Advice on a college course situation, please

[SmartyPants]

Well, he talked to the chair of the Acct dept–and he said that the previous GA had the same sort of trouble with this class. The chair tried to meet with the advisor yesterday, but the advisor wouldn’t respond to knocking on the door to his office. (Now, the chair knew the advisor was in his office–just trying to pretend that he’s not there or something, I guess.)

So the chair will be speaking with him still, about it. (Via email, 'cause he’s going out of the country on a Fulbright for 3 weeks) If the advisor won’t budge on the independent study–which the chair thought was a great idea–then it will be brought before the chair of the graduate studies, who can override the advisor, I think.

Anyway, the end is in sight. Bf didn’t have to take this class, but did so because he was told to, on the basis that it was Intermediate Algebra (not Calculus…) In any case, bf will drop Quant Apps after today–will still go to class tonight because he’s principled and has only missed class once in his entire college career. (because he was meeting Warren Buffett, which is understandable )

It’s better to have no assistantship and no health insurance, than to have none of the above AND be kicked out of school. But the thing is, everybody loves his research work So, I imagine that they will be very unhappy if bf wasn’t their graduate research assistant anymore.

**It will be awkward turtle with his advisor for the next two years, but it will be worth it. He is considering a CMA instead of a CPA, now, because the requirements are slightly different. But things are much better now, overall **

Good things take time, but bad things happen all at once. But, thank God, it is nearly solved. Thanks so much for all your help. As to the calculus requirements, I guess part of it may be that he did not do his bachelor’s in accounting. I think if you do that route, calculus is required. He did his bachelor’s in history, and then is doing a masters in accounting–which I guess might have a different set of requirements. I’m not sure.

He does not have to deal with awkwardness with his advisor for the next two years–that would be hell on earth! He can get a new advisor!

 

[holly_potter]

It certainly would be hell on earth–but there’s only one advisor for graduates in accounting, here.

And it’s shaping up to hell on earth, because the other tenured professors are afraid to stir up the waters. One had initially said that she would be glad to help bf with his independent study–but pulled out of that today. I think she is afraid of some sort of retaliation from the advisor (who just this year became the advisor to grad acct students–on some sort of power trip now, is what I can figure.)

And the chair of the dept. is on a plane for his Fulbright, for 3 weeks, which does not help matters. He is behind bf on this whole issue, but now he’s gone for a while. There’s always email, but he will be busy. So, my dear bf, if he cannot get another tenured professor to do a independent study, well, he is up a creek without a paddle. I pray that he will be able to get that independent study. But meanwhile, that is presenting the issue of an antagonistic advisor.

But bf just recently found out that the advisor had disclosed some of his academic info to somebody else, without bf’s permission. That is seriously flouting the law here on campus–the privacy act. The man saw no wrong in that, apparently, but bf is seriously concerned about the ethics of the advisor. Bf will be talking with some of the deans about this, dean of the business college, and dean of the graduate college. He desperately does not want to cause trouble, but he is seriously concerned–also because this advisor was illicitly trying to get bf to work on his project under the table. (After bf politely told him no, he had no time to spare this semester, as an excuse, the advisor had significantly been more hostile to bf, to the point of harassment.)

It’s possible that the advisor will be demoted to mere professor again, because of this breach of privacy–it would make office politics a bit difficult still. (Why is it that one man’s action can ruin everything? )

Bf just may still be able to keep his assistantship if he can get a independent study going. But if the office politics get too hostile, he says he wants to avoid harassment and will just have to find a different program. He’s wanted to be an accountant for a long time, because he enjoys the work, and intuitively grasps the concepts and everything. But stupid class, stupid advisor…

It’s not quite over yet, like I had hoped. I really wish I could go give his advisor a chewing out (so does his mom) but don’t worry! We’re not about to do that. It’s just been so difficult.

I realize I must be rambling, and anyway, it is helping me to feel a bit better. When I am a bit more calm, I am very much more able to help bf through this issue. So, thank you, again.

 

[psr13]

I do feel heartfelt sympathy because I chose history as my grad field in part because of no math–1st required course was statistics, thank goodness I married a math major

Not to derail the thread, but history majors are almost always required to take statistics, even in undergrad. I had to for my very poor academic college. However, oftentimes in undergrad the statistics isn’t calculus based. That’s probably different in grad school.

 

[SmartyPants]

It certainly would be hell on earth–but there’s only one advisor for graduates in accounting, here.

And it’s shaping up to hell on earth, because the other tenured professors are afraid to stir up the waters. One had initially said that she would be glad to help bf with his independent study–but pulled out of that today. I think she is afraid of some sort of retaliation from the advisor (who just this year became the advisor to grad acct students–on some sort of power trip now, is what I can figure.)

And the chair of the dept. is on a plane for his Fulbright, for 3 weeks, which does not help matters. He is behind bf on this whole issue, but now he’s gone for a while. There’s always email, but he will be busy. So, my dear bf, if he cannot get another tenured professor to do a independent study, well, he is up a creek without a paddle. I pray that he will be able to get that independent study. But meanwhile, that is presenting the issue of an antagonistic advisor.

But bf just recently found out that the advisor had disclosed some of his academic info to somebody else, without bf’s permission. That is seriously flouting the law here on campus–the privacy act. The man saw no wrong in that, apparently, but bf is seriously concerned about the ethics of the advisor. Bf will be talking with some of the deans about this, dean of the business college, and dean of the graduate college. He desperately does not want to cause trouble, but he is seriously concerned–also because this advisor was illicitly trying to get bf to work on his project under the table. (After bf politely told him no, he had no time to spare this semester, as an excuse, the advisor had significantly been more hostile to bf, to the point of harassment.)

It’s possible that the advisor will be demoted to mere professor again, because of this breach of privacy–it would make office politics a bit difficult still. (Why is it that one man’s action can ruin everything? )

Bf just may still be able to keep his assistantship if he can get a independent study going. But if the office politics get too hostile, he says he wants to avoid harassment and will just have to find a different program. He’s wanted to be an accountant for a long time, because he enjoys the work, and intuitively grasps the concepts and everything. But stupid class, stupid advisor…

It’s not quite over yet, like I had hoped. I really wish I could go give his advisor a chewing out (so does his mom) but don’t worry! We’re not about to do that. It’s just been so difficult.

I realize I must be rambling, and anyway, it is helping me to feel a bit better. When I am a bit more calm, I am very much more able to help bf through this issue. So, thank you, again.

I say this as a college professor… Whether or not the advisor violated the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) depends on who he disclosed that information to. The advisor can disclose academic information to other professors in the department, various deans, and other administrators connected with the university who might reasonably be allowed access to that information. Before he makes any sort of accusation along those lines, I strongly recommend that he makes sure he’s in the right here.

 

[hasikelee]

Wow OP, is your BF going to the university I left…

 

[SmartyPants]

One more thing… he also needs to be careful about the accusation that the advisor tried to get him to work without paying him. Graduate are students frequently asked to work on professors research projects and the only “payment” is often a line about “The success of this research would not have been possible without the capable research assistance of Lowly Graduate Student…” Unless the advisor specifically threatened to harm your BF’s career, and he can prove it, that accusation will go no where and there isn’t a professor in his department who will want to work with him after that!

 

[holly_potter]

Thanks, SmartyPants…you really are worthy of your forum name

I’ve been equally reluctant about this stuff, and have been asking him some questions to help him put it into perspective. He enlisted the help of an ombudsperson, who is also reluctant (part of the job description).

And yep, I’ve been seeing how it could be perfectly legit to talk about his graduate career with another professor–the way the advisor was phrasing it was to make BF look bad. But to to an ombudsperson, it was something to consider, but not say anything about right now.

Same thing for the additional work. The GA coordinator set the hours, and they weren’t exactly allowed to request more hours–possible, but for GAs, it was discouraged that they take on additional jobs unless authorized to do so. The advisor was trying to basically go around the graduate policy.

But still, I’ve been trying to help him put it into perspective, so that it doesn’t look like he’s causing trouble just to cause trouble. And thanks for your guys’ (name removed by moderator)ut, it helps so much.

I’m very glad he enlisted the help of the ombudsperson.

 

[SmartyPants]

I’ve reached the conclusion that the ombudsperson is there to help the university do damage control NOT to help students. If this gets to the department, your BF is TOAST–actually, he’s BURNT TOAST–he should probably start looking for another program now!

I am still a little crisp around the edges from the battle I fought as a graduate student–I ended up getting my PhD from a department ranked twenty place higher than the department I left so my battle worked to my advantage.

 

[holly_potter]

After you said that, SmartyPants, my BF got an email from the department chair. Apparently the ombudsperson was really on top of things, and started talking with all the people involved, including the Graduate Studies dean–and the Grad dean said that BF can drop his class, no problem, he’d keep his assistantship and everything because she gave him a waiver for this semester.

Obviously, we knew that some in the department would not be happy by this, but it was all sorted out, apparently. To keep health insurance, BF’s history professor offered an independent study in History. (That way BF doesn’t have to ruffle any more feathers trying to beg an accounting independent study from his advisor).

So, okay, all seemed solved. But, GRRRR! The accounting people were understandably trying to keep this turmoil within the department, but by bringing in an ombudsperson to cut all the c***, that made them shape up. But obviously, they’re a bit shaken that BF is standing up for himself…and like you said, SmartyPants, they’re a bit afraid that by bringing in an ombudsperson they’re wary of a lawsuit…

So BF went in to work today. He got berated by one of the professors–about what, I’m not sure, but she’s none too happy he brought in an ombudsperson. (She’s on the advisor’s side.) And then the advisor claimed he got a different email saying something else, that BF would lose everything by dropping this class. (Which is not even in his major, I found out–it was one of the suggested classes to fill CPA requirements). He’s going to meet with the Graduate Studies dean and ask her what she actually said. I read both emails, and it sounds like the advisor is trying to stay in control. He’s pretending he still needs to authorize the waiver, when the Graduate Studies dean already authorized it herself.

It’s typical for this university, professors helping students as much as they can. If the student doesn’t think they will be able to pass a class, and wants an independent study (to maintain financial aid, insurance etc…) then they say, Sure! and set it up right away. So, basically, it’s really abnormal that they’re not allowing him to drop this class without penalizing him.

I have no idea why his advisor is causing him so much grief. But I’m familiar with people like his advisor (unfortunately). It’s all some sort of power play–he’s in power, BF isn’t doing things exactly the way he wants it to be done, BF is standing up for himself instead of begging the advisor to have mercy, so the advisor doesn’t actually have the power over BF.

(More information we keep getting, the more I see so many similarities with…well, my dad…(though dad is doing much better now). )

Argh, still rambling on, I’m sure, and it sure must seem like a soap opera to y’all.

Anyway, SmartyPants, BF is seriously considering another program already. He may go back to history–they were disappointed he wasn’t getting a MA in history. Or he may just do a MBA or something in Public Administration. But :crying: why should he change his dreams just because one person has something against him? I really wish I could go and yell at the stupid advisor, but knowing people like him, that only makes things worse.

 

[holly_potter]

So, yep, BF is burned already and getting toastier. Good news is by leaving all of sudden, he’d leave all the professors’ research in limbo for quite awhile. They love his work–he’s efficient, accurate, and knows what they’re looking for. So basically, I still don’t understand why they’re making it difficult for him to keep working for them…

May I ask you about your battle, please, SmartyPants?

 

[SmartyPants]

So, yep, BF is burned already and getting toastier. Good news is by leaving all of sudden, he’d leave all the professors’ research in limbo for quite awhile. They love his work–he’s efficient, accurate, and knows what they’re looking for. So basically, I still don’t understand why they’re making it difficult for him to keep working for them…

May I ask you about your battle, please, SmartyPants?

Basically, the graduate director in my program hated my guts (the feeling was mutual) and after making my life–and the life of every other black student and about half of the white students–miserable, the department ended up bringing in an outside mediator from another university to try calm things down. The mediator was the director of our national governing body’s program to increase diversity in the discipline. The mediator was there for two days, spoke to every professor and graduate student in the program and reached the conclusions that:

(a) There are too many power plays going on in the department. According to our national governing body there were ethical standards that should be in place in every department with respect to the treatment of students; and, those ethical standards were either nonexistent or being ignored in the department.

(b) There was too much alcohol consumption at official department functions (she actually witnessed a light version of this). She felt that they blurred professional lines with their unprofessional behavior at department functions. The lead alcoholic was the woman who hated my guts!

(c) When she finally met with the three African American students (she met with us last) she told me point blank that I must really want a PhD to put up with the **** they were putting me through.

(d) This just ticked off drunkard graduate director more. By the end of the year, she was the chair of the committee grading one of the comprehensive exams I had to take. She deliberately flunked me.

(e) I then applied and transferred to the graduate program the mediator was affiliated with–in the middle of the academic year. When I first got there, another professor told me that the discussion went like this: “if we admit her she’ll have the highest GRE scores in the program and if we admit her she will come.” End of Discussion! My dissertation advisor ended up being the mediator.

(f) Drunkard professor who made my life miserable ended up leaving my old uni after she had an affair (she was married) with another married professor in the department (they both left). She had been trying to move into administration and “the powers” told her NEVER!

(g) After years of seeing half their cohorts leave before finishing the PhD (one time an ENTIRE cohort left), my old university had enough and yanked the graduate program altogether. They now only offer BA’s in that program.

 

[holly_potter]

Holy cow! Thanks for sharing–I’m sorry you had to go through that stuff. But it’s nice to know that he’s not the only one who’ve experienced this sort of situation before.

It sounds very familiar, although it seems to be one person making the power plays (although he seems to also be spreading his dislike for BF to the other professors…the department is now in schism with one another.)

I’m glad the change in program worked wonderfully for you. BF just may have to switch to a different program, too, if this keeps up–the ombudsperson is making the same effect your mediator did. Hopefully the accounting department will shape up–it does not help that the chair is out of the country for 3 weeks.

But it definitely seems to be getting closer to the point of changing programs (though he really wants to be an accountant). Maybe he should quit the assistantship, continue with a CMA (avoids classes with the profs who dislikes him), and work a different part time job. He could probably request a different advisor, too.

I just don’t know. I pray God will help things work out. Thanks so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut, SmartyPants.

 

[holly_potter]

Holy cow! Thanks for sharing–I’m sorry you had to go through that stuff. But it’s nice to know that he’s not the only one who’ve experienced this sort of situation before.

It sounds very familiar, although it seems to be one person making the power plays (although he seems to also be spreading his dislike for BF to the other professors…the department is now in schism with one another.)

I’m glad the change in program worked wonderfully for you. BF just may have to switch to a different program, too, if this keeps up–the ombudsperson is making the same effect your mediator did. Hopefully the accounting department will shape up–it does not help that the chair is out of the country for 3 weeks.

But it definitely seems to be getting closer to the point of changing programs (though he really wants to be an accountant). Maybe he should quit the assistantship, continue with a CMA (avoids classes with the profs who dislikes him), and work a different part time job. He could probably request a different advisor, too.

I just don’t know. I pray God will help things work out. Thanks so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut, SmartyPants.

 

[SmartyPants]

Holy cow! Thanks for sharing–I’m sorry you had to go through that stuff. But it’s nice to know that he’s not the only one who’ve experienced this sort of situation before.

It sounds very familiar, although it seems to be one person making the power plays (although he seems to also be spreading his dislike for BF to the other professors…the department is now in schism with one another.)
I’m glad the change in program worked wonderfully for you. BF just may have to switch to a different program, too, if this keeps up–the ombudsperson is making the same effect your mediator did. Hopefully the accounting department will shape up–it does not help that the chair is out of the country for 3 weeks.

But it definitely seems to be getting closer to the point of changing programs (though he really wants to be an accountant). Maybe he should quit the assistantship, continue with a CMA (avoids classes with the profs who dislikes him), and work a different part time job. He could probably request a different advisor, too.

I just don’t know. I pray God will help things work out. Thanks so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut, SmartyPants.

Unless someone is doing something truly grizzly, professors circle the wagons to protect the department; and, professors who don’t go along, particularly untenured ones, find themselves pariah’s in their own departments. In fact, in would be professional suicide for an untenured professor to buck the department on things like this. This is why rule #1 among graduate students is to never put an untenured professor on your advisory committee!

 

[SmartyPants]

You said that your BF is going back to history. Was he a history major in college and is now trying to get a graduate degree in accounting? What kind of accounting/economics/business background did he have before entering his graduate program? You’ve already told us he did not take Calculus–which is a serious deficiency as most undergraduate accounting/economics/business programs usually require at minimum two semesters of Calculus. With out that quantitative background, even if he gets through this first course, it will be an uphill battle for him to get through more advanced courses.

 

[holly_potter]

He’s not going to history quite yet–he’s going to see how it plays out. I do imagine that it is a fallback option.

And I’m not quite sure the accounting requirements, but it did not need a lot of math at our univ. Even though he’s a history major, he took many classes for fun (took the 5 year path) including several accounting, economics, and statistics classes. with many As. (His lowest score is a B+, ever, in history) Economic majors and masters need to take this Quantative Applications of Economics–a weedout class for those people, is what I hear about it. He only took it because his advisor and the dept chair said he should–even though it is an elective within the program.

So, basically, he was prepared to complete an accounting masters. He is filling out some deficiencies this semester and next–only four courses. The guy who basically set everything up for BF is a senior tenured professor up for retirement soon–really liked BF’s work in his classes, and knew he’d do great as an accountant, gave him the assistantship, and then his term as a Accounting Grad Chair was up, and so the new advisor is the one causing problems.

So, that’s the story of how he went from history to accounting. He’s quite brilliant, one of those who enter college when most are in middle school…but, it seems as if the accounting program really needs to be revised so as to include a couple of courses of calculus. BF is basically caught in the middle of this whole issue. We’re just hoping it will work out in the meantime.

And yeppers about that circle the wagons thing. There’s only one untenured professor, and she’s definitely steering clear of this whole thing. And so BF basically breached the wagon circle by bringing in the ombudsperson. No wonder they’re miffed–but he really wanted to cut through all this monkey business, which wasn’t about to happen on its own.

I really do appreciate all of your (name removed by moderator)ut, SmartyPants. It helps to have somebody who’s gone through this offer insights of experience.

 

[SmartyPants]

He’s not going to history quite yet–he’s going to see how it plays out. I do imagine that it is a fallback option.

And I’m not quite sure the accounting requirements, but it did not need a lot of math at our univ. Even though he’s a history major, he took many classes for fun (took the 5 year path) including several accounting, economics, and statistics classes. with many As. (His lowest score is a B+, ever, in history) Economic majors and masters need to take this Quantative Applications of Economics–a weedout class for those people, is what I hear about it. He only took it because his advisor and the dept chair said he should–even though it is an elective within the program.

So, basically, he was prepared to complete an accounting masters. He is filling out some deficiencies this semester and next–only four courses. The guy who basically set everything up for BF is a senior tenured professor up for retirement soon–really liked BF’s work in his classes, and knew he’d do great as an accountant, gave him the assistantship, and then his term as a Accounting Grad Chair was up, and so the new advisor is the one causing problems.

So, that’s the story of how he went from history to accounting. He’s quite brilliant, one of those who enter college when most are in middle school…but,** it seems as if the accounting program really needs to be revised so as to include a couple of courses of calculus.** BF is basically caught in the middle of this whole issue. We’re just hoping it will work out in the meantime.

And yeppers about that circle the wagons thing. There’s only one untenured professor, and she’s definitely steering clear of this whole thing. And so BF basically breached the wagon circle by bringing in the ombudsperson. No wonder they’re miffed–but he really wanted to cut through all this monkey business, which wasn’t about to happen on its own.

I really do appreciate all of your (name removed by moderator)ut, SmartyPants. It helps to have somebody who’s gone through this offer insights of experience.

It’s possible that they rarely get graduate students who didn’t have a traditional background in accounting/economics/business so there was no need to have it as a pre-req since most undergraduate programs require Calculus. Didn’t you say that your BF and one other person in the class are the only two who came in without Calculus?

I know my PhD program required statistics in the BA program. Students who came in wih deficiencies in statistics had to use their time to catch up before taking the required graduate statistics course the second semester.

What this is likely going to do is completely close the door to their graduate program to students who do not come in with a traditional business background.

 

[holly_potter]

I think so too–will probably require them to have some sort of business degree now.

Anyway, working with the ombudsperson has helped BF so much. He has decided to make a mid-semester leap from accounting to history–he’s just formally sending in the application papers, but all the old history folks over there (including the ombudsperson who is also the advisor for graduate students) are glad to have him back. BF thinks they were gently trying to tell him that accounting wouldn’t work, when they were encouraging him to get a MA in History.

The switch will happen very soon, once the papers are processed. That way BF can drop said Quant Apps, add History Independent Study, and keep insurance. He’s going to honor his accounting assistantship through the end of the semester (unless acct advisor acts up again) and resign in December. In short, he will be free! By going out of the department for the ombudsperson, he was able to get right through to a solution, and make the department people behave. Because of the ombudsperson, they have to behave cordially to BF. Otherwise, BF has the ability to bring in the ombudsperson again. He has a tape recorder, too, in case his ACCT advisor is giving him grief again.

He was telling me last night while writing his essay for admission, that it feels right, now that he’s going back to history. He enjoyed writing all the research papers and he’s far better at that then at accounting homework. (He understood the material, but it’s the actual accounting that’s the trick sometimes.)

So, yes, he won’t have an assistantship, and he says he will be cashing in some of his savings bonds for school. He possibly will be able to do a mid-year history or university-wide assistantship, it depends on what is still open. (He has an aversion to loans, but is considering it if necessary.) So, money will be worked out, eventually.

I am so relieved now that he’s going back into history, and that he is happy with the outcome of the whole debacle. Thanks for all of your support It was very much appreciated. And thanks so much, SmartyPants–because of what you said, I encouraged BF when he was considering going back into history It truly is the only long term solution in cases like these.

 

[Pax_Vobiscum_57]

A study group is also a very good idea. My son has improved his grades greatly by joining study groups.

Keeping him in my prayers. I don’t even know how to balance a checkbook.

 

[holly_potter]

Thanks, Pax! Nowadays students at our college do study groups in the form of emailing each other questions, so that helps, too. So funny how that works–we’re a commuter school so it’s really hard to work out schedules much of the time.

And thanks for your prayers He can use it to get through the next 10 weeks of this semester. (and thank goodness he knows how to balance a checkbook! He is also helping me fill out a 1040 come January–so, handy to have a former accounting student as a BF )