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Luvz2travel
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It may be illegal to ask but as a parent I would be very cautious about whoever I hired to watch my kids. Especially in the environment in which we live today.
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BlueEyedLady
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Yes! Absolutely, I would too. But whether or not a person has a diagnosed mental disorder is not a good litmus test, at all. Especially with all of the wonderful treatments. Not to mention all of the “healthy” creeps, jerks, and just plain unreliable people out there. (Or people who don’t know that somethings wrong so they haven’t been diagnosed, or even treated). It would take lots of references and a lot of time with me supervising before I trusted someone like that. And no, I’m not above using “nanny cams”.
Actually the best child care provider I know is a 29 year old man with severe ADHD. He is very responsible and attentive to children. But because of his ADHD he relates well to children, never gets bored with them, and never misses a beat. They cannot pull one over on him.
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maryjk
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You seem to be talking about " a mental disorder." While others are talking about a specific disorder, bi-polar.
ADHD is a very different disorder.
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BlueEyedLady
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If someone is functioning, responsible, has great references and a proven track record having a controlled bipolar disorder should not matter. And yes, it can be controlled successfully and many sufferers make excellent parents, employees, and caretakers.
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Moore11
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Perhaps it should be a requirement. Lots if former alchololics are great people now so AA meetings should be job fairs.
Every time someone uses a logical argument like mentally ill people do not make the best childcare providers. Someone else has to chime in with the exception to the rule. I call it the NPR effect. If you ever listen to NPR they always find the smallest little niche or exception. “Today we are profiling gay environmental activists who vote republican.”
I’m just waiting for " hey, a prison record should not be an employment hinderence. the best daycare worker I ever met was a former member of the Crypts and did time for murder. They learn great skills in prison."
This discrimination thing is getting out of hand. Why even have an interview at all. lets all just pull names out of a hat. Of course one of the best midwife’s I know is a 45 year old male migrant worker with a really looooong name.
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BlueEyedLady
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You can’t discriminate against former alcoholics either. And actually successful recovering alcoholics are very common. Our last president was even one.Perhaps it should be a requirement. Lots if former alchololics are great people now so AA meetings should be job fairs.
Every time someone uses a logical argument like mentally ill people do not make the best childcare providers. Someone else has to chime in with the exception to the rule. I call it the NPR effect. If you ever listen to NPR they always find the smallest little niche or exception. “Today we are profiling gay environmental activists who vote republican.”
I’m just waiting for " hey, a prison record should not be an employment hinderence. the best daycare worker I ever met was a former member of the Crypts and did time for murder. They learn great skills in prison."
This discrimination thing is getting out of hand. Why even have an interview at all. lets all just pull names out of a hat. Of course one of the best midwife’s I know is a 45 year old male migrant worker with a really looooong name.
And there is a huge difference between someone who has a medical condition and works hard to overcome it and receives ongoing treatment and someone who makes a choice to go out, commit crime, and hurt people. Bipolars do not equal gang members.
Judging from the sheer percentages of adults who are diagnosed with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, ADD its pretty clear that you encounter mentally ill people every day. You just don’t know it. If it isn’t something that you can tell about someone, you shouldn’t discriminate against them if you find out from something other than than their behavior or job performance.
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Moore11
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Oh, I know it. Usually. mental illness is so shiek right now.
At a University by my house a professor teaching a class in mental wellness went nuts and pulled a gun threatening people. She is a medical doctor and was on meds for “bi polar” (the 2000s version of ACHD)
perhaps she should take care of some infants?
I’d be careful with the idea of “you encounter them everyday” as the ones you encounter just might be the weirdos you talk about around the dinner table. The lady at walmart slapping her kids, the guy red faced driving a car and flipping people off, the woman at the store who can’t figure out her receipt and is arguing over the price of a grape.
Seems like these days everyone has an excuse er mental illness. I hear about it all the time. “I never graduated high school because I am ACHD” it had nothing to do with the drugs you were selling or decisions you were making.
If I were a person with a true mental illness (and they do exist) I would be plenty ticked off at those who are on their meds for "diagnosed’ mental illnesses that are really just bad character flaws.
Give em some Ritalin instead of some discipline!
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ack
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Huh?
Your argument seems to be that mental illnesses (Axis I disorders specifically) are over-diagnosed, and that psychiatric medicines are being given to those with no underlying organic illness. So wouldn’t that be an argument for hiring the bipolar nanny, as she probably doesn’t have the organic illness for which she’s being erroneously treated?
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BlueEyedLady
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I’m sorry, but I can’t continue this debate with you. As someone who has spent a lot of time and effort overcoming a mental illness, or “character flaw” I find your characterization of the mentally ill offensive and disturbing.
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ack
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You are correct in noticing this. In South Korea, it is common for handicapped people – especially those with mental disorders or retardation – to be subjected to high levels of discrimination. The ostracism that disabled people receive in Korea – even in daily situations not related to employment, or where the disability is irrelevant – is well beyond anything that disabled people experience in the US or other Western countries.
IMHO, this makes it a lot harder to assess the OP’s situation. It’s possible that the OP’s problems are bad enough to make a nanny job problematic, and potential employers are sensing this. On the other hand, it’s also possible that the OP’s life is well-ordered, but the Korean employers are being discriminatory. I don’t think there’s any way to further assess this issue over the internet, unfortunately.
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Allegra
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There are a good many people who are functioning in society with bipolar disorder. I’m actually quite appalled at some of the posts I’m reading in this thread because I never realized that in this day and age, people would still hold such views. Maybe it’s because they don’t realize all the functioning individuals with bipolar that they encounter everyday and the only people they know have it are engaged in some sort of undisirable behavior. If my sister was watching your children (and she has years of childcare experience) you would be an absolute fool to fire her over a predjudice against bipolar disorder. She is incredible with kids. People say she is like the toddler whisperer. People have to pry their screaming child off their leg in order to get to work or where ever they are going, and she has that kid smiling and playing before five minutes have gone by. Not only would I trust her to look after my child, I would trust her to raise my child should something happen to me and my husband. I simply can’t belive that any decent human being could see how wonderful and responsible she is with kids and want to fire her over a disorder that is under control, not effecting her job, and that she can’t help having been born with.
My younger brother also has severe depression and is paralyzed, but he has an inate ability to teach children with physical disabilities to believe that they can accomplish their goals. He is an incredible mentor for young kids. If he was working with your kids, you would never know that he suffers from mental illness unless he told you himself.
Then there’s the first grade teacher at the school where I work. The principal gets letters from the parents of kindergarteners before we leave for Christmas break, begging for their child to be put in her class the following year. She is the best 1st grade teacher we have in the district. Her kids are kind and respectful to others, follow rules and procedures, and always demonstrate amazing growth academically. She also has medically controlled bipolar, though I don’t think anyone would know it.
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Chiltepin
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I feel for the OP, I really do.
Bottom line, a nanny is not a traditional job in the sense of all these legal protections(and as so many have brought up we have no clue about South Korea). If I were interviewing nannies to stay in my home, alone with my children without me there, I would be scrutinizing every detail about them. Anyone who would not be given serious pause by this as a parent, I really don’t understand. It is hard to trust anyone with your children.
We really might interact with tons of bipolar people without knowing it, but then there are those that we know it.
My high school debate coach was bipolar. It took him 14 years to get a bachelor’s degree(as a full time student, not one course at a time). He made a living off a credit card fraud during this time. He dated a student his first year teaching. He embezzled money from our fundraisers. He took us to a sports bar on an out of town trip where he drank while we played trivia games… Also he openly admitted his disorder in addition to all of these things stated above.
A coworker of mine is a bipolar kindergarten teacher. Her attitude towards the children is at times the best and at times erratic. She has been hopsitalized for depression and attempts on her life. She was an alcoholic and showed up for work drunk many times. Why she is still allowed to work at our school is beyond me, but she is very vocal about her bipolar disorder and her alcoholism recovery. She posts about it on facebook constantly where she is also foolish enough to be facebook friends with many parents of her students.
These two people I have described are a mess and need prayers, but probably do not represent the majority of bipolar people. One thing they have in common is bad behavior and openly admitting to the disorder in order to feel like brave advocates during their messes.
I would suggest not disclosing this disorder in interviews.The OP may legitimately have it all under control, but is trying to work in a small community or area where everyone knows them. Is that the case? It would be tricky especially if people know you or know of a time when you were still getting all the medicines figured out.
No matter how politcally correct some of you want to be, your high horse and the law has its flaws. I could not be a highway patrolman if I were blind. Is that discrimination? Yes. Scores of things disqualify people from military service or atleast some positions within the military. Discrimination is unfortunate and it is good that some protections exist, but people cannot act like they are owed jobs because of a mental disorder and I have a real problem with suing for not getting a job. It reeks of entitlement issues in an already terribly entitled culture.
Bottom line, a nanny is not a traditional job in the sense of all these legal protections(and as so many have brought up we have no clue about South Korea). If I were interviewing nannies to stay in my home, alone with my children without me there, I would be scrutinizing every detail about them. Anyone who would not be given serious pause by this as a parent, I really don’t understand. It is hard to trust anyone with your children.
We really might interact with tons of bipolar people without knowing it, but then there are those that we know it.
My high school debate coach was bipolar. It took him 14 years to get a bachelor’s degree(as a full time student, not one course at a time). He made a living off a credit card fraud during this time. He dated a student his first year teaching. He embezzled money from our fundraisers. He took us to a sports bar on an out of town trip where he drank while we played trivia games… Also he openly admitted his disorder in addition to all of these things stated above.
A coworker of mine is a bipolar kindergarten teacher. Her attitude towards the children is at times the best and at times erratic. She has been hopsitalized for depression and attempts on her life. She was an alcoholic and showed up for work drunk many times. Why she is still allowed to work at our school is beyond me, but she is very vocal about her bipolar disorder and her alcoholism recovery. She posts about it on facebook constantly where she is also foolish enough to be facebook friends with many parents of her students.
These two people I have described are a mess and need prayers, but probably do not represent the majority of bipolar people. One thing they have in common is bad behavior and openly admitting to the disorder in order to feel like brave advocates during their messes.
I would suggest not disclosing this disorder in interviews.The OP may legitimately have it all under control, but is trying to work in a small community or area where everyone knows them. Is that the case? It would be tricky especially if people know you or know of a time when you were still getting all the medicines figured out.
No matter how politcally correct some of you want to be, your high horse and the law has its flaws. I could not be a highway patrolman if I were blind. Is that discrimination? Yes. Scores of things disqualify people from military service or atleast some positions within the military. Discrimination is unfortunate and it is good that some protections exist, but people cannot act like they are owed jobs because of a mental disorder and I have a real problem with suing for not getting a job. It reeks of entitlement issues in an already terribly entitled culture.
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maryjk
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I know a young man that has been diagnosed as bi-polar. He has been on 4 or 5 different medications. Each time the mother says, “the disorder is under control now.” And that is true, until it isn’t. Either the drug isn’t working or the young man stops taking it because he doesn’t like the way it makes him feel. Then he gets depressed. And goes about thinking of ways to kill himself. (Sometimes thinking about ways that take lots of people with him.) This is not someone I would leave alone with children. Heck, he isn’t someone the mother leaves alone, period.
I am sure we all know someone with a mental disorder. And those of you that know someone that is wonderful just don’t understand how anyone could possibly have anything against someone with a mental disorder. But those of us that have witnessed the other side, just shake our heads in wonderment of your naivete.
I am sure we all know someone with a mental disorder. And those of you that know someone that is wonderful just don’t understand how anyone could possibly have anything against someone with a mental disorder. But those of us that have witnessed the other side, just shake our heads in wonderment of your naivete.
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Serap
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I work with a woman who I believe is paranoid schizophrenic. She takes 6 months of sick leave, returns happy, stops taking her meds and becomes crazy again. 6 months later, she is again on 6 months sick leave and the cycle continues.
I work for Public Health and we are unionized, so it’s very hard to fire her.
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Allegra
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The difference with your disabled soldier, blind traffic cop, and disfunctional kindergarten teacher as they would all be easily dismissed on their own merit. If a person cannot or will not do their job properly, they should be fired, regardless of the reason. No one has said that someone should be hired even if they stink at a job, just because they have a disability. What I said is that it is wrong to fire someone who is doing their job well, without issue, because you become aware that they have a disability that is not affecting their work. All of the examples of people who do not have their bipolar under control should be dismissed. They should be dismissed because they are not doing their job correctly or as good as someone else could do it. Not because they have a mental disorder.
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Allegra
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Are you in charge of HR? I’m not trying to be acusatory, I’m just curious. Your coworker may have been hired as part of a program to help severely disabled individuals support themself and part of her pay might be subsidized. I work in a job that has a union as well and we have a policy that dictates how many months a person can be out for medical reasons and still keep their job.
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Chiltepin
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I agree with you there. If they already have the job and are doing great, there are no grounds for firing them. From what I can tell, my issue has not been with your arguments so much as those who would sue for not getting a job in the first place.
I think that also a lot of the contention in this thread deals with the job being a nanny position as well, rather than something more formal with an HR department etc. Maybe a company of nannies would be the way to go, getting hired on there and then recommended to families rather than the parents being the actual employer.
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Serap
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No, I am not “in charge of HR”. This woman has not produced one document since she was hired 10 years ago. No manager wants to work with her b/c she’s rude and refuses to attend meetings, etc.
She was not hired knowing she had a mental health issue. It was eventually found out by a manager when my colleague thought her work phone was “tapped” and someone was trying to follow her. Every time her cell phone rang, she thought it was the person following her.
That was her first sick leave after she tried to hurt herself in a car accident and got her driver’s license taken away for one year. That sick leave lasted 9 months. Now she keeps coming back and the cycle continues.
She’s lucky she’s in a union environment. She does no work. My manager has to re-do all of her work and my manager works over-time doing it.
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Allegra
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I don’t see any reason why this person shouldn’t be terminated, unless her supervisor just doesn’t see the situation the same way you do, or she’s been hired as part of a program designed to help individuals with that sort of problem.
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Serap
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Management was trying to terminiate her, but my colleague went on sick leave b4 the paperwork went through. When she comes back, according to union rules, my manager will have to start from square one.
That’s what she does. She goes on sick leave b4 she can get fired.
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