only because of the adultery itself, but because of the lying cover-up. She has lied to him for ten years. That would be devastating to his trust.

Obviously, the wife should have committed adultery, but furthermore, she should not have lied about it afterward. Basically, she got him to stay with her under false pretenses. The ten years of their marriage after her adultery are now also called into question.

“Let sleeping dogs lie”? Really? We are talking about adultery here, the most heinous sort of betrayal possible. Not only did she betray him, but then she lied about it afterward. He has every right to feel angry, hurt, and upset, and she has NO ONE to blame but herself.
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Ten years and five kids later, he finally got it out of her and what good has it done for him? He’s a wreck. Is he any better off than before he knew. First, they were separated when it happened. The woman ended the affair, stayed with him and had a bunch of kids with him but that wasn’t good enough. She obviously loved him more than the other guy.

He needs to go see a counselor of some sort and find out why he was obsessed with this. Want does he want? He badgered her for 10 years and finally got the truth. Now he’s a wreck because he should have had the truth 10 years earlier so he can now badger her about her lying.
 
aicirt said:
Ten years and five kids later, he finally got it out of her and what good has it done for him? He’s a wreck. Is he any better off than before he knew. First, they were separated when it happened. The woman ended the affair, stayed with him and had a bunch of kids with him but that wasn’t good enough. She obviously loved him more than the other guy.

He needs to go see a counselor of some sort and find out why he was obsessed with this. Want does he want? He badgered her for 10 years and finally got the truth. Now he’s a wreck because he should have had the truth 10 years earlier so he can now badger her about her lying.
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The thing I think is missing from your answer is that throughout all those ten years she continued to lie. She gave him ten years and five children – but she lied about it. “Ending the affair” is not some big favor she did her husband. It was what she owed him by her own marital vows. Whether she “loved him more” than she loved the other guy is almost beside the point. She vowed fidelity to her husband, and she did not give it to him. She owed him truth, too, and she did not give it to him. (But, by the by, her adulterous partner got not only the sex she had promised to her husband alone, but also the truth that her husband did not get, either.)

People are writing as though these ten years were perfect. Obviously, they were not because he continued to be haunted by suspicions.

The Church tells us that it is praiseworthy, virtuous, and commendable for a partner to resume conjugal life with an adulterous spouse – but that is NOT required by the Church. The Church states that in the case of adultery, the betrayed spouse is not required to resume conjugal life. (Forgiveness is necessary, as is fidelity to the vows, but the resumption of conjugal life is NOT required.) This means that the betrayed spouse, NOT the adulterous spouse, gets to make the call about continuing conjugal life. By lying, the adulterous spouse, the wife in this case, took that decision from her husband and made it for him. She lied, and now all her actions since the lie are suspect.

It is not pleasant, and it is not something easily fixed. But it is something that the adulterous wife laid herself open to when she committed adultery and then lied about it.

It is NOT the fault of the husband in ANY way. He deserved fidelity and truth from his wife, and he got adultery followed by lies.

Why is he being blamed?
 
Sillara said:
The thing I think is missing from your answer is that throughout all those ten years she continued to lie. She gave him ten years and five children – but she lied about it. “Ending the affair” is not some big favor she did her husband. It was what she owed him by her own marital vows. Whether she “loved him more” than she loved the other guy is almost beside the point. She vowed fidelity to her husband, and she did not give it to him. She owed him truth, too, and she did not give it to him. (But, by the by, her adulterous partner got not only the sex she had promised to her husband alone, but also the truth that her husband did not get, either.)

People are writing as though these ten years were perfect. Obviously, they were not because he continued to be haunted by suspicions.

The Church tells us that it is praiseworthy, virtuous, and commendable for a partner to resume conjugal life with an adulterous spouse – but that is NOT required by the Church. The Church states that in the case of adultery, the betrayed spouse is not required to resume conjugal life. (Forgiveness is necessary, as is fidelity to the vows, but the resumption of conjugal life is NOT required.) This means that the betrayed spouse, NOT the adulterous spouse, gets to make the call about continuing conjugal life. By lying, the adulterous spouse, the wife in this case, took that decision from her husband and made it for him. She lied, and now all her actions since the lie are suspect.

It is not pleasant, and it is not something easily fixed. But it is something that the adulterous wife laid herself open to when she committed adultery and then lied about it.

It is NOT the fault of the husband in ANY way. He deserved fidelity and truth from his wife, and he got adultery followed by lies.

Why is he being blamed?
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He isn’t being blamed. I just cannot understand why he hasn’t gotten on with his life after an affair that happened 20 years ago when they separated.

“Ending the affair” was a good start on her part. Apparently, she hasn’t seen the guy or brought up his name since then but husband has continued to ask the same question. Maybe wife figured that hubby couldn’t handle the truth. So there she is having hubby’s children and, because he’s so fragile, if she tells him the truth it will disrupt the whole family. Finally, he gets the truth out of her and it ends up just as she suspected. Now she’s going to be badgered regarding why she hadn’t told him the truth before.

“All her actions since the lie are suspect” like what? He’s had no complaints about her since.

Apparently, hubby was happy enough to have her back and have five kids with her. During this time they’ve made a life, made memories, built a home. What happened 20 yrs. ago should have long faded but not with the husband. Instead of allowing the scab to heal, he has to pick at it and finally is successful in opening up the wound. If he had been mature enough, he would have projected himself into his future and asked “What will be gained if she tells me 'Yes, I slept with so-and-so.”
 
aicirt said:
He isn’t being blamed. I just cannot understand why he hasn’t gotten on with his life after an affair that happened 20 years ago when they separated.

“Ending the affair” was a good start on her part. Apparently, she hasn’t seen the guy or brought up his name since then but husband has continued to ask the same question. Maybe wife figured that hubby couldn’t handle the truth. So there she is having hubby’s children and, because he’s so fragile, if she tells him the truth it will disrupt the whole family. Finally, he gets the truth out of her and it ends up just as she suspected. Now she’s going to be badgered regarding why she hadn’t told him the truth before.

“All her actions since the lie are suspect” like what? He’s had no complaints about her since.

Apparently, hubby was happy enough to have her back and have five kids with her. During this time they’ve made a life, made memories, built a home. What happened 20 yrs. ago should have long faded but not with the husband. Instead of allowing the scab to heal, he has to pick at it and finally is successful in opening up the wound. If he had been mature enough, he would have projected himself into his future and asked “What will be gained if she tells me 'Yes, I slept with so-and-so.”
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It is not possible to “get on with his life” after the affair because his life as he knew it ended then. It is possible for a marriage to recover from adultery, but it requires ABSOLUTE truth and TOTAL transparency. This poor man got neither.

She lied to him, and she got him to take her back under false pretenses.

Also, as Catholics, being separated has no bearing whatsoever on fidelity. But even so, it was AFTER the separation that he caught her out, or so it reads in the original post.

She has lied to him for ten years about the most heinous betrayal one spouse can offer another. If she would lie about that, what would she NOT lie about? She has proven herself untrustworthy as well as adulterous.
 
Sillara said:
It is not possible to “get on with his life” after the affair because his life as he knew it ended then. It is possible for a marriage to recover from adultery, but it requires ABSOLUTE truth and TOTAL transparency. This poor man got neither.

She lied to him, and she got him to take her back under false pretenses.

Also, as Catholics, being separated has no bearing whatsoever on fidelity. But even so, it was AFTER the separation that he caught her out, or so it reads in the original post.

She has lied to him for ten years about the most heinous betrayal one spouse can offer another. If she would lie about that, what would she NOT lie about? She has proven herself untrustworthy as well as adulterous.
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The “poor” man got 20 years in a marriage with five kids which is a lot more than most people get. He could “get on with his life” if he chose to. Instead, he dwelt on an incident that occurred two decades ago.

How about considering what made her separate from him in the first place? Actually, let’s not. Like I said before, 20 yrs. is 20 yrs. Let the stuff go. They aren’t the same people they were then.

He’s a victim because he chooses not to forgive and move on. There are people who have suffered a lot more than he and have held it together.

Here’s three scenarios that could have happened:
  1. She returned and they had five kids.
  2. She didn’t return and he never had her and never had his kids or present life.
  3. She returned and was pregnant by the other man.
He has not complained about anything she’s done sinful in the last years so how is she untrustworthy? What’s he going to do now? Declare her affair to her kids?
 
Those are good points, from what the husband understands though, and he said his wife has swared on the Bible that it was not an affiar but a one time event. He believe’s this, if he believed it was a long affair it might be different.

I agree, I don’t think he blames himself, it was her decision and I don’t think she is blaming him. However as one person put it, the life they have had the past 10 years was based upon a lie… no matter how good, how wonderful it was still based upon a perpetual lie and now she needs him to believe her and trust her… I’m sure tha’ts not easy for him.

Also it was about 10 years ago, about 7 months before they got pregnant the first time. She says she hasn’t even thought about anyone else because of the disgust, shame and guilt when it happened. They had been married for about 10 years when it happened.

Joe
 
Joe,

Please tell your friend that his feelings are perfectly normal. We innocent spouses rack our minds trying to figure out the truth and to be told lies is the same as telling us we are crazy. It didn’t matter if he found out that day, now, 20 years from now, or after she dies, he will still have to process the same emotions.

It doesn’t change what he had been dealing with or what he still needs to deal with that she has been faithful since that one incident. With her lie(s), she has been remaining faithful to the affair partner and keeping her husband out.

I do hope he can learn to forgive her (which is a process and will not be instantaneous). Their lives will not be the same, but they can learn from this and grow. Their children will also be better for them having shared the truth and grown together.

Shirley Glass is an acknowledged expert on affair recover. Also, www.affairrecovery.com is a great resource for both of them. They are Christian, so they acknowledge a divorce as ending the marriage, but they are ALL about saving marriages after infidelity.

May God bless the two of them, their children, and you - their caring friend.
 
In my opinion the measure of a strong marriage is not in avoiding conflict or never fighting or having rough patches… it’s over coming them.

The fact that they both want to work it out, that they’re looking into help, and that they’ve stayed together for 10 years despite some of these problems… that tends to tell me that, in general, they have a strong marriage. Just my opinion though…

And yes, I think you definitely gave them some good advice. They need to talk to someone, and a priest, especially if they are Catholic, is a good option.
 
aicirt said:
He’s a victim because he chooses not to forgive and move on. There are people who have suffered a lot more than he and have held it together.
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I know some of these people. I have seen it. I have seen what agony adultery causes, and nothing that in ANY WAY lessens the magnitude of the betrayal is in the least bit helpful.
aicirt said:
Here’s three scenarios that could have happened:
  1. She returned and they had five kids.
  2. She didn’t return and he never had her and never had his kids or present life.
  3. She returned and was pregnant by the other man.
He has not complained about anything she’s done sinful in the last years so how is she untrustworthy? What’s he going to do now? Declare her affair to her kids?
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Actually, he IS complaining, quite justly, about her lying behavior over these 10 years (not 20, as you keep writing). The lying was an ongoing wrong. Given her lies, how is he to be SURE that their oldest child is even his? So perhaps #3 was the actual outcome?

Regardless, their life together over the past 10 years was built on a lie. Catholic teaching is that the ends do not justify the means. The “end” the wife desired, getting her husband to take her back, does not justify the means, lying to him and depriving him of the right the Church gives him to determine whether or not to continue conjugal life with an adulterous spouse.

OP, I am glad to hear that the husband is not blaming himself. Please listen to hurtandhealing. She knows what she is talking about.
 
From what I’m told the husband believes this happened only once, he says he felt it and that is how he knew to go find her. Their first child wasn’t conceived until 7 or 8 months later and both of them had broken off all ties with this other couple by this point. From the pictures I’ve seen his son looks just like him so I wouldn’t doubt his children are his.

He also said he didn’t feel like she had cheated any other times and she swears that is the case and didn’t tell him because she was too ashamed and sickened by what she did and has tried to make up for it the past 10 years. She broke her vows, he said they have talked a great deal and he has seen her cry like never before. To the point now that he said today he is trying to let her heal some too so they can moved forward. He also added that he feels like by not telling him she felt like in some ways she was protecting him from the pain. I know and agree with the statements about their marriage being based upon a lie.

However I also pointed out to him that since then, even with the lie, they have been extremely blessed from what he has told me. God’s infinite mercy is for all who repent, he believes she did repent of what happened. While he is not blaming himself, especially for the choice she has to own that and is, he admitted today that before the event for months he had been really ignoring her, often chatting late at night with others on chat rooms while she sat alone in the other room. I think the thing was that he feels that in some ways he wasn’t living up to his vows either when she needed him. However that is still much different that adultery, IMHO and in his. It sounds more and more like there were a number of stressors and factors that lead to this… yet she should have told him regardless, even if she was scared he would leave because honestly I don’t think he would have.

She confessed it years ago apparently but obviously needs to go to confession for the lies since.
 
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