Advice needed on Chinese Mass

[hopefull]

Help–I don’t know to whom else to turn…I am going to be in China in the fall, for nearly two weeks (going over two weekends) and I don’t know if I am allowed to go to a Mass in China. Weren’t the bishops excommunicated or something? Are Masses valid with true Eucharist? Even if they are, should I still go with the government interference? How do I even think about this or about not going to Mass…I can’t bear the thought of missing two Sundays…let alone weekdays too…any help, especially if you have been there for Mass, would be of great value.

 

[puzzleannie]

according to Jimmy Akin do not even attempt it
jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/05/masses_in_china.html
you could be putting yourself and your hosts in danger. get a dispensation and pray privately.

 

[aloejamb]

I too was in China for two weeks including two weekends. Our priest excused us(dispensation) before we went and we also received a blessing from him for safe travels. He didn’t recommend that we go.(that was 18 months ago before all of the latest excommunication news). We were on a plane for most of the day the one Sunday.

There was no Church to be found where we went. Only Buddhist temples. It isn’t like it is in AMerica. There isn’t a Church on every corner. If you do find a service, chances are, it’s non-denominational and in a part of China that Westerners frequently visit. It is my understanding that it is not encouraged for the Chinese to congregate in large numbers.
I hope that you have a guide while over there. That way you can ask about certain things. They can explain Chinese culture and why they believe or practice certain things. It is a different way of thinking than the Western culture but very interesting. A guide can also teach you what is considered insulting. Here, anything goes and the most you get is the finger. Over there, you can really get yourself into trouble so your guide can “prep” you before you enter into a certain scenario of what is proper etiquette. I know whistling is considered rude .
I brought daily readings and my bible and rosary. THese things helped alot. About the second week there, I was feeling very far from home and did not find any hint of Christian symbols anywhere…I really missed going to Mass. We ended up taking a tour of a small village and as we entered into an elderly woman’s home, there was a huge poster hung on her wall of a cross. She also sang a song that our guide translated that all Christians were her brothers and sisters and therefore welcome. So it was as if He was letting me know He was there.
The whole experience of China changed me. It made me appreciative of what I have and how much of it I have. It also made me grateful that I can go to Mass every day if I choose to and receive Him. It made me pray for those who cannot. I gave a presentation at my daughter’s school about China. I was able to talk to the students about how blessed we are to have Jesus so accessible to us. The experience while in China was like having a good homily.
I hope this helps you.

 

[hopefull]

Truly, this really does help. I almost can’t bear the thought of being more than two weeks without the Eucharist. You have given me another view to appreciate. I am close to wanting to cancel the trip and I need to pray about it a lot first. Your posting is very, very helpful. Thank you.

 

[InLight247]

Help–I don’t know to whom else to turn…I am going to be in China in the fall, for nearly two weeks (going over two weekends) and I don’t know if I am allowed to go to a Mass in China. Weren’t the bishops excommunicated or something? Are Masses valid with true Eucharist? Even if they are, should I still go with the government interference? How do I even think about this or about not going to Mass…I can’t bear the thought of missing two Sundays…let alone weekdays too…any help, especially if you have been there for Mass, would be of great value.

I have not been to Mass in China, but my best friend who is a Catholic has been living in China for several years. She used to live in CA. In her prayer she clearly received the call from God to go to certain city of China and do her mission. She sold her house, her husband quit his job, they moved to China. She has always attended the patriotic Catholic Church and received Communion since she has been in China. Some nuns visit her in China do the same.

This is pure information for your reference. Hope it helps.

 

[BobP123]

Truly, this really does help. I almost can’t bear the thought of being more than two weeks without the Eucharist. You have given me another view to appreciate. I am close to wanting to cancel the trip and I need to pray about it a lot first. Your posting is very, very helpful. Thank you.

Need to say a daily spiritual communion then, very much encouraged by the Council of Trent.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I have heard that today, the vast majority of priests and bishops in the Patriotic Church (which has valid but illicit Sacraments as I understand) are secretly in union with Rome. Does anyone else know more about this?

 

[stbruno]

usccb.net/church-updates/UnderstandingRCCinChina.pdf

This is a statement from the USCCB regarding the Roman Catholic church in China.

This definitely is a strictly government regulated church that is persecuted.
More reasons to pray.
Remember, even when the new Pope was being elected there were a couple that could not travel for the vote because they were bishops in secret but named by the Vatican.

Here is also another link about the Catholic church in China.
Please note the bottom mention: Due to the circumstances, little is known. catholic-hierarchy.org/country/cn.html

 

[fin]

i know soemone who plans to go to china.
does that mean he can’t attend Mass there? coz i think he’s there for several months to 1 year.

isn’t there a way to attend Mass?

 

[porthos11]

i know soemone who plans to go to china.
does that mean he can’t attend Mass there? coz i think he’s there for several months to 1 year.

isn’t there a way to attend Mass?

The Patriotic church is not in communion with the Pope. Therefore, the Sunday Mass obligation is not fulfilled there.

Do not even try to look for the underground Church. You may endanger yourself and the local faithful.

Because of that, you can be dispensed from your obligation.

 

[fin]

:crying: i’ll let him know. which means when i want to go and visit, no Mass. double :crying: :crying: :crying:

can’t live without the Mass.

 

[Brendan]

The Patriotic church is not in communion with the Pope. Therefore, the Sunday Mass obligation is not fulfilled there.

Do not even try to look for the underground Church. You may endanger yourself and the local faithful.

Because of that, you can be dispensed from your obligation.

I fully agree. Don’t even attempt to find an underground Church.

If you are really hard pressed, the Embassy of a strong Catholic country (such as Malta or Poland) has a good chance of having a priest on staff. Any Mass there would be licit

But that would only work in Bejing.

 

[porthos11]

:crying: i’ll let him know. which means when i want to go and visit, no Mass. double :crying: :crying: :crying:

can’t live without the Mass.

In which case, all I can say is that you have to get your priorities straight and think twice before visiting countries such as these.

But because it may be too late, have him get his dispensation.

 

[hopefull]

These are very helpful responses, and give rise to a related question. Will I be allowed to bring my bible, spiritual reading and a rosary into China? I believe in some countries in the mid-east these are not allowed. What about wearing my crucifix on a chain? I had not even THOUGHT about such questions until this thread started. Thanks to anyone who knows…

 

[InLight247]

These are very helpful responses, and give rise to a related question. Will I be allowed to bring my bible, spiritual reading and a rosary into China? I believe in some countries in the mid-east these are not allowed. What about wearing my crucifix on a chain? I had not even THOUGHT about such questions until this thread started. Thanks to anyone who knows…

I traveled to China for tourist two years ago. I had my Rosary in my purse with no problem. I don’t remember if I brought my Bible, most likely did.

 

[trentonzero]

You can bring your Bible into China.

Where you might run into problems is bringing in a box full of Bibles, printed in Chinese, with a few thousand copies of religious leaflets.

Specifically, the law says that foreigners can bring in religious materials for personal use.

Seriously though, in the cities like Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Beijing, that have a large enough ‘laowai’ (foreigner) population to support a half decent foreign language bookstore, you can find three or four english translations on the shelf (I bought my KJV and my NJB in Shanghai, along with Dark Night of the Soul and a number of other specifically Christian books).

(EDIT: The only way I could possibly see a problem, and it still seems unlikely to me, but I should mention it, is if you are of Asian descent, so that the customs officials might consider you Chinese. Foreigner does not include ‘foreign born Chinese’. That is a special category. But if you are a blonde haired, blue eyed laowai, they would be more shocked to find out you weren’t Christian than you were. They think all European/N. American people are Christian.)

EDIT: My wife actually gets Hare Krishna and Jehovah’s Witnesses stuff in the mail here, and its very obvious from the envelope that they are religious materials. (She finds these groups fascinating for some reason.) However, neither of these are state recognized religions (the state recognized religions, I believe, are Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, Judiasm, and Buddhism).

 

[fin]

i tried to find more info about Mass in China. i’ve read in a magazine article that there’s this church, Sacred Heart Cathedral in Guangzhou in Guangdong province. i’ved read thre are Masses there and it was said soil was used from Rome to symbolize its link with Rome. that means it is in communion with the Vatican, right?

 

[fin]

another thing, there are Cardinals in china right? how are they able to say Mass there?

 

[trentonzero]

i tried to find more info about Mass in China. i’ve read in a magazine article that there’s this church, Sacred Heart Cathedral in Guangzhou in Guangdong province. i’ved read thre are Masses there and it was said soil was used from Rome to symbolize its link with Rome. that means it is in communion with the Vatican, right?

It’s kinda wonky.

I don’t think there are any Catholic churchs in China fully and openly in communion with the Vatican, but there have been ALOT of bishops that have secretly contacted the Vatican and been reconciled. I think the Vatican has said that about 2/3rds of China’s bishops have approached them privately for reconcilation.

I know the current bishop of Shanghai was approved by the Vatican before being appointed bishop.

At my local church, the priests make no secret of their link to Rome and the Pope. (But Guangxi is also an autonomous region, so they might have a little more freedom than normal provinces like Guangdong).

It’s wonky, but the Church says the sacraments are valid, and my understanding is that most of the priests are good clergy trying to do their jobs despite a government that is unsympathetic (to say the least).

EDIT: You can openly wear your crucifix (the Chinese might not…everyone expects you to be Christian as a foreigner…they might be stigmatized a little if they do). I do. Every now and then someone will look at it close, say “Yesu” (Chinese for Jesus) and bow their heads. No one who has seen it and reacted to it in any way has done so without reverence.

 

[trentonzero]

i tried to find more info about Mass in China. i’ve read in a magazine article that there’s this church, Sacred Heart Cathedral in Guangzhou in Guangdong province. i’ved read thre are Masses there and it was said soil was used from Rome to symbolize its link with Rome. that means it is in communion with the Vatican, right?

Also…some of the churches are old. It is very likely that the Sacred Heart Cathedral is a very old church that managed to survive the Cultural Revolution.