Advice needed- Long time Christian wanting to become Catholic but not baptized

[jamzimm]

Praise be to God- the RE Director JUST called me as I was crying while I was typing my last post because I get really emotional when I write out or speak about my emotions.
She asked to move our appointment from the 14th to TOMORROW which is wonderful because I have been yearning to meet with her for so long! She said that they start the processes for different people at different times on a case by case basis, so she and the Pastor will determine this!!

I will let you know how the meeting goes!!

Jesus takes care of me always.

 

[otjm]

Praise be to God- the RE Director JUST called me as I was crying while I was typing my last post because I get really emotional when I write out or speak about my emotions.
She asked to move our appointment from the 14th to TOMORROW which is wonderful because I have been yearning to meet with her for so long! She said that they start the processes for different people at different times on a case by case basis, so she and the Pastor will determine this!!

I will let you know how the meeting goes!!

Jesus takes care of me always.

Excellent!

 

[tafan]

To the OP. I will have a different take on this, so read my post. You are anxious for your baptism, that is understandable. Talk to the DRE and the pastor, they might determine you are ready to be received into sooner, that would be great. They likely will not, and that is ok also. Do NOT get baptized in the protestant denomination.

If you must go through RCIA and wait until Easter Vigil to be baptized, that works out just fine as a catechumen, not necessarily so as a candidate (ie a already baptized Christian). Why do you ask? The normal entry into the Church for catechumens is via RCIA. That is the normal path for entry into the church, which is why only few times do priests decide to let people enter sooner. You are worried about what if you die suddenly before Easter, correct? For a catechumen this works out fine, you have made a firm decision, if you suddenly die, you will be granted a Baptism of Desire and welcomed into heaven.

For candidates, the case is not so clear. RCIA was designed for catechumens, not candidates. You do not know what might happen between now and EEaster, you might commit a mortal sin. And unfortunately, despite any candidate’s preparation and determination to enter the Church, most parishes have an policy of not letting them go to confession until am arbitrary couple off weeks before Easter. It makes no sense, but that is what happens. In that case, you would have to trust in the mercy of God and trust in your own perfect act of contrition.

I would MUCH rather be a catechumen in RCIA than a candidate!!!

ETA. Do not mention my reasoning in your meeting with the Dre or priest, they will look at you as if you are crazy and it will hurt your cause.

 

[Horton]

Thank you guys.

This is very difficult for me. Another thing that feel’s like a stab to the chest each time:

Because I am doing so much research that includes listening to Catholic Answers Live all day every day and watching videos and reading articles and books and anything credible that I can get my hands on in addition to speaking with Catholics fervent in their faith, I keep hearing things like **“if you aren’t baptized, you aren’t a child of God,” or “Once you have been baptized you have been saved” or “You are a Christian if you have been baptized” **and it’s coming at me from everywhere, all the time. It hurts so much, because I have felt that I have been a child of God for as long as I have loved and served Jesus and lived for Him to the best of my ability, knowing all that I believed to be true. That has been my identity for 13 years. I know God is not a God of fear and I am thinking that this is the enemy trying to trick me into feeling this way, because God is not bound by rules and He knows that everyone goes through special situations. It’s just really really hard. And I don’t want to wait any longer because I KNOW I am a child of God and I DESPISE my sin so much.

It’s difficult to reconcile the bolded comments as comments from Catholic sources. Especially the baptism equals salvation. While Catholics believe baptism is a step toward salvation, baptism in and of itself, with no further action on the individual’s part isn’t a guarantee one gets to heaven. Catholics do not believe in once saved, always saved (OSAS). We believe we are saved, being saved, & hope to be saved. Meaning salvation is a continuing process throughout our lives, not a one time deal.

I’m sorry you were once led to believe baptism wasn’t necessary for salvation. I’m also happy you have found the truth. Please be at peace with not baptized yet. God has special plans for all of us with perfect timing. Trust God.

 

[Wesrock]

Praise be to God- the RE Director JUST called me as I was crying while I was typing my last post because I get really emotional when I write out or speak about my emotions.
She asked to move our appointment from the 14th to TOMORROW which is wonderful because I have been yearning to meet with her for so long! She said that they start the processes for different people at different times on a case by case basis, so she and the Pastor will determine this!!

I will let you know how the meeting goes!!

Jesus takes care of me always.

Huzzah!

 

[Casilda]

However, I don’t know any pastor of any other church who would want to baptize you knowing that you intend to become Catholic.

I have not found that to be true. Working with a group that works with homeless people getting back on their feet, I witnessed one man’s desire to be baptized. It was around 9pm and within minutes, a Protestant pastor in the group led everyone down to the local lake and baptized the man. It is that important.

No the man didn’t desire to be Catholic, he did desire to be baptized and that is what mattered.

 

[otjm]

I have not found that to be true. Working with a group that works with homeless people getting back on their feet, I witnessed one man’s desire to be baptized. It was around 9pm and within minutes, a Protestant pastor in the group led everyone down to the local lake and baptized the man. It is that important.

No the man didn’t desire to be Catholic, he did desire to be baptized and that is what mattered.

Read what I wrote. Not what you want to turn it into.

 

[jamzimm]

To the OP. I will have a different take on this, so read my post. You are anxious for your baptism, that is understandable. Talk to the DRE and the pastor, they might determine you are ready to be received into sooner, that would be great. They likely will not, and that is ok also. Do NOT get baptized in the protestant denomination.

If you must go through RCIA and wait until Easter Vigil to be baptized, that works out just fine as a catechumen, not necessarily so as a candidate (ie a already baptized Christian). Why do you ask? The normal entry into the Church for catechumens is via RCIA. That is the normal path for entry into the church, which is why only few times do priests decide to let people enter sooner. You are worried about what if you die suddenly before Easter, correct? For a catechumen this works out fine, you have made a firm decision, if you suddenly die, you will be granted a Baptism of Desire and welcomed into heaven.

For candidates, the case is not so clear. RCIA was designed for catechumens, not candidates. You do not know what might happen between now and EEaster, you might commit a mortal sin. And unfortunately, despite any candidate’s preparation and determination to enter the Church, most parishes have an policy of not letting them go to confession until am arbitrary couple off weeks before Easter. It makes no sense, but that is what happens. In that case, you would have to trust in the mercy of God and trust in your own perfect act of contrition.

I would MUCH rather be a catechumen in RCIA than a candidate!!!

ETA. Do not mention my reasoning in your meeting with the Dre or priest, they will look at you as if you are crazy and it will hurt your cause.

But if I were to be baptized soon, then I would be clean of all past sin (26 years worth unless I have been forgiven for any already through repentance and prayer I’ve done outside the sacrament of reconciliation), and will continue to detach myself from sin afterwards to the best of my ability. I would still be in a good state of grace as a candidate. Right?

 

[jamzimm]

But aren’t doing “nothing”, you are working toward being Catholic. There are many Protestant churches out there who will baptize at any time. However, not all may be valid in the eyes of the Church. Do you know for certain the church you wish to be baptized in has a valid baptism. Have you asked a priest or deacon? The one & one catechesis with a priest almost never happens anymore, priests are simply too overworked to meet with one person for the required time to teach enough to go through the rites. That is why most parishes have RCIA. (Before I get jumped on here with that statement, I know in small rural parishes RCIA often looks like one & one with a priest.)

**You made a comment about the number of catechumens who are brought into the Church every Easter. Does that bother you? The number of people going through the same rites of initiation as you? You said something about your family may be able to attend the protestant baptism but may not attend the Catholic one? **

What are you going to do when the priest tells you to go through RCIA and be baptized at the Easter Vigil?

As far as the baptism of desire, I feel you are making it a little more complicated than it is. It is simply a mechanism for those who wish to be baptized but are taken before that can happen, God will extend all the mercy and forgiveness as he does to those that are validly baptized. I am making a huge assumption here (and am not asking for details) but I suspect your pain may be coming from sin and you feel baptism will relieve your guilt. **Baptism certainly remits any sin one may have on their soul prior to their baptism but it is not a magic potion to relieve guilt. **I know my mortal sins have been absolved through the sacrament of reconciliation but at times I still feel guilty for what I have done. But that is an interior struggle for me, something I dealt with for many years. I know my sins are forgiven but it doesn’t mean that the sins never happened.

These are all things learned in RCIA, which is a time to prepare you for baptism, first communion, and confirmation. As I said earlier, I was baptized as an infant, three weeks old, and came into the Church in about 50 years later. There were many times leading up to that first confession when I wished I had not been baptized and could avoid 40 years or so of sins. But I never felt as though I would not be able to get the graces that come through being obedient to God’s will prior to making that confession. I believe God’s calling you to His Church means He wants you to participate in ALL the sacraments of initiation. Have trust in God here.

Hi Horton,

Yes, the baptism would be valid. You may already know this, but most (a very very high percentage) protestant churches have trinitarian baptisms.

If I were to be granted the opportunity to study privately, I expect the catechesis would come from the RE Director, but I will find out for sure during my meeting this evening (7 pm Eastern time).

I noted that there are a large number of candidates and catechumens received into the church to illustrate the busyness of the parish. Why would that bother me? I think it’s a wonderful, beautiful thing. I’m not sure what you mean there.

As I stated in my initial post, my family has not had any part of my protestant life for 13 years, and the reason I waited on baptism was so they’d be there. I didn’t say they would be able to attend a protestant baptism and not a catholic one. They can attend any baptism they wish. I wanted them to come to mine. This is less relevant to my situation. Just an explanation as to why I waited.

I know baptism doesn’t relieve guilt. I know baptism wipes you clean of sin. Guilt is not of God, and of any sin you are wiped clean of, you should no longer feel guilty. That provokes even more sin upon oneself, and takes away from worship and devotion to Jesus. All one can do is work to do better and live according to Jesus.

I was not making baptism of desire more complicated than it is. There is not much written on it. There is no way to know the full extent of the truth until you’ve died without baptism and received mercy through faith and the desire to serve the Lord. There is no indication that it is equal to a physical baptism. That’s all I stated.

 

[jamzimm]

It’s difficult to reconcile the bolded comments as comments from Catholic sources. Especially the baptism equals salvation. While Catholics believe baptism is a step toward salvation, baptism in and of itself, with no further action on the individual’s part isn’t a guarantee one gets to heaven. Catholics do not believe in once saved, always saved (OSAS). We believe we are saved, being saved, & hope to be saved. Meaning salvation is a continuing process throughout our lives, not a one time deal.

I’m sorry you were once led to believe baptism wasn’t necessary for salvation. I’m also happy you have found the truth. Please be at peace with not baptized yet. God has special plans for all of us with perfect timing. Trust God.

Those statements absolutely came from credible Catholic sources. Not in the context of what we are discussing, but in other contexts. Still, hearing these statements are extremely painful. I understand the Catholic process of being saved and how that continues until death. I don’t think anything I’ve said implies otherwise. But baptism, according to Catholic teaching, is the gateway to salvation.

I am an example of a child of God who has not yet been baptized. I want this baptism because of the pain and weight I’m feeling and I should have been baptized LONG ago and I don’t think I should be denied baptism as soon as possible if I desire it, especially being in my unique situation. So I am pursuing it the right way by bring this issue to my meeting tonight.

 

[Horton]

Hi Horton,

Yes, the baptism would be valid. You may already know this, but most (a very very high percentage) protestant churches have trinitarian baptisms

.
I am very aware of this. I’ve been involved with RCIA for years. I am also trained as an advocate for marriage cases. I was also raised as a protestant.

If I were to be granted the opportunity to study privately, I expect the catechesis would come from the RE Director, but I will find out for sure during my meeting this evening (7 pm Eastern time).

The DRE generally is a paid position who oversees RE in the parish. I imagine larger parishes may have more than one. But they are also very busy and may not have time to do one on one.

I noted that there are a large number of candidates and catechumens received into the church to illustrate the busyness of the parish. Why would that bother me? I think it’s a wonderful, beautiful thing. I’m not sure what you mean there.

As I stated in my initial post, my family has not had any part of my protestant life for 13 years, and the reason I waited on baptism was so they’d be there. I didn’t say they would be able to attend a protestant baptism and not a catholic one. They can attend any baptism they wish. I wanted them to come to mine. This is less relevant to my situation. Just an explanation as to why I waited.

Those were just questions, not accusations.

I know baptism doesn’t relieve guilt. I know baptism wipes you clean of sin. Guilt is not of God, and of any sin you are wiped clean of, you should no longer feel guilty. That provokes even more sin upon oneself, and takes away from worship and devotion to Jesus. All one can do is work to do better and live according to Jesus

.
I’m not sure what you mean here? It appears you may not have a full understanding of what sin is according to the Catholic Church. You are correct in saying guilt is not of God, it is a human emotion and we are sinful humans. Regardless of when one is baptized, sin will happen. We are all sinners and we must work hard everyday to not sin. Most of us fail at that everyday. God understands this perfectly, we know that because He made it possible to be forgiven of both venial and mortal sins.

I was not making baptism of desire more complicated than it is. There is not much written on it. There is no way to know the full extent of the truth until you’ve died without baptism and received mercy through faith and the desire to serve the Lord. There is no indication that it is equal to a physical baptism. That’s all I stated.

There is also no indication it is not equal. This is where trust in the Lord comes in. The Church has defined the concept of baptism of desire and nothing more needs to be said.

The bible tells us to not trust in our own interpretation of things but to trust in God. Trust God in all things, pray to Him in all things, then submit to His will in all things. God gave the world the perfect Church and while men have tried to make the Church into something its not, God has prevailed for 2000 years with His Church.

Why would you want to be baptized by a church that is against the Catholic Church. Many Protestant churches believe the Catholic Church to be in error. While many of those churches are not vocal or uncharitable against the Catholic Church, they still believe us to wrong.

 

[Casilda]

.

Why would you want to be baptized by a church that is against the Catholic Church. Many Protestant churches believe the Catholic Church to be in error. While many of those churches are not vocal or uncharitable against the Catholic Church, they still believe us to wrong.

Many converts are already baptized Christians and their baptisms are accepted. There are some unnessasary steps that have been added in most parishes that discourage people/parents and this causes delaying or postponing baptisms that I believe is harmful to souls. I am a victim of that. I was finally baptized just weeks before my first birthday. An aunt (my godmother) found a priest who would baptize me. Anyone can perform a baptism, it does not have to be a priest, they do not even have to be baptized themselves.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs…m/p2s2c1a1.htm

WHO CAN BAPTIZE?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

 

[Horton]

Many converts are already baptized Christians and their baptisms are accepted. There are some unnessasary steps that have been added in most parishes that discourage people/parents and this causes delaying or postponing baptisms that I believe is harmful to souls. I am a victim of that. I was finally baptized just weeks before my first birthday. An aunt (my godmother) found a priest who would baptize me. Anyone can perform a baptism, it does not have to be a priest, they do not even have to be baptized themselves.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs…m/p2s2c1a1.htm

WHO CAN BAPTIZE?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

You are assuming I am ignorant of what baptism is and who can do it, I assure you I am not. I have been involved with RCIA for many years and understand baptism very well.

Many of us who came into the Church with valid baptisms really didn’t have a choice. I was three weeks old when baptized, didn’t have the capability of understanding.

Many former Protestants with valid baptisms coming into the Church were either without the ability to choose (infants, very young children & so on) or did not know the truth of the Catholic Church. This is a completely different situation than what the OP is talking about doing.

I believe the Church is right in having expectations of parents who want to have their child baptized. Baptism is a significant sacrament and parents who want this for their child needs to understand what it means.

 

[Casilda]

By the time a Catholic is a parent, if they do not understand the sacrament of baptism means the church is doing a very poor job catechizing. Mandating baptism classes on every parent is redundant. A Catholic parent has been confirmed and married in the church. They know the importance of the sacrament, the classes are a burden to working parents. I know several who didn’t get their children baptized through the church because of church scheduling hassles. Baptisms should be a joyful occasion, not made a hassle.

Joy, 500 babies baptized in a mass baptism

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb6SHhHbKyA

 

[jamzimm]

You are assuming I am ignorant of what baptism is and who can do it, I assure you I am not. I have been involved with RCIA for many years and understand baptism very well.

Many of us who came into the Church with valid baptisms really didn’t have a choice. I was three weeks old when baptized, didn’t have the capability of understanding.

Many former Protestants with valid baptisms coming into the Church were either without the ability to choose (infants, very young children & so on) or did not know the truth of the Catholic Church. This is a completely different situation than what the OP is talking about doing.

I believe the Church is right in having expectations of parents who want to have their child baptized. Baptism is a significant sacrament and parents who want this for their child needs to understand what it means.

I’m so sorry, my ability to converse with you on this matter has run its course. You seem to presume things about me that I don’t find worth in arguing because, well, it’s just not worth it. You already seem to have decided that you know more on this very personal matter of mine, and you presume to know the extent of others’ knowledge of the topic, such as my own.

I apologize if I made you feel that you don’t understand baptism. I thought I would have alleviated that matter by including the words “You probably already know this but…”
I genuinely meant my statement to be gentle and only included it to assure you that the baptism is valid, because you seemed to think that I didn’t know if the baptisms given by the church I’ve attended for years is valid or not.

Thank you for trying to help in your own way. I only want gentle and loving advice from people, so I won’t be reading any further response from you. They actually provoke further pain instead of comfort.

 

[jamzimm]

UPDATE:

I met with the RE Director of my parish last night! I told her all about my spiritual journey since the start of my relationship with Jesus, of my studying of the Catholic faith, and everything that is on my heart concerning baptism.

She saw the pain I am experiencing, the extent of my hatred of my sin, and my deep desire to be baptized and told me that I do have a very special case. She said that the church rarely gives the sacraments to adults apart from the Easter Vigil, but she will speak to the pastor about me and my situation and discuss the possibility of receiving the sacraments sooner. I asked her about the need to be fully catechized and to go through RCIA, and she told me that she has no doubt in her mind that I am catechized just from our conversation, and that she is the one who determines these things.

I will be meeting with her (she? grammar is weird sometimes) and the pastor soon to talk about all of this when she calls me within a week or two.

I am trusting in the Lord! I know that no matter what happens, I will be ok. I feel so much better just being able to tell her all of these things on my heart. I will keep you updated, if you are interested!

Know that I appreciate so much your advice and welcomes. There will likely be many more questions I will ask on these forums. I’ll keep this thread updated with the goings-on of this particular journey!

 

[Horton]

I’m so sorry, my ability to converse with you on this matter has run its course. You seem to presume things about me that I don’t find worth in arguing because, well, it’s just not worth it. You already seem to have decided that you know more on this very personal matter of mine, and you presume to know the extent of others’ knowledge of the topic, such as my own.

I apologize if I made you feel that you don’t understand baptism. I thought I would have alleviated that matter by including the words “You probably already know this but…”
I genuinely meant my statement to be gentle and only included it to assure you that the baptism is valid, because you seemed to think that I didn’t know if the baptisms given by the church I’ve attended for years is valid or not.

Thank you for trying to help in your own way. I only want gentle and loving advice from people, so I won’t be reading any further response from you. They actually provoke further pain instead of comfort.

This post wasn’t directed at you, it was directed to the poster I quoted. I’m sorry you misunderstood.

 

[otjm]

UPDATE:

I met with the RE Director of my parish last night! I told her all about my spiritual journey since the start of my relationship with Jesus, of my studying of the Catholic faith, and everything that is on my heart concerning baptism.

She saw the pain I am experiencing, the extent of my hatred of my sin, and my deep desire to be baptized and told me that I do have a very special case. She said that the church rarely gives the sacraments to adults apart from the Easter Vigil, but she will speak to the pastor about me and my situation and discuss the possibility of receiving the sacraments sooner. I asked her about the need to be fully catechized and to go through RCIA, and she told me that she has no doubt in her mind that I am catechized just from our conversation, and that she is the one who determines these things.

I will be meeting with her (she? grammar is weird sometimes) and the pastor soon to talk about all of this when she calls me within a week or two.

I am trusting in the Lord! I know that no matter what happens, I will be ok. I feel so much better just being able to tell her all of these things on my heart. I will keep you updated, if you are interested!

Know that I appreciate so much your advice and welcomes. There will likely be many more questions I will ask on these forums. I’ll keep this thread updated with the goings-on of this particular journey!

Excellent!

May God bless you abundantly on your journey. Welcome home.

 

[jamzimm]

Well, the RE Director at my parish spoke with the pastor. He wants me to wait until Easter. I’m very heartbroken. I don’t want to be outside the Church anymore. I feel so isolated and lonely and so much weight from sin, and it’s so hard to go to mass every day and not receive Christ in the Eucharist. April is so far away, and I’m going through other painful things that will remain completely unknown and up in the air until then. I’m just trying to trust and surrender to Jesus, but it’s not easy. I have to place my trust in Him again and again every minute because the pain keeps overwhelming me. I wish I knew how the saints were able to detach themselves from their pain and emotions and fully entrust their lives COMPLETELY to the Lord.

 

[otjm]

Well, the RE Director at my parish spoke with the pastor. He wants me to wait until Easter. I’m very heartbroken. I don’t want to be outside the Church anymore. I feel so isolated and lonely and so much weight from sin, and it’s so hard to go to mass every day and not receive Christ in the Eucharist. April is so far away, and I’m going through other painful things that will remain completely unknown and up in the air until then. I’m just trying to trust and surrender to Jesus, but it’s not easy. I have to place my trust in Him again and again every minute because the pain keeps overwhelming me. I wish I knew how the saints were able to detach themselves from their pain and emotions and fully entrust their lives COMPLETELY to the Lord.

I understand. I, too, have been involved with RCIA for over 20 years, so I have had the opportunity not only to see, but also to accompany many people wanting to enter the Church.

Keep in mind several things - and hopefully, they might help somewhat.

We are bound by the sacraments - that is, these are what God gave us, and what we have to follow. So, baptism with water is how we enter the Church.

The church also teaches that God is not bound by the sacraments; that is, God can and will do what He pleases. Meaning, while you wait, you are intent on becoming Catholic, and God is well aware of this.

The corollary to that is that as you are joining RCIA, should you die before Easter Sunday, even though not baptized, you would be given a Catholic funeral Mass and Catholic burial (presuming those who remain behind would agree). The point being, you are considered part of the Church, though unbaptized with water.

And yes, it is a long wait. And I don’t say this to minimize it, or belittle your feelings; in the early Church, RCIA took as much as three years.

I am currently working with a young woman who has been through one year of RCIA, and to make a long story short, neither she nor her husband are baptized, and he had a former marriage - so we are involved with the tribunal, and that is going to delay for an unknown amount of time - months, at least - before she can be baptized. She too wants sorely to be baptized. So I do get it.

I will keep you in my prayers. Believe me, others do understand - and so does God. And yes, bending to God’s will is not easy. Hang in there!