Advice on Altar Piece/Art

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Hello,

This picture below contains an image of a piece of art that is directly above the altar at the parish I attend.

pinterest.com/pin/432204895461270907/

To me this is problematic in so many ways! I am considering my options and arguments, as I plan on approaching our pastor to possibly start the ball rolling on replacing it with a crucifix. We are fairly new to the parish, as we have decided for various reasons to attend other parishes in the area in the past. But we have lived in the area for many years. Now the parish has two great priests, and we are attending mass here, but I fear that some of the parishioners who have been around the parish for a while like this image. I think trying to replace this will be very controversial, but worth the effort and difficulties.

So - I would like honest feedback. I have a litany of reasons why the image is not suitable for Holy Mass. What do you think of the image/piece of art? What does it look like? Do you think it’s beautiful and worthy of being above the altar? How would you go about approaching a pastor about replacing it, and what arguments for its removal do you have? Looking for ideas and support!

(Also - if you like the image, let me know. I don’t want to assume everyone dislikes it, and I want to be mindful of other’s tastes…to a point).

Thanks,

Jesse
 
I’m confused. The link took me to a PAGE-ful of images. Are you referring to the photo on the top left, which looks like a face emerging out of (sorry) some branches, or something?

If that’s the one, I think it is too distracting. I don’t think we’re supposed to battle with our priests, so I advise you to choose your battles wisely. This time, let it go. If it’s unpopular, let somebody else take the lead.

I intensely dislike THIS image: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Henry_Ossawa_Tanner_-_The_Annunciation.jpg

There was a priest who was “in love” with this picture and had it commissioned as a textile and hung in a public chapel. I dislike it, because it is so non-biblical, in representing an angel as this intense beam of light. and, then, it puts the Virgin on a messy bed. It is categorically misleading at the least to even suggest that the incarnation occurred on a bed. Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by an act on a bed.

Back to your picture. I’m still confused. I don’t even understand it.
 
Thanks for your response! Sorry, my link takes me straight to the picture. To clarify - yes it is the image of a face and a hand coming through wisps of metal. I believe it is supposed to be the Ascension. Which is a problem since Jesus rose and ascended BODILY. And I see no wounds on His hand.

As far as wether I should let it go…it will be tough for me to let it go! Also our bishop and priest do not like the image. It’s the leadership of the parish who may like it…
 
That image would bother me…
I have no idea what it is supposed to be…
 
psalm90 said:
I’m confused. The link took me to a PAGE-ful of images. Are you referring to the photo on the top left, which looks like a face emerging out of (sorry) some branches, or something?

If that’s the one, I think it is too distracting. I don’t think we’re supposed to battle with our priests, so I advise you to choose your battles wisely. This time, let it go. If it’s unpopular, let somebody else take the lead.

I intensely dislike THIS image: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Henry_Ossawa_Tanner_-_The_Annunciation.jpg

There was a priest who was “in love” with this picture and had it commissioned as a textile and hung in a public chapel. I dislike it, because it is so non-biblical, in representing an angel as this intense beam of light. and, then, it puts the Virgin on a messy bed. It is categorically misleading at the least to even suggest that the incarnation occurred on a bed. Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by an act on a bed.

Back to your picture. I’m still confused. I don’t even understand it.
Click to expand...
I actually like this. Maybe not hanging in church, but it is thought provoking, which is what art is intended to do, after all. 😉
 
bowerj1 said:
Hello,

This picture below contains an image of a piece of art that is directly above the altar at the parish I attend.

pinterest.com/pin/432204895461270907/

To me this is problematic in so many ways! I am considering my options and arguments, as I plan on approaching our pastor to possibly start the ball rolling on replacing it with a crucifix. We are fairly new to the parish, as we have decided for various reasons to attend other parishes in the area in the past. But we have lived in the area for many years. Now the parish has two great priests, and we are attending mass here, but I fear that some of the parishioners who have been around the parish for a while like this image. I think trying to replace this will be very controversial, but worth the effort and difficulties.

So - I would like honest feedback. I have a litany of reasons why the image is not suitable for Holy Mass. What do you think of the image/piece of art? What does it look like? Do you think it’s beautiful and worthy of being above the altar? How would you go about approaching a pastor about replacing it, and what arguments for its removal do you have? Looking for ideas and support!

(Also - if you like the image, let me know. I don’t want to assume everyone dislikes it, and I want to be mindful of other’s tastes…to a point).

Thanks,

Jesse
Click to expand...
I tried 3 times to view it. Sorry, link doesn’t work right for me.
 
There is a church in Florida which has a modernistic mural, of a group of people, a bit larger than life size, in what might be described as Jewish robes and veils, facing the congregation

Except…

One of the women in the group is graphically breast feeding a baby.

Yeah, I know, that has been depicted in Italian art, for example, centuries ago. But, I just don’t like to have our noses rubbed in such “art” in a place of worship.

And, look at the nudity in the art in the Sistine Chapel. I would never step into the place. Does that illustrate the acceptable dress code for that place?
 
bowerj1 said:
Hello,

This picture below contains an image of a piece of art that is directly above the altar at the parish I attend.

pinterest.com/pin/432204895461270907/

To me this is problematic in so many ways! I am considering my options and arguments, as I plan on approaching our pastor to possibly start the ball rolling on replacing it with a crucifix. We are fairly new to the parish, as we have decided for various reasons to attend other parishes in the area in the past. But we have lived in the area for many years. Now the parish has two great priests, and we are attending mass here, but I fear that some of the parishioners who have been around the parish for a while like this image. I think trying to replace this will be very controversial, but worth the effort and difficulties.

So - I would like honest feedback. I have a litany of reasons why the image is not suitable for Holy Mass. What do you think of the image/piece of art? What does it look like? Do you think it’s beautiful and worthy of being above the altar? How would you go about approaching a pastor about replacing it, and what arguments for its removal do you have? Looking for ideas and support!

(Also - if you like the image, let me know. I don’t want to assume everyone dislikes it, and I want to be mindful of other’s tastes…to a point).

Thanks,

Jesse
Click to expand...
Would the name of your parish happen to be Ascension?

What do I think about you approaching the pastor to remove it? Bad idea.

What do I think of the piece of art? I kinda like it.

What do I think about you approaching the pastor and asking the history of the artwork and asking to learn more about it? Yes, good idea.

If there isn’t a crucifix in the sanctuary anywhere, suggest adding one, free standing, hanging above the altar, etc. but I bet there IS a crucifix somewhere in the sanctuary.
 
Oh, wow.

Very distracting. I could not go to mass there I don’t think. 😊
 
Boomerang - thank you for posting the pic. That’s it.

1ke - our parish is St. Mary (although the image would make slightly more sense if we were called Ascension parish 🙂

As far as wether it’s worth approaching the pastor about changing…the pastor does not like the image. The hard part is that he is busy with many other issues, and this change may not be easy. BUT it really is distracting for my family and kids (and a good number of fellow parishioners agree). Many people say that the church doesn’t “feel Catholic” when you enter it. And that the image doesn’t “look like Jesus”. Kids ask “who is that?” and I think it actually scares some. I am pondering if it’s worth the fight…to me the image is so distracting and inappropriate that it merits the work. Or at least an attempt. We do not want to change parishes.

Also, this from the GIRM:

“308. Likewise, either on the altar or near it, there is to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, a cross clearly visible to the assembled people. It is desirable that such a cross should remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations, so as to call to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord.” We have a very small gold cross that is present at mass, but that barely satisfies the requirement above.

Thanks everyone for your responses, from those who like it as well. Keep them coming! I really appreciate all responses and value the discussion 🙂
 
I think it is quite striking. I would not tend to call it an alter piece because it is not on the alter, but above and behind the priest. To me an alter piece would be ON the alter. While it may be distracting to some it does draw your attention to the Risen Christ. I would rather be “distracted” by the sculpture-and that is what it is-than by some of the stuff going on in the pews. Just my opinion. Peace.
 
This is sacred art

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I am not going to say it would be my choice. On the other hand. there are times we need to be moved out of our comfort zone, and there are many, many images, structures, etc. which are less than to the liking of some of the parishioners in various churches. There are also times we are so |“in” our comfort zone that we “zone out”. It is things which do not fit in our comfort zone that can make us work, rather than glide along, with our spiritual life.

My parish has an agitator also. We have the Risen Christ as a statue suspended on the wall behind the altar - my guess is it is about 12 feet tall. It is a church in the half-round, and that Risen Christ really gets under this individual’s skin. He started off about it with me, implying that it was somehow a mistake of the 70’s and a watering down of the Crucifixion and the faith, and then went on to say that it was disturbing because of the loss of faith.

That loss of faith had nothing to do with what is on our wall; the loss of faith had multiple sources, among which was the extremely poor catechesis of the 70’s (and my recollection was that the church - and statue - did not exist until the 80’s) and societal changes.

Oh - and I might mention that our parish has produced 5 priests, 2 seminarians, 2 Sisters, and 2 deacons and has had Perpetual Adoration for 20+ years.

What I really wanted to challenge our agitator with was the question: “How many crucifixes do we need in the Sanctuary during Mass?”

Why? Because there is a crucifix on the altar during Mass; there is one on the tabernacle, and there is the processional crucifix in the sanctuary during Mass, behind the ambo by the back wall to the right of the tabernacle. That is three, if anyone is counting.

He has been in our parish longer than you have been in yours, but he, too, is relatively new.

And at the bottom of it all, your parishioners were the ones who provided the money to build the church and obtain the art. It may not have fit everyone when it was built, but you are going in as a fairly new parishioner telling everyone near and far they are wrong. It would not surprise me in the least if other parishioners suggested (I put it politely) that you find another parish if it bugs you so much.

And did Archbishop Sample tell the parish he did not like it? Or was that a specific answer to a specific question you or another put to him? He has not struck me as a bishop who is going to micro manage the art work of each parish, but perhaps he has spoken publicly?

And if he has not spoken publicly, did he say that you or whomever he addressed the matter to were to make his private comments public? The same question goes for the pastor - private or public comment, and if private, has he given permission to repeat his private comment?

If it truly bothers you so much you cannot adequately attend Mass, there are several parishes in Corvallis, one in Scio, Sublimity, Stayton, Jefferson, Independence, Monroe, Aumsville Sweet Home, and 2 in Salem. Some are going to be a longer trip than others, but I currently drive about 45 minutes to go to the one I attend regularly.
 
Casilda said:
This is sacred art

https://catholicismpure.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/tumblr_m4n1u6w73g1rrutr7o1_5003.jpg
Click to expand...
You are correct that what you posted is sacred art; and so is the work on the Sistine Chapel, the wall of St. Mary’sc in Albany, Oregon, the Risen Christ in my parish, what has been labeled the "John Paul 2 crucifix (which some have expressed a dislike for) and many other paintings and statues.

It may well be that you appreciate very much what you posted; but neither your taste in religious art nor mine are the defining terms of what is or is not religious or sacred art.

I have seen sacred art which I thought was awesome and breath taking, some that I thought was maudlin and sappy, and some, for lack of a better term, that I would label “outre”.

I remember the first time I went into the cathedral of St Mary of the Assumption in San Francisco. I thought it was stunning, breath taking. Later, in talking with others, I found some whose politest comment was to refer to it as Our Mother Mary Maytag (look at a picture of the exterior).

Personal tastes differ. Using our personal taste to define what is or is not sacred art is myopic at best.
 
psalm90 said:
I’m confused. The link took me to a PAGE-ful of images. Are you referring to the photo on the top left, which looks like a face emerging out of (sorry) some branches, or something?

If that’s the one, I think it is too distracting. I don’t think we’re supposed to battle with our priests, so I advise you to choose your battles wisely. This time, let it go. If it’s unpopular, let somebody else take the lead.

I intensely dislike THIS image: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Henry_Ossawa_Tanner_-_The_Annunciation.jpg

There was a priest who was “in love” with this picture and had it commissioned as a textile and hung in a public chapel. I dislike it, because it is so non-biblical, in representing an angel as this intense beam of light. and, then, it puts the Virgin on a messy bed. It is categorically misleading at the least to even suggest that the incarnation occurred on a bed. Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by an act on a bed.

Back to your picture. I’m still confused. I don’t even understand it.
Click to expand...
I rather like it (the Annunciation painting).

I wouldn’t necessarily put it in a chapel, but neither would I say that it’s inappropriate for one. I would certainly have it in the rectory living room or parish hall.

The Virgin Mary is seated on a bed. A bed clearly too small for more than one person. So, if anything, the bed in the painting expresses her Virginity.

Is there any reason to think that at the actual Annunciation & Incarnation, the Blessed Mother was specifically not-seated on a bed? What sort of expertise or insight do you have that you know the circumstances of the Annunciation, when such are unknown to anyone else? Only the Gospels of Matthew and Luke record the Annunciation and neither indicate a specific location.

In Exodus, God Himself appeared as a pillar of fire. Do you also think that’s non-biblical?

You may like or dislike art as it pleases you…

But to say that something is non-biblical or inaccurate just because you personally dislike it is very self-centered.

Quite frankly, the more I look at it and the more detail I see, the more I like it.
 
I don’t think that you are really in a position now to do anything about the sculpture, but as you get to know people, etc, you may end up in a better position to do something. Until then, pray and get your children to pray about it.
 
boomerang said:
Funny, that’s my favorite painting of The Annunciation. 😃

http://rlv.zcache.com/annunciation_...d598a4e8aaa7e79948b33dcbb_xd9ct_8byvr_512.jpg
Click to expand...
The more I look at it, the more I like it.

The bulge in the carpet. Is that the Serpent lurking there, waiting to “strike at her heel?” The same one She will strike on his head.

What’s the meaning of the red cloth?

I would like to read an explanation of the various meanings depicted there.

Yes, the more I look at it, the more I do like it.
 
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